Talk:The Wind That Shakes the Barley (film)

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1 Incredibly poignant
2 A Great Job
3 Simon Heffer
4 Reaction in England
5 External Links
6 songs

[edit] Incredibly poignant

A group of us saw this yesterday. Amazingly moving stuff. Flawless. You couldn't really blame the British media and cinema owners for, in effect, censoring it. 193.1.172.163 17:12, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

I agree. An excellent film. It makes you think too. I wonder about the politics of it. Loach's sympathies are clearly against the 'Free Staters' towards the end of the film but I wonder how I would have reacted if I had been there at the time. Not accept the Free State and partition would have meant the Civil War continuing to this very day. And sooner or later the whole of Ireland will become one as the Catholics are outbreeding the Protestants in the North. In 20-30 years time the Catholics will be the majority in the 6 counties. What will the Orangemen do then? (I write as a Englishman btw)SmokeyTheFatCat 10:36, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

Great film!! It was very moving. Makes you wonder when the wars would ever end. But i do side with the Free Staters. In my mind, the other camp is too idealistic and radical. Like fundamentalist. There will always be a compromise!!

Tremendous! What I particularly liked was that Loach doesn't tell you how to think, as evidenced by the comments above. You can understand the rational behind the Republican's and the Free-Staters position, portrayed so tragically, personally and movingly in the conflict between the two brothers. The very fact that right-wing commentators in GB lambasted it (some before they's even seen it!) tells you, you gotta see this film! Camillus (talk) 20:08, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Great movie. There was a rapturous round of applause in the theatre in France here last night... there's definately material there for a part 2. --Wmcnamara 14:19, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Actually I think he crammed too much into the film - the was material for three films in it and my only other critisism with the film was that the scene in the room when they were discussing the treaty was very staged. Apart from that it was a very good film. Vintagekits 15:22, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

I havn't seen it yet, but will this Thursday. I've heard it's heavilly biased to please the massive Irish-American market. But we shall see! Logica 04:02, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] A Great Job

Spot on, matches what I've learnt about those times and the tales of my Grandparents and their chums who were in the flying columns. There was a lot left out, like the fracturing of the country into soviets and the local currencies, but what was in the film was accurate. Many a religious man was excommunicated by the Church and many never returned even later when the Church "took back" the excommunication.

PS All the actors were from Cork, so saying the corkonian accents weren't accurate is frankly rubbish. 83.70.231.135 12:15, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Something to point out is the Black and Tans were mostly played ex-British Solders. Ken Loach says this in the DVD commentary. --Internet Nerd 20:46, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Simon Heffer

Does anyone have a direct link to Heffer's article about this film? I can't find it on the Telegraph site, and the reference given points to a completely different article. 217.155.20.163 19:16, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Hmmm...if you look at the linked page, the second item is "Black is white in northern Ireland", but for some reason this link no longer works (it used to, I can vouch for that)- at the bottom of the page, you can still see the comments replying to Heffer's "review" of the film, but there is no longer any sign of the article. I know that newspapers do archive their pages from time to time, I guess this is what's happened. I suppose the reference will just have to be changed to "Black is white in northern Ireland", Simon Heffer, Daily Telegraph, June 3, 2006... Camillus (talk) 20:27, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Reaction in England

My brothers girlfriend is English and when she saw it her words were "It's good to see this because we never learnt about Irish history". I think that English people should see this just to show that their history wasn't all tea and crumpets and valiant wars against evil empires like Nazi Germany and that the British Empire itself was a very oppressive and evil empire itself. Irish Catholics were subdued and brutalized every since the arrival of Oliver Cromwell (another celebrated as a hero) in the 15th century until the day they left. As for the treaty, although it was elected many of those elected FOR it out of fear that the British would return. The boundary commission was meant to be temporary and was to be reviewed a year later, it wasn't reviewed until Good Friday 1998. Having an election with the backdrop of impending fear and terror is never going to be a fair one.

Erm, please don't patronise me on my history. Furthermore, the fact that you are referring to the "English" suggests it is you who need a history lesson... This is Wikipedia, a place of FACTS not for spurious comments like the above. Take it to a trashy message board, buddy. Logica 03:56, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

I would have to agree, this is a discussion on the film not the events of people like Cromwell and Churchill. However, there is a valid point to be made because I do personally know that the topic of the Irish War Of Independence and results of it is not dealt with in nearly enough detail in English history lessons which I believe is the point made

I know, we didn't do any of it in history at school. But this is an argument that comes up again and again about all sorts of 'important' historical events. What do you reccomend we leave out? The Holocaust, then First World War, Hiroshima and Nagasaki, the Cold War, the Russian Revolution, the French Revolution (...etc)??? It's easy enough to say it "should" be included, but you've got to push some other event aside that will make some other people unhappy. Logica 12:57, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

I personally believe that the Irish war of Independance is indeed nt thought at all outside of Ireland. As is the Great Famine for that matter. The Irish were brutalized for 8 centuries by the empire and it's true that atrocities committed by the empire are not thaught. Nor are the atrocities by the republicans thaught here in Ireland. After all, history is written by the victors. As a scout I know what our first chief scout did in the Boer war and I know what the British empire did during Ireland's war of independance but I believe a topic about a movie is not the right place to discuss it. It's just a movie that romanticises a view most Irish at the time did not have. Most Irishmen wanted to go back to Home Rule or a greater independance within the empire. The movie shows great support for the Republicans where as an active member of the republican movement I can tell you there was not, and still isn't a great support for a socialist republic in Ireland which is the goal of the IRA and the Republican movement. Jorgenpfhartogs 21:58, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Ok, but this isn't the place to be discussing all of this. These are somewhat dubious sentances that deserve no place in a factual encycloedia. As I've said above - there are plenty of message boards and chat rooms where you can express your belief. Logica 15:27, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Having been thought History in Ireland I can assure you that there is no illusions painted that all the IRA fighters were romantics. That being said, the tales of the Black and Tans are not fabrications and the stories have credible sources. It was a brutal war but it is very much in the past. In this day and age bitterness is absolutely stupid and carried only by common thugs who wanted something to give out about. I can't speak for Northern Nationalists but the state of the Republic's economy owes a great debt to the English people and their Economic policies towards Ireland. If you are asking which topics should be left out of English History curriculum I would say none but they could be shortened down to address the history of British Rule in Ireland. (FearSneachta 09:22, 21 November 2006 (UTC))

I think that "Logica" does not appreciate the seriousness of the for said film. You are right this is an encyclopedia, and with that it is fact that the British army did commit attrocities against inocent Irish people in the Anglo-Irish which are far from forgotten. However having been thought History in school and continuing it in University I can say without a shadow of a doubt that it is not biased or "Anglo-phobic". We do learn about IRA attrocities, and as regards that a great majority of Irish people are somewhat Jaundiced about the IRA and Sinn Féin. By the way "Logica" it's not your history, especially if you're a plastic paddy! ([User:roryf1|roryf1)] 16:12, 11 February 2007 (UTC))

[edit] External Links

Links were removed for the following reasons:

[8] - International Marxist Tendency: decided to keep one article from Socialist Worker - section too loaded with Marxist reviews otherwise
The Wind that Shakes the Barley on Britfilms.com: better link is the Internet Films Database, which is what most other film articles on Wikipedia link to in this section
"The most powerful film I've seen" - review from An Phoblacht, 1 June 2006: solid reason: requires registration to see it
Interview with Ken Loach about the film from Socialist Worker, 10th June 2006: already one link to the Socialist Worker - do not want to bias the section
"Powerful portrayal of rebel Cork" - review from An Phoblacht, 22 June 2006: solid reason: requires registration to see it
Black & Tans were "no angels" - major concession by Loach critics! - An Phoblacht, 6 July 2006: solid reason: requires registration to see it
review from the website of Socialist Democracy (Ireland), 23 July 2006: already have a link to a socialist review of the film - do not want to bias the section
"Loach: The Coronation Street Of Class Struggle" - review from Soundtracksforthem/Indymedia Ireland, July 1 2006: site is not really noteworthy

This section could do with some other external links to balance out the socialist analysis that is already there in the one article linked to the Socialist Worker. Logica 02:01, 20 November 2006 (UTC)