Talk:The Shadow

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Does anyone know what the radio drama linked in the "Listen to" section has to do with The Shadow? As far as I can tell it's just a random soap opera type deal with nothing to do crime fighting or anything. Gnos 23:04, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Hey, someone mention his armament too.

(Most have assumed this power was hypnotism, while some have argued for Qi.)

actually, the shadow has said repeatedly to his qarry that he clouded there minds with hypnotism.

For a period of 6 or 7 or 8 years, I'm not entirely sure which, The Shadow Magazine was actually published twice a month. Which is why the numbers don't quite match up in regards to (sic) '325 stories a month for 20 years'. So at the height of his popularity The Shadow had a weekly radio show, two monthly pulp-fiction magazines, a monthly comic-book and a weekly comic-strip.

Contents 1 Dunninger as role model 2 Copyright issues 3 hiding and nearly invisible 4 Signature line 5 Ownership edits 6 Title ("The")

[edit] Dunninger as role model

Mentalist Joseph Dunninger, friend of magician Harry Houdini and of The Shadow author Gibson, is said to have been a model for The Shadow (and is named as such in de.wikipedia.org). Shouldn't we fit this piece of information in somehwere? Gwyndon 03:51, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Copyright issues

Someone should write something up about the copyright issues surrounding the Shadow (and Doc Savage) pulps--how they were assumed to be in the public domain and have been made available on-line, except that they really were renewed and so aren't, and now the main site making them available on-line is being sued by Conde Nast, the copyright owner.

The information to be found in the story and reader comments here would be a good place to start. --Robotech_Master 14:32, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

I agree 100%. Ownership is a FACT relevant to the characters and should be included in their enclyclopedia entry. 69.182.106.50 19:48, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] hiding and nearly invisible

In part, that new incarnation was born of necessity; radio's time constraint made it difficult to describe the Shadow hiding and nearly invisible.

This sentence wants a bit of editing for coherency. What is the last clause supposed to say? "made it difficult to describe the Shadow's ability to hide so he would be nearly invisible"? --68.158.65.87 23:53, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Signature line

This article gives the Intro line as "Who know what evil lurks in the hearts of men". This is the line from the recent movie. The actual line from the classic radio shows is "Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of MAN" —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 210.54.198.159 (talk • contribs).

Well, Google claims only 183 sites used the "man" version, but ~36,800 for "men," including a few commercial sites selling recordings of the original radio program [1] [2] [3] [4]

I wouldn't have said anything, but there's a recording from the intro. Sounds like "men" to me.

Oh, sign posts on talk pages. You can do this automatically with four tildes (~). JordeeBec 16:23, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ownership edits

See Talk:Bran Mak Morn#Ownership edits. Nareek 12:23, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Title ("The")

Per Wikipedia:Naming conventions and Wikipedia:Naming conventions (definite and indefinite articles at beginning of name), this article's title really ought to be changed. I would suggest Shadow (character) because the Shadow has been in so many media. --Chris Griswold (☎☓) 23:35, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Given the structure of the article, and the various "Naming conventions" guidelines, I agree the article needs either a name change or a re-writ to focus on the show. The name change seems the easier route at this point. — J Greb 01:10, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

The character's name has never been stated without the definite article preceeding it: unlike the guise of Bruce Wayne who is sometimes referred to as "Batman" and sometimes as "The Batman", the guise of Kent Allard (in the pulps) and Lamont Cranston (on the radio) is never "Shadow", but always "The Shadow". The article title is exactly as it should be. -- Davidkevin 15:04, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

In the pulps, as the original, printed source material, and in verifiable secondary refrence works is it always "The Shadow", regardless of where it falls in the sentence, when referring to the character? Never "the Shadow"? — J Greb 22:34, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

While the 't' in "the" may or may not always be capitalized, the point is that the definite article is always used. A character may say "That was Batman," or may say "That was The Batman," or "That was Green Lantern, or "That was the Green Lantern," but always would say either "That was the Shadow" or "That was The Shadow." -- Davidkevin 15:58, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

WP:NCD 1 & 2 apply here. -- Davidkevin 16:06, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Actually WP:NCD point 1 is exactly why I asked the question. Based on the answer you gave, "the" in this case is not always capitalized in running text when discussing the character. As such the convention would be to drop it from the article title.

As to point 2... If this article was primarily about the pulps, radio show, and/or films, then an argument could, and should, be made that the title of the article is reflective of the title of a work. As the article stands though, the lead start off by defining it as a character article.

That's why I originally commented that either the article name needs to change, as proposed, or the article needs to be rewritten so that the lead section, and the overall tone, focuses on the works not the character.

— J Greb 18:03, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

The fact that you're so insistent on making this change causes me to infer that you're fairly ignorant about the character. Wikipedia rules are to facilitate accuracy, not impede it. The character, the radio program, the pulp magazine, have all always been "the Shadow", capitalized or not. Nobody in any of the stories, radio or print, ever calls him "Shadow" without the definite article, no fan I've ever met in 35 years of fannish activity has ever called him "Shadow" without the definite article, and the title of the magazine is The Shadow Magazine (as compared to, for example, Doc Savage Magazine from the same publisher). -- Davidkevin 03:32, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Bad assumption. Very, very bad assumption.

Just because someone looks at the guidelines, how they are applied, and how this article is presented does not mean that they lack knowledge or understanding about the subject.

I said it was an inference, based on your insistence on disincluding the "The" in the name, as it seems to me that anyone who knows anything about the character would know it's required. I don't claim infallibility, and no offense was intended. -- Davidkevin 02:10, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

I'm going to try an be as clear on this as I can: this article states, at the top in it's lead, that it is about the Shadow as a character.

The guidelines seem crystal clear that in the case of an article about and titled for a character, "the" gets dropped from the character's name.

They are also just as clear that if an article is about and titled for a work, and "The" is part of the work's title, "The" is to be part of the article's title.

Since this article presents itself as about the character, one of three things should be done:

*Changing the title of the article to follow the convention of the guidelines;

*Edit the article's lead to make it clear that the article is about a work or body of works;

or

*A good, solid reason needs to be shown as to why this article is an exception to the guidelines.

Looking at those options, I'd rather see the lead tweaked to move the primary focus off of the character. That seems the least disruptive way to address the discrepancy.

— J Greb 04:32, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Change the lead. David is correct that "The" is a vital part of the name and J Greb is correct about the guidelines. While this could be a case for Ignore all rules, adjusting the lead should satisfy everybody. CovenantD 06:06, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Changing the lead works for me. -- Davidkevin 02:10, 4 March 2007 (UTC)