Talk:The Rape of the Lock

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Point to consider: the titles is given as 'The Rape of the Lock' in most sources (also in the wiki entry on Pope) - but the article title misses 'The' - maybe rename this entry to 'The Rape of the Lock'?

Another point: most sorces, including the external links on this page indicate that the moon Ariel is named after the sprit in "The Tempest." This page http://www.indwes.edu/Faculty/bcupp/solarsys/Names.htm from the IAU corroborates.

I am highly dubious about Ariel being named for the Tempest character. Ariel was named at the same time as Umbriel, and there is an Ariel in The Rape of the Lock. Another Tempest moon wasn't added until Miranda was discovered a century later. Lassell naming two moons at the same time "Ariel" and "Umbriel" seems to me a pretty strong indication that he was naming both after Pope, unless someone can find a very specific source which says otherwise. john k 15:38, 4 May 2005 (UTC)

That is to say, I think the IAU is wrong. john k 15:41, 4 May 2005 (UTC)

And by "very specific source" I mean a source which is more than a passing reference. Obviously, if an authoritative source like the IAU got it wrong, a lot of other sources would copy that. john k 15:46, 4 May 2005 (UTC)

Rape of the Lock may have been written in jest, but from a contemporary feminist perspective it can hardly be classified as simply a satire on the misplaced values of the 18th century British upper class. No. This text is trivializes female violation, and the term rape, although can be used to refer to that which is taken away, has also been used as a noun for sexual assault from as early as the 13th century. Pope cannot have been blind to these implications, and to suggest that the poem mocks the triviality of the upper class is to ignore Pope's own trivialization of female violation. (Emily Evans, another irritated English student)

Emily, please remember that while a feminist reading of a work of literature is certainly a valid reading take care not to have it cloud your judgement. Recall that English is a language constantly in motion. English changes daily. This is often why Shakespeare and Pope are nearly inaccessable to information age students(that's us)... the language has changed. Rape today is used to define a sexual violation. In Pope's time it could also be used as something akin to a kidnapping or theft... and used this way by the upper class. Think of it as a violation not of one's person(the way we would today with a rapist forcing himself on a woman), but rather a violation of one's property. To be "irritated" is your prerogative... just keep things in perspective. Satire is trivialization. If you are morally outraged... I'm afraid you've read it far too literally than it was intended. Swift's satire Gulliver's Travels(not it's real title) trivializes the religious conflicts between Catholics and Anglicans(and all religious conflicts in general) when Gulliver meets the Lilliputians. The IRA and Ulster Volunteer Force that their decades of strife is trivial. Explain how the Reformation(and the wars fought over it) were trivial... then there are the Crusades to consider. Satire holds up all folly... everything humans do which is silly or counterproductive(terrorism or war or conflict of any kind could fall under this definition)... all of this is fodder for satire. Rape is evil. Feminism is good and valid. Just remember that it is satire. Robert Sterner(English Instructor)

For John Kenney... Ariel (moon) is named after the character from The Tempest and not Pope's Ariel according to United States Geological Survey (USGS) and the International Astronomical Union Working Group for Planetary System Nomenclature (WGPSN). This link will take you to their page. http://planetarynames.wr.usgs.gov/append7.html Robert Sterner

see Talk:Sylph about the accuracy of the point that "Pope ... introduces an entire system of 'sylphs', or guardian spirits of virgins, a parodic version of the gods and goddess of conventional epic." 72.60.88.172 06:40, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

I find the writing of this article convoluted with unnessecarily long sentences. They confuse rather than inform, not due to their content, but their rambling length. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 88.109.240.19 (talk • contribs) 18 April 2006 (UTC)

...wow, definitely agreed. I wonder if someone who wrote this felt like satirizing literary interpretation... I'll fix it up when I have the time. Hbackman 02:15, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Removed text

I was cleaning the article up a bit and removed the following text:

Pope could be criticizing the over-reaction of contemporary society to trivial things.

What dire offence from am'rous causes springs,

What mighty contests rise from trivial things

— Canto I

While describing the flamboyance of contemporary society in epic terms does ironically juxtapose the extreme triviality of this situation with the seemingly more grave situations of classical epic heroes, it is also possible that Pope was implying that within the constraints of the contemporary Beau Monde, it was equally heroic, for example, for a woman to succeed in life by marrying well, or for a suitor to attain his goal.

I removed it because I felt that it was a couple of paragraphs of close reading/literary interpretation that didn't do much for the article as a whole. Maybe it just needed some transitionary material...? If someone wants it back in and can make it fit smoothly into the article, I'm fine with that.

Hbackman 00:51, 4 December 2006 (UTC)