Talk:The Pentecostal Mission

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Contents

[edit] One comment to all the users

I HAVE OFTEN OBSERVED THAT MOST OF THE USERS DO NOT SIGN YOUR NAME OR YOUR USER ID. PLEASE DO NOT DO IT. EVEN IF YOU DO NOT HAVE ONE USER NAME THEN CREATE ONE OR YOU WILL CAUGHT DOING SOMETHING THAT YOU WOULD NOT HAVE DONE ACTUALLY. I REALLY APPRECIATE IT IF ALL OF YOU COULD AGREE WITH IT AND DO THE SAME BY PUTTING THE TIDLES. ALL THE OTHERS WHO AGREE THE SAME CAN DROP IN YOUR NAME. JUST TO BE KNOWN BY A NAME IS BETTER THAT AN UNKNOWN USER.I THINK YOU WILL HAVE TO GO AND READ THIS ARTICLE BEFORE YOU PUT IN A COMMENT HERE. REALLY GOOD ONE FOR CHRISTIANS AND NON-CHRISTAINS TOO.THANKS.This Page

I have found this good add-in for the Firefox web-browser (http://faithbrowser.com/installff.html) which I want to share with my brethren:

http://faithbrowser.com/

Rgds

Pastor Niru80.229.5.88 18:14, 8 February 2007 (UTC)


rencin24

[edit] Number

Can anyone tell me just as to how much of people are there in this church? an approximate count will. I meant all over the world. Could it be around 6 million??? or more?? rencin24rencin24 11:45, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

I guess a bit lesser than tht number, coz apart from asia and primarily India, i think the density is far lesser globally. Thats my hunch. I think the ministry is spread over 50 countries or so and i read some place that there are 6.7 Million TPMites.

Usquare 19:53, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Is it correct

Origin of Ceylon Pentecostal Mission

" In the initial stages he was helping Robert F. Cook, a foreign evenglist in interpreting the gospel in South Indian languages " . ???? I never heard/read this matter. -B

[edit] It is indeed

Well dear friend it is indeed correct and true that Pastor Paul was helping Robert F. Cook. If you look at the history of south pentecostalism movement you would also see that most of them became seperate for doctrinal issues. Go through the pages Robert F. Cook and IPC for more information. rencin24 rencin24 05:58, 27 September 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Pastor Alvin speaks again

Right, people seem to think there is something 'radically wrong' with me. They seem to believe that that I'm kind of Satan with intense hatred of this church, I am not. The point I was trying to make when I said I was a 'good Christian' is imagine how much more forceful my language and opinions could have been if I was an atheist, agnostic or even a Satanist! As I mentioned before, there are two aspects to my interest to the contribution to this web page. One aspect is the quality of writing on this web page and the other aspect is the theology of this church. As SPM2006 will point out to you, I edited something about Leadership of this church to make it NPOV and this is perhaps how you should write about facts on your page. The reason why I have not contributed to pages about the Anglican Church or the Catholic Church is that the quality of writing there is excellent and I feel there is nothing more to contribute.

I have also been accused in glorying in the 'incident that happened 50 years ago'. I'm not. I'm concerned for my Christian brother s and Christian sisters. Yes, there are 'Alvins' in other denominations but they are quickly dealt with. Locally, in my parish, a vicar was tempted by the devil and had an affair with a senior female member of the church. He committed adultery. He has been removed from the church and lost his privileges very quickly and fairly. This doesn't appear to happen with the CPM. What happened to Pastor Alvin de Alvis? What measures are there within the Church to prevent other 'Alvins' happening within?

Similarly, to increase my understanding of your Church, how do you explain faith healing? As I mentioned in one of my posts which was deleted, St Luke was a doctor. Additionally, isn't a demonstration of God's power that he has given us talented scientists and doctors to find these cures.

I look forward to your answers.

Pastor Alvin


[edit] SO?? GET OVER IT!!

Everytime you speak, I seem to get a clearer picture of you. I think RS CA should respond to your post because you are responding mainly to his/her post. You haven't responded directly to any of my comments that I have made point by point. Anyway, I think it is not even worth one second of my time responding to your silly arguments. So let me make a final point, and again, let the readers decide who is making sense here.
1. You claim you have no interest in the catholic or anglican page because they are excellent articles and are in no need of your expert contributions. Well, thank you for your interest in making this article the "most excellent one."
2. As far as allegations about immorality among the ministers of this church, you are just beating around the bush without providing any specifics or evidence. All you seem to be able to quote is "What happened to Pastor Alvin?" Thanks for your phony concern for your Christian brothers and sisters. We do not feel threatened in any way by the ministry. If at all there is even a suspicion of immoral behaviour, do you sir as an outsider, know how this church deals with it? I as a member, do know for a fact that there is "zero tolerance" for any such behavior. I KNOW IT FOR A FACT. This is a church that teaches and practices PURITY & HOLINESS in mind, body and spirit. Oh, by the way, I think you missed this article on wikipedia which is a well known fact from the very near past http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Catholic_sex_abuse_cases. And quoting from the article,
"An increasing number of cases were and are being reported by the press, after the victims decided to disclose what had been concealed by the church.[citation needed] Many cases involved orphanages, schools and seminaries, where children were in the care of clergy. This resulted in a form of abuse similar to that experienced by children in incestuous relationships (see Incest).
In many cases the crimes, when reported to them, were covered up by high-ranking authorities of the Church, and the perpetrators simply moved to another location, often with continued access to children.[citation needed] This has fueled criticism of the Church and its leadership especially as there are still ongoing refusals by some high-ranking Church authorities to disclose sex abuse information to government authorities."
3. Moving on...you say you have problems with the theology of this church. OK, I have problems with the theology of so many other churches, I guess I should take the cue from you and start attacking members of those churches on their websites and forums just because I do not happen to believe as they do. You did not see anyone on this forum attacking your church or whatever interests you represent on your websites.
4. Divine Healing or "Faith Healing" as you call it is a biblical truth. Jesus died for your sins and sicknesses. May be if you open your eyes and start reading your bible you will find the truth. If I say to you how painful childbirth is, you will not understand the pain unless you go through childbirth. The point being that unless you experience something you woudn't know or fully appreciate what it is. So is the case with diving healing. Talk to people who have experienced the divine healing power of God in their lives. Read the bible. Taste and see it for yourself. I do not want to add anything more on this topic. One more thing...You talk about St.Luke being a doctor. SO WHAT?? I guess he was the personal physician of "THE GREAT PHYSICIAN" and the 11 other disciples. The last time I checked my bible, it was Jesus who went about healing the sick. Dear brother, ask Jesus to heal your mind, body and spirit.
5. Lastly, again I want to reiterate, this article is for general knowledge purpose only, not to indoctrinate anyone or to convert anyone. If that was the case, the church would have had their own website stating their aims, objectives, mission statement, philosophy etc. etc. It is a brief article about the history, structure, office beares and activities of the church. SO GET OVER IT!!

--Spm2006 21:40, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] You need a life "Pastor Alvin"

Spm2006 hit the nail right on the head. I just want to say a few more things and call it quits. After reading much of "Pastor Alvin's" "eloquent" statements and his immature criticisms it can be rightly concluded that he has poor scriptural knowledge and is also vainglorious. He started first from Pastor Alwin's incident, then he went on to Roger Hedlund. Then went on to the language and then finally to the church doctrines. Let me make some points here.

You said that you are interested in the quality of the article. Is that why you were inserting false statements in this article for more than a year under the disguise of the chief pastor? Every organization, every company and every church has their own rules. Members are ready to obey those rules and if they don't agree they move on. Same way divine healing is one of the pillars of this church.

I have a few questions for your "intellectual" mind.

Do you believe

.in Jesus and His virgin birth?
.that Jesus healed the sick and all the other miracles that he did. Matt (8:16,17) ?
.that He took our infirmities and bare our sicknesses. (Isa 53:4,5)(Acts 10:38)?
.in the resurrection?
.that Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever?
.in the Power of God?

If you answered YES to all these questions then why can't Jesus heal today? Did he loose His power? If the answers to these two questions are not in the affirmative then at least one of the statements mentioned above is false. Think about it. You may believe in the existence of God but not in the power of God. Modern medicine can do a lot of things. But that's not the point here. There are a group of people who trust in God for their healing; spiritual as well as physical. They know that God is able to preserve that which is committed unto Him. The promises of God are true. But some may not receive the promises in this life but they die in faith. Heb 11:13

    These also died in faith, not having received the promises but having seen them afar off, and were
    persuaded of them and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on this earth.

Do not make your heart a heart of stone. A stone is the same whether you drop it in water or when you put it in fire. It's not going to change. Faith comes by hearing the Word of God and not by debate or dialog. I have experienced the healing power of God in my life and I have seen numerous others healed from their sicknesses.

You say that St. Luke was a doctor. But nowhere in the Bible can we find that he practiced it after becoming a follower of Jesus. He traveled with Paul and nowhere can you see that Luke treating Paul for his sicknesses. Brother, I was also born in one of the nominal churches and these are ready made questions that they ask with out checking the scripture.

You say "isn't a demonstration of God's power that he has given us talented scientists and doctors to find these cures" From my understanding of this statement you are saying that:

What God created was not perfect. He did a poor job. So He needs the help of mans' intellect to figure out the problems.

Or God gave a big puzzle for man to figure out his bodily problems and don't want to be bothered about this.


But I don't believe so. Sure, scientists and doctors are talented but why are they still "practicing medicine" for hundreds of years and still have not perfected it? I would suggest you to read an article in the August 2006 edition of Reader's Digest. The article is called "How Doctors Gamble With your Life". Why don't we trust the Creator himself than trusting the creature?

But if you want to sincerely learn more about divine healing I can send you a booklet on it. Do let me know.

   If they hear not Moses and the prophets neither will they be persuaded though one rise among the dead.
   Luke 16:31

RS CA 06:36, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Faith healing

Right, I make a few rational points and I still get abuse like "You need a life" and "Get over it". I'll forgive them and take this as interpretation of how strongly you believe in your faith and not as personal attacks on me. There are allegations on this page that I have also written as Pastor TU Thomas and Pastor Roshin. This is not the case. I use a popular ISP in the UK and this may explain similar IP addresses however, I don't quite see the point in having multiple personalities(!)

I was interested in RS CA's response. My interest in this area is sincere. Whenever I have spoken to members of the Church on this subject, I am just dismissed or I am not given a proper answer. I suppose it depends on how you believe God works. I believe we were given the Gift of Knowledge in the Garden of Eden and we were given a 'big puzzle' but God does care because he provides inspiration to the scientists that do find these cures. However, you are free to believe 'why trust a trainee medic when you've got access to the master one?'

Pastor Alvin

---

There you go Pastor Alvin! I understand your sincerity. Trusting in God alone for healing and not depending on medicine and doctors is rightly called divine healing. It may look foolish in the eyes of the world. But thats not our priority.RS CA 15:58, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] My opinion about "Pastor Alvin"

I bet there is something radically wrong with "Pastor Alvin". It all seems to be stemming from bitterness or some unforgiveness that he has in his heart. It is just my opinion. It would have been good if he is validating every article that pertains to every Christian denomination. What about the articles on the Catholic church or the Anglican church? I am sure it's easy to find many Alwin's over there. Aren't you bothered about that? If you are a good Christian you will be also praying for the servants of God than accusing the brethren (Rev 12:10). This is what you are doing day night. After all they are humans. You are talking about an incident that happened more than 50 years ago. Why are you glorying in this incident "Pastor Alvin"? You are the one who inserted this stuff in the previous article and many other false statements time and time again. What are we supposed to do now? Proclaim it in every message, every tract? We would appreciate a constructive solution from you. Don't pretend that you are very much concerned about Wikipedia standards. Obviously you are not. RS CA 05:17, 27 September 2006 (UTC)


Pastor Alvin.

[edit] A Response

Pastor Alvin, Thanks for clarifying that it is your "version of the facts".
1. It is unfortunate that your comments were deleted and the guy has apologized for doing so. You are free to put those comments back in the right order of discussion that we had.
2. As far as plagiarism goes, the older version was plagiarised (I don't know by whom), and it was cited rightfully for copyright violation. We have taken steps to correct that issue in this new article.
3. Every effort has been made to conform to NPOV guidlines, but if you feel that something does not meet that criterion (like the one you have cited), you are always welcome to point that out.
4. So first it was vilifying Dr.Roger Hedlund, apparently whom you do not know. Now you are continuing your tirade against the ministers of UK Pentecostal church accusing them of commiting sinful acts. You say you "believe" they are commiting sinful acts. You claim yourself to be a "good Christian". I think rather than self-approving to be a "good Christian", let your words and expressions be a testimony of the person you are. Matt 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. You are throwing stones at others, my dear friend, accusing them without any proof or evidence. This is slander, my dear brother, unless you can come up with some evidence. And you know what the Bible talks about slander.
5. In all humility I exhort you to be careful when you judge others. I'm sure you know what the scriptures say about judging others. Also, my personal opinion is that, this should not be the forum for mudslinging against other Christians (though you have every right and freedom to do so). If you have any constructive criticisms against the article, we will appreciate them. By the way, there are so many other articles on wikipedia that have used information from books written by members of their own organizations. Your interest in this specific article is quite remarkable!!
6. And finally, like you have titled this article, "be an example of Christ to others". We will try to do so by His grace. 1 John 4:7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.--Spm2006 22:01, 26 September 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Wat happened?

Hey wat happened to al the talk that was here??? Anyways lets start a new one



It's simple brother. Please read the Gospel according to John. Chapter 9.

 "25": He answered and said, Whether he be a sinner or no, I know not: 
 one thing I know, that, whereas I was blind, now I see.

[edit] Notability

Mr. Omnipresence,

Does adding the bibliography meet notability criterion of wikipedia? Your comments on "formal tone for encyclopedia" would also be appreciated.

Thanks spm2006


[edit] A response to Pastor Alvin

Pastor Alvin,

Pastor Alvin(familiar name),

It is very apparent that every word of yours seem to be spewing out the venom of hate towards TPM whatever be the reason behind it.

I would like to address a few issues here(excuse the poor grammar of un-edcuated TPMers):

1. I personally do not know Mr.Roger Hedlund, but I do know that he has written quite a few books and papers and has a title Doctor to his name suggesting that he has a doctorate. As you have mentioned he is also the 'Director of Mylapore Institute for Indigenous Studies'. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/index=books&field-author-exact=Roger%20E.%20Hedlund&rank=-relevance%2C%2Bavailability%2C-daterank/102-4728216-5534503. This is the link for his books on Amazon.com. Anyway, I am not here to defend Dr.Roger Hedlund since I do not know him personally or his organization that he represents and to the best of my knowledge is not a member of TPM. I am amazed at the speed at which you jumped to call him a "charlatan." I guess you know him very well.

2. You mention about the ill-educated senior pastors of the UK Pentecostal Church. True, some may not be as educated as you are (assuming that you are highly educated), but God sometimes chooses the foolish to confound the wise. 1 Corinthians 1:26,27

26For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: 

27But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

I wonder if the apostle Peter were alive today, you would have looked down on him too considering that he was only a fisherman and not having undergraduate or postgraduate qualifications.

3. Atleast you give the benefit of doubt to God, for giving "fanatics" of this questionable church/cult the gift of "speaking in tongues". I give you credit for that. I thank God that atleast God did not say that one of the requirements to be saved is that you should have a degree in grammar from Oxford University thereby making Christianity a religion exclusive to elites like you. Sure, may be the grammar and spelling does not match your standards or that of wikipedia. If you want to stifle the voice of TPM on wikipedia, sure you are free to do so. If you do not want people to know (just for information) that such a church does exist, sure go ahead and delete this article, by all means. The non-existence of this article will not annul the factual existence of this church and its history. The article does not attack any church or individual but merely mentions the history and some of its salient features. The work of God will continue, wikipedia or not, Pastor Alvin's hate or not.

In-Christ spm2006

[edit] Second response to "Pastor Alvin"

I really do not know whether you are a pastor or not. But I do know that you stand one among the many hate mongers of this Church. One other is the fake Pastor T U Thomas disguised under the name of our precious chief pastor. If you really love God then you should appreciate the work of God, whether it comes from ill-educated poor or the well-educated elite.

But that is not your vision. Your vision is to taint the work of God. This Wikipedia article is not a promotional page of the Church nor a web site. It is not interested in such things as you can see from the fact that it has no web page or any other internet related evangelism. It exists purely by the grace of God!

The ministers of this church have taken on the high calling to preach and warn every man to present them perfect in Christ Jesus.

  Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; 
  that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus. Col 1:28

Regarding NPOV, neutrality does not mean that you can present false information. This article has witnessed so much such nonsense in the past.

It may be true that the church has ill-educated pastors. Did Jesus send all his disciples to a University?

Let’s be on our knees seeking God’s grace and mercy.

RS

[edit] One user different User names

It is interesting to note that the users "Pastor Alvin", "Pastor T. U. Thomas", "Pastor Roshin" are one and the same person.


[edit] let readers decide

Now that Pastor Alvin has responded, and both arguments have been made, it's up to the readers now to decide which argument is right. God Bless You All Spm2006



[edit] pjacaobi

The name of this church is "The Pentecostal Mission" or TPM, and not Pentecostal Mission. That is why I thought it was appropriate for it to be under the new name "The Pentecostal Mission. Thanks

spm2006

But there are two different articles at The Pentecostal Mission and Pentecostal Mission respectively. If you want the (older) article PM at TPM, it has to be moved, not copied. --Pjacobi 10:56, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
No, we want to keep the new article at The Pentecostal Mission. What can we do to keep this version The Pentecostal Mission and delete the old one Pentecostal Mission. I thought redirect was the way to go. Please do what you feel is necessary to keep the new one.--Spm2006 16:34, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
OK, I can handle the fine print (regarding licensing, article history and eventual double redirects). And please be aware that the article The Pentecostal Mission still has problems, which must be resolved later.
But for now the question is:
Pjacobi 14:30, 26 September 2006 (UTC)


I also agree with the name The Pentecostal Mission and the current version looks fine to me. RS CA 15:17, 26 September 2006 (UTC) (RS)

Pjacobi, All I did with the old article is that I re-organized it and edited the article to conform to NPOV. Finally, I redirected it to "The Pentecostal Mission". If no one else objects to this new article as compared to the old one, then you may please go ahead and make this version the official one. Subsequently, we can discuss other issues that you may have with the article and we will try to resolve it. Thanks--Spm2006 20:59, 26 September 2006 (UTC)


I really feel that the page is not done completly still. I had asked SPM regarding adding some more informations to this page. I would not recommend that this page be listed as of yet. SPM I'am waiting for your reply about adding some more informations. rencin24. rencin24 06:14, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

I'm sorry Rencin, I did not get your message. What is it that you want added? Besides the question is whether you want to keep "The Pentecostal Mission" article or the one at "Pentecostal Mission". If you agree to "The Pentecostal Mission", then please confirm it. Additions/Deletions is an ongoing process and it can be done later too. So please confirm your choice.--Spm2006 10:48, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Well you can go ahead with the name The Pentecostal Mission as it is the officiall name of our churuch. So you can go for it me and SPM will decide later about the editing.rencin24 08:41, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sorry

Hey guys sorry for deleting that articles of Pastor Alwin. Please forgive me and let us start from new begening. If you guys agree then we can delete and start from the begenning.SPM What do you say.rencin24 rencin24 14:01, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Do you mean you want to start the talk page over again? I think it is against Wikipedia rules to do so. We can keep discussing issues right here.--Spm2006 21:01, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Good editing Pastor Alvin

Thanks for editing the "Leadership" section. I am referring to 21:26, 26 September 2006 80.229.5.88 (Talk) (→Leadership and Ministry).

Now it truly looks NPOV. Appreciate that.--Spm2006 22:14, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] rencin---list of pastors

rencin,

were you trying to put a list of chief pastors from the beginning? That's the idea I got from your list, so I changed it a little bit. If that was not the case then you may change it back.

[edit] Is it Correct ??? List of previous chief Pastors

Again, Is it Correct???

  • Pastor Philip Chandapillai (Associate Chief Pastor)
  • Pastor S.B. Earnest (Deputy Cheif Pastor)
  • Pastor Don M Spiers
  • Pastor T.G. Varghese

Please Check this previous CHIEF PASTORS list....

List of Chief Pastors from Pastor Paul founder of CPM( TPM/ NTC )

  • Pastor Paul (Ramankutty)
  • Pastor Alwin ( for a while)
  • Pastor Freddy Paul
  • Pastor A .C. Thomas
  • Pastor Jacob Ratnasingham
  • Pastor Earnest Paul
  • Pastor V.G. Samuel
  • Pastor C .K. Lazarus
  • Pastor P .M. Thomas
  • Pastor T.U. Thomas
  • Pastor Willson Joseph ( Present Chief Pastor)

Geobk 17:48, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Modifications and Additions for the better.

Congratulations to the person or persons who compiled this article. Indeed there are areas of dispute, but on going through the discussion forum, i found certain comments pretty trivial and immature. Lets not crib over minute details.

Coming to my suggestions.

If anybody has any snaps of either the Faith Homes or the conventions held till now or of any of other related thing...plz do post it. Would make the article a lot more informative...atleast colourful!!

Also, what is all the fuss about Pastor Alvin? For god sakes move on!! Unfortunately the inputs from the user "P. Alvin" were deleted, ridding us of an oppurtunity to figure out what the hoopla was about. Anyways, as a TPM believer by birth, all i have to say is that the Pastor Alvin incident is a part of our entity's history. He, from what i know, was a very eloquent preacher who unfortunately swayed away from the doctrines of this ministry. This is not a propoganda page, rather an encyclopedia. Lets not misrepresent facts. Instead accept history and move on.

Another comment...why dont u put the terms in office of all the chief pastors. Im sure the current generation is unaware of it and is more than interested to know.

And lastly, if anybody has information about any of the chief pastors till now, add a page as a hyperlink, thus making it a complete encyclopedic article. Hope this is taken in good spirit...

Usquare 19:48, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] A reply to unknown user

Hello friend it seems like you do not want to be identified at all. Well as you mentioned, about adding some pages well, wikipedia has got some rules in it. It should have covered all this NPOV, vandalism and for a better knowledge would ask you to go see the following:

Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

Thanks a lot I hope this is taken in good care?? rencin24


Well i did go through the wiki guidelines. Since im not very well versed with them as of now, it would be great if you could do the needful.

Thanks rencin24, and yeah i kinda had issues with being identified! But as long as its not a hinderance in effective communication, i dont think anybody should mind. On second thoughts...since there are more unknown users....u can call me Usquare...(Unknown User)

Usquare 19:50, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Criticisms against TPM leaders

wow the pastor alvin fake is indeed a terrible personality with so much pent up hatred. Forget being a christian atleast as a rational human with moral values one should not critize unless you have concrete proof. Now if you are a christian then you should not criticize at all since accusers belong to the family of the father of all acussers of bretheren the Devil. If we confront any lacunas on their human side ,let us go on our knees as pray instead of wasting time mudslinging.


[edit] any idea about the links related to our church

Hello guys has any one have any idea of any links that is pertaning to church if so then please do put it. As it is undergoing NPOV and disputes of such kind. Thanks. rencin24

[edit] Chief Pastors

Hello, all there is a page on Chief Pastors I hope we all will do the best to put all about chief pastors and other pastors that were a great blessing to us. Maybe we can also add some links to these related topics then will be good.Thanks.Usquare I hope you can do something about this. All the best. Chief Pastors.rencin24


Hey Rencin24...i will be glad to help out...good work on making that new page. But i am kind of busy for a while now.....so i'l be putting this on hold. Surely will resume once im done with work. Keep up the good work... Cheers!!

Usquare 19:50, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] church logo

can some one upload the church logo to this page as it will really be good if anyone can do it. And also if any of you have got any of the snaps of any pastors or church building then please do put it. Will be really neat if we can do that.

[edit] Other Pastors

Hey can somebody put other pastors also who were great and remarkable in TPM.....Hope you all the best. We can all contribute to this of all the pastors other than that at this page Chief Pastors58.2.238.143 12:53, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Parts of discussion is removed

I wonder why some of the discussion in this page were removed. I strongly believe that discussions support the article and it also prevents future vandalisms. Also, it may be against Wikipedia standards.RS CA

[edit] Please do not alter the discussions we had in the past

I strongly affirm what RS CA has mentioned. Whoever is deleting past discussions is knowingly or unknowingly commiting vandalism as per wikipedia standards. RS CA and rencin also knows how we strongly defended our mission against the vicious attacks by a user named "pastor alvin". All the discussions we had must be maintained on this page. As per wikipedia rules no one has ownership to this site. any comment made by any user has to stay. THANKS

[edit] Before deleting any posts please read this

Please check this link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Etiquette

An excerpt from that page reads:

Here are a few things to bear in mind Wikipedia articles are supposed to represent all views (more at NPOV), instead of supporting one over another, even if you believe something strongly.

The Talk ("discussion") pages are not a place to debate value judgments about which of those views are right or wrong or better. If you want to do that, there are venues such as Usenet, public weblogs and other wikis. Use the Talk pages to discuss the accuracy/inaccuracy, POV bias, or other problems in the article, not as a soapbox for advocacy.


If someone disagrees with you, this does not necessarily mean that (1) the person hates you, (2) the person thinks you're stupid, (3) the person is stupid, (4) the person is evil, etc. When people post opinions without practical implications for the article, it's best to just leave them be. What you think is not necessarily right or necessarily wrong - a common example of this is religion.

Before you think about insulting someone's views, think about what would happen if they insulted your religion. Also, always remember that anything that is written on Wikipedia is kept permanently, even if it is not visible.

Try to avoid deleting things as a matter of principle. When you amend and edit, it is remarkable how you might see something useful in what was said. Most people have something useful to say. That includes you. Deletion upsets people and makes them feel they have wasted their time: consider moving their text to a sub-directory of their user pages instead (e.g. saying not quite the right place for it but so they can still use it): much less provocative. Wikipedia invites you to be bold.

Before initiating discussion, ask yourself: Is this really necessary to discuss? Could I provide a summary with my edit and wait for others to quibble if they like? You can always take a discussion to e-mail or to your user page if it's not essential to the article.

If you know you don't get along with someone, don't interact with them more than you need to. Unnecessary conflict distracts everyone from the task of making a good encyclopedia, and is just unpleasant. Actually following someone you dislike around Wikipedia is sometimes considered stalking, and is frowned on because it can be disruptive. If you don't get on with someone, try and become more friendly and if that doesn't help the situation then it is probably best to avoid them. Though editing articles is acceptable (and, in fact, encouraged), editing the signed words of another editor on a talk or other discussion page is generally not acceptable, as it can alter the intent or message of the original comment and as such can misrepresent the original editor's thoughts. Try to avoid editing another editor's comments unless absolutely necessary

[edit] Deleting the comments

Deleting the comments are not fair. Yes I do agree with the above comments what they have posted. For further info regarding this go see Vandalism.Hope that will do the best.There are other Wikipedia editors who have got the rights to delete it. If you continue further, editors may be forced to block you IP Address in which case you cannot access the site until they are sure about you.Thanks.I really hope this is taken care in good understanding. Rencin Matthew

i ve read u r article about the pentecostal mission.it is very interesting.but i want to tell some thing about their publicatins.they have their monthly magazine called the voice of pentecost from india,"pilgrims journal"from usa,"trumpet of the lord"from uk,"the pentecostal messanger"from malaysia,"power divine"from srilanka,"the youth herald"from singapore.these are all magazines published by their mission.so please add this information with u r article.

[edit] Let's stop the quarrel

Dear Brothers in Christ,

I do not understand the quarrel on the name of pastors, the denominations etc. Particularly with Pastor Alwin and TPM. I read the whole article and was forced to laugh at the standard of the people involved.

The bottom line is that none of us will go to heaven, unless we have the heavenly standards. Whether it be Pastor Alwin or Pastor Peter (Jesus' Disciple) himself. Our measure is Jesus and one should look to Jesus and live his or her life. All of us will be measured against Him and there is no sense comparing ourselves with anybody in this world.

My personal way of setting goal is like this. For example to reach standard 10, it is necessary to pass out 1,2,3 ... till 9th Standard. When we are at standard 1, it would be better to make a target for standard 2. When in standard 2, set goals for standard 3. But you can never blame standard 1 and 2 for its low profile. You should remember that you were a part of it few years back.

Likewise, our final goal is Jesus. Better would be if we set a lower standard first and then adding our levels. We can set some good freinds as our target, then change it to good believers and then to pastors, etc. One thing we have to remember is never to turn back at them blaming them as lower standard people. Finally you set a target of Jesus and try to achieve it.

I am a TPM Believer and do not think that only TPM will go at His coming. I also do not believe that only TPM is a perfect church. There are many people, many churches. God will decide who is best. This is His job and not ours. Our job is to reach our goal that is Jesus...

God Bless us all.

JACOB from Jamangar - Gujarat - India

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jacob_from_Jamnagar" —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Jacob from Jamnagar (talk • contribs) 14:12, 4 March 2007 (UTC).


I understand the above comments. But the user has not provided a constructive solution to the problem that we are facing with this article in Wikipedia. I agree with all what he has said. But what is his solution to maintaining this article without someone vandalising it? Defending our faith is not something that we should look down upon. This article is just for information to any one that searches for this Mission. We don't want to have false statements in here. I believe it is our right to defend it. Either support this article or remove the article and forget about it... RS CA(i forgot my password)64.142.43.180

[edit] ITS NOT QUARREL ITS FORGETTING

ITs not quarrel, but its forgetting. Its easy to have a fight and forgive, but not to forget. I agree with with the above but, lets not forget as to what TPM holds on to. There are many churches, denominations and also sects in this stuff called as christians. Remember that this is not a religion!!!!!! Well I agree with the above user of his comment what he said about the second comming. Yes to be honest our late Pastor T.U.Thomas himself said that no church is perfect. Every church has their own way of growing in the Lord. Lets not forget that.Talking about Pastors and hitting the points, well for every truth there is an oppossition and for every percesuction there is a revival. Our church or in other words TPM is not just speaking the truth(every church does that) but they are bringing a believer into to deeper truth. So its natural for pastors or people who leave this faith and go to be hurt and also have some kind of an hatred.Rather than talking about the same issue lets start to pray for them. God still loves them. It does not matter if he/she belongs to this faith or not. Christians lack one thing that is love. I'am sure if Pastor Don were to know about these kind issues he would just show them the first thing that is love. Even as the Bible says "set you mind on heavenly things" if we set our thoughts on good things and eternall things we will not have any problem in our life.I have just added to the above comment. rencin24

[edit] Please clarify Indigenous

I do not understand the word indigenous in the introductory sentence:

The Pentecostal Mission, formerly known as Ceylon Pentecostal Mission, is one of the largest indigenous pentecostal Christian denominations in the world with a membership of at least 5 million believers.

(I am not a native speaker of English; but I think I am reasonably fluent in English).

My dictionary says:

indigenous  
adj. native; belonging naturally to a place; originating from a place

What is then the difference between indigenous pentecostal denominations and non-indigenous pentecostal denominations? Is a non-indigenous denomination a denomination that originated in one part of the world and then moved to another part?

Can someone perhaps give an example of a non-indigenous pentecostal denomination to clarify the term?

The introductory sentence suggests that the Pentecostal Mission is not the largest pentecostal Christian denomination in the world. Is it correct that the largest pentecostal denominations are non-indigenous?

I'll insert link to indigenous in the article text, however that still does not clarify the term in this context.

Please clarify the introductory sentence of this article. Johan Lont 11:08, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org../../../t/h/e/Talk%7EThe_Pentecostal_Mission_02fc.html"