Talk:The Matrix Revolutions

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[edit] Recent Change

I'm sorry, I couldn't stand it. I excised something out of this article. It was a single sentence from a couple of paragraphs into the article. It was the following:

The films are respected by many as cinematic works that are as significant as works of science fiction by renowned cinematic artisans like Stanley Kubrick.

I took it out for three basic reasons.

1. It's not a very good sentence; it uses "cinematic" and "works" twice in only 25 words.

2. It is not cited. I was thinking I should leave part of it in, like: The films are respected by many as cinematic works that are as significant as works of science fiction by renowned cinematic artisans. But then that statement couldn't be cited an verified, at least not by me, 'cause I'm not going to waste my time verifying a lame statement for a an even more lame movie (I know, I just repeated myself. DAMN!).

3. It's blatantly false. Stanley Kubrick DIED March 7th, 1999. The first film, The Matrix, didn't even OPEN until March 31st, 1999. Now, given, maybe he got an advanced copy, and maybe moments before his death he watched the movie, and maybe someone, a friend of the family, over heard his comment that he "fucking loved it," and was so moved by his being moved by the movie that he/she recanted this tail to some accredited news agency. Me, I can't find reference of it anywhere. And, even if he did see the movie and did say he loved it, the sentence is still blatantly false. In the article it cites his name as being one who thought the FILMS were "significant cinematic works (by citng his name in this manner, it at least implies he saw all the films)." Unless he made such comments from the afterlife, there's no way this is possible. The sequals were released the 7th of May, 2003 and October 27th, 2003, respectively.

--Joe Volcano 10:07, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

  • I think you may have misread the sentence. The person who wrote it is saying that many people respect these movies as much as they respect movies by Kubrick, not that Kubrick himself appreciated them. Admittedly the first two reasons given should be more then adequate for removal.

even if that is so, the sentence is then grammatically weak and that doesn't change the fact that the sentence should still have been excised because it was UNCITED.

--64.142.79.210 13:41, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Contradiction?

"Despite poor reviews and a weaker opening than its predecessor, The Matrix Revolutions broke box-office records for its opening weekend..." -- Isn't that kind of self-contradictory? -- Maybe the opening can be read as the start of the film and the first weekend showing... how would you clarify?

-- Weaker opening may be reffering to the opening scenes of the movie, although I fail to see how that relates to how much money it made in it's opening weekend.


it depends on what type of box office records, it did worse at the box office than matrix 1, but still beat other movies of that year(?)week(?)

[edit] Hinduism

The Oracle didn't say that Neo was alive in the Matrix somewhere, she said that they would probably see Neo again. It doesn't mean Neo didn't die. I believe he did die, but this is the reset of the major cycle. In Hinduism, there is such a thing as a manvantara and a yuga. Yugas are the 4 ages that pass, while 1 manvantara is one set of 4 yugas. It's a new manvantara, and it's now the Golden Age all over again. Neo will be re-incarnated once again, but only in the 4th yuga. Things don't change, that's what I believe is the ultimate point. Everything that has a beginning has an end, but every end means a new beginning, most likely the SAME beginning, at least in Hinduism this is what is believed to be true.

Souls never rest in Hinduism. Once they merge with Brahman, as is what I believe happened with Neo's real soul, which is in direct parallel to his Matrix avatar merging with the Source (an allegory for Brahman), it is not the end. Upon dissolution of the universe, Brahman spits all those souls out again, so to speak and the divine drama is renewed, often re-enacted almost exactly, but subtle differences here and there.

[edit] This thing needs a serious rewrite

So far, the article's just a lengthy plot description and a bit of info on revenues. Surely there's more interesting stuff to write about surrounding the film? The plot segment's a bit too unwieldy at the moment IMO. Sockatume, Talk 19:03, 30 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I've spent some effort here and there to revise portions of it, as well as portions of Reloaded's plot/spoiler section. Mainly if something comes across as confusing or an overt conjecture (something I don't think belongs in the same section as a spoiler, it deserves its own talk section or something) I rewrote it.Bombfish 03:56, 9 January 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Christianity

Ezekiel, not Jesus, was referred to as the "Son of Man." (Read: Eze 2:1)


There is a theory that the whole idea of the movie was based on Christianity. The Arcitect as God, designing and building the matrix, The Oracle as Virgin Mary; the Arcitect says, 'If I were the Father, she would be the mother.' Neo as Jesus, the saviour. Morpheus as John the Baptist, bringing Neo into the Matrix as John brought Jesus into Christianity. Agent Smith as the devil, a fallen program, one which was part of the system but then rebelled. However the Merivovingian could be the Devil, his wife is Persephone just as Hades God of the Underworld, wife was. Most of the character have such traits from Christianity.

The Holy Spirit(reffered to as the Holy Gohst in this article) is kind of a helper that is always with you. If you recall, Trinity was just about always with Neo, even in the first one where Neo was in the Matrix and fighting Smith in the Subway. Trinity, like the Holy Spirit, was the last one that really showed how she connected to the Holy Trinity. This may be why she is named Trinity.Dogmanice

[edit] Merovingian dynasty note

I removed the following note from the plot description since it is already mentioned at The Merovingian where it belongs.

(behind the scenes note: the Merovingian Dynasty is the name of the line of the first royal house of France, and are rumored to have been descendants of Christ)

I don't think it is that important to include in the plot summary. --Ricky81682 (talk) 04:26, Jan 2, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] News story link

"Oh come on, it's a cute and factual link to a news item directly related to the film and is referenced in a related article. I'm sorry if you don't think it's politically correct."

It's actually indirectly related to the film--it's *directly* related to a rally by Russian communists. It's not a matter of political correctness for me, it's a matter of it being a poor link to include here because it has little to do with the film itself. Required reading: Wikipedia: External links and m:When should I link externally (answer: Not very often.).

And it matters very little to the movie itself or to anyone who wants to learn more information about it whether or not Russian communists held a rally at its premiere in Russia.

If it's referenced "in a related article", than, if appropriate, put the external link *there*.

— Phil Welch 22:43, 20 May 2005 (UTC)

Is this just an advert for "ananova.com"? - Tεxτurε 22:47, 20 May 2005 (UTC)


Ananova is the web service of the British Press Association. A link to an Ananova article is no more an ad for Ananova than a link to a CNN article is an advert for CNN. AndyL 23:18, 20 May 2005 (UTC)

"And it matters very little to the movie itself or to anyone who wants to learn more information about it "

Nonsense, it offers an interpretation of the movie and is thus of interest to anyone wanting information of the movie except to those who wish to deny that a Marxist interpretation of the films exist. You've made it clear elsewhere that you dislike this interpretation and I suspect this POV is playing itself out here. AndyL 23:21, 20 May 2005 (UTC)

I've never made it clear I dislike the interpretation. Look, I'll tell you what. If you want to go to Matrix trilogy and write something about the Marxist interpretation there, including whatever external links you find appropriate, that's cool. That's a good use of external links--as a reference for material in the article itself. Unfortunately, the external link in question is not serving that purpose now. — Phil Welch 23:22, 20 May 2005 (UTC)

Writing a paragraph in The Matrix Revolutions on how the film was received around the world would serve the same purpose. AndyL 23:25, 20 May 2005 (UTC)

If it was extensive enough to include every small demonstration and rally at every major city where it premeired, maybe. I still think the link and the relevant information are FAR more notable within the greater context of Marxist interpretations of the Matrix trilogy. Come on, what do you have against this solution? — Phil Welch 23:43, 20 May 2005 (UTC)

What, you don't want to write about the Marxist interpretation of the Matrix trilogy? I'd have thought that would be the ideal solution, because you get all the Marxist-related external links you want and Wikipedia gets actual content related to the issue. I'm not your enemy here, I'm trying to help Wikipedia, and I'm suggesting a third way out of this impasse to Wikipedia's benefit. — Phil Welch 23:28, 20 May 2005 (UTC)

I've been avoiding the main movie pages like the plague after watching the hubbub on interpretations. I decided to dive in, if nothing other than to relieve the page of several annoying run-on sentences, awkward phrases, and just-plain-wrong summarization. While the Smith deletion matter is clear enough to me, it's not page to put my opinion. However I did note points from the movie that seemed to debate the other speculations where applicable. The MxO game is canonical in terms of events that are formed from the game hosts and, in turn, the Wachowskis. While hopefully this doesn't open up the idea that any player can claim to have effected a game event and make themselves a significant canon element ("Look! Teh roxxor! I p00ped in a corner by Neo's phone booth!), it should help in resolving a few questions that needed a more definitive answer, such as the demise of the main characters. Spencerian 5 July 2005 20:40 (UTC)

[edit] Hint

"However, even this explanation fails to addresss the one irrefutable flaw in the story: why would a 'machine' honor its word to a human, ending a war that serves its own purpose?"

The answer is of course that humans (Neo) was still in control of the machine, thus keeping the balancing interdependencies in place; humans need machines to live, machines need humans to live. (trying to explain this in the context of fate is the hardest)

By this I mean, there is no way 6bill naked pink-goop covered humans could survive without the machines, and there's no way the machines could survive without 6bill naked pink-goop covered humans. obviously the machines were having major problems keeping the code to a level where everyone could accept it, only a human could write it correctly, and the bang bang method of the architect was destined to destroy the Matrix (akin to building a nuclear powerplant by using simple trial-and-error)

Maybe the human race was fated to create a machine that could carry them after the planet was destroyed.

Neo's fate? Did he "ascend" into the machine's consciousness? Most would say it was impossible, but for the Matrix to be renewed, he must reside somewhere within it, whether with or without a physical body.

Answer: Ummm...the people in Zion aren't the inside the Matrix. You completely dodged the question. Why not kill the humans in Zion and keep the ones in The Matrx i.e. why change ANYTHING? The machines are happy with everything as is; let Neo kill Smith, go back on your "word"(whatever that means to a machine) and kill Zion along with Neo. Problem solved. Easy logical solution that a machine could easily come to. 203.10.59.63 06:31, 15 September 2005 (UTC)

While not wiki-relevant I believe it's part of the humanisation of the machines which takes place to an extent in the two sequels, most blatantly (and nauseatingly) with Neo's chat with Sati and her family in Mobil Ave. station.

The whole article seems POV, like a fanboy's dream review. Scholars and philosophers are tossed around like MANY people make these claims but it references ONE person? Come on, it truly is an apologist article for a movie that very much did not live up to it's expectations. Slammed critically and with a lackluster followup in theaters and DVD.12.17.203.65 02:08, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

I agree, this whole article feels very biased. I know at one point a NPOV warning appeared at the begining of the article, shouldn't it be put back? BambinoPrime 04:34, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hmm

Messianic figure is blinded but can still see with mental powers? Dune Messiah anyone? Also, philosophical section is low quality and indeed fanboyish.

yeah, there was a strong feeling, critically-wise, that the movie's philosophical zen-like teachings were nothing but shallow new-age philosophical mumbo jumbo that was indeed boring on the sequels as it never really went anywhere and just pointed out the obvious. Never the less, it takes a real fan-boy to oversee all of this to give a rather larger meaning. Its sad to think that most of us have such a poor knoledge in philosophy, that even an outdated philosophy like the one of Plato looked brand as new on the screen. It has happened before, though, as in Fight Club some of Nietzsche's teachings were also barely grasped, yet it was seen as a rather "deep" movie by most, when all in all it was just a fun movie with a rather unoriginal and vague philosophical meaning. However, one has to give it to these movies for sparking an interest in philosophy, but at the same time we should not place them in an altar since no one is a better person after watching them.

[edit] A Second level matrix..?

Messianic figure is blinded but can still see with mental powers? Dune Messiah anyone? Also, philosophical section is low quality and indeed fanboyish.(unsinged)

"In spite of his injury(blind), Neo can see Smith - his connection with the Source manifesting in his recognition of Smith's program inside of Bane. Neo then kills Bane/Smith and releases Trinity, who pilots them towards the Machine City (presumably 01 described in The Second Renaissance)."


When facing the Deus he biologically blind Neo can SEE him ,does that imply a second level matrix ,or is there another plausable explenation? --Procrastinating@talk2me 01:33, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

There is no meta-matrix. The meta-matrix theory has been disproven in many physical and philosophical analyses. There is only a "second level matrix" as much as you may consider reality itself an illusionary matrix, which it is most likely not and i daresay someone somewhere has gone about rigorously defining reality and proving it extant.
The original argument sprang from misunderstandings in reloaded. When kurzweilai tried to physically describe the matrix and the "metamatrix" they made so many contradicting assumptions that it can hardly be said that what they were describing even remotely resembled the matrix universe. The truth of the matter is if close attention is payed it will be noticed that Neo ONLY sees information originating from the machine mainframe, this ability is granted to him by the machine code he carries within his own mind(new software), and he already has multiple man machine interface hardware built right into his body, of which we know nothing but it's most crude and basic function of neural interface, no doubt some consideration had to have been made for the very code of the machines to be intepreted as reality in the first place within the matrix. This makes neos code-vision simply a sensing and reinterpretation of the data located in realspace as a video image. To describe it as biological sight would be a fallacy, it is in essence a different sense. He is connected to the source on multiple levels. Connectoin through mentally stored source code, abilities given by machine hardware, connection through standard worldy senses, and (on some more supernatural/spritual interpretation which I don't like, but if its your thing then have at it)the connection through the power source (humanity itself).
The matrix within a matrix, neo as a program, and neo as a clone are all silly ideas that people enjoyed entertaining between Reloaded and Revolutions. Even though upon closer inspection i believe that those are all disproven within reloaded itself, it is difficult to say since I have already seen the full franchise and it is difficult to look back in retrospect and feign ignorance while i analyze some idea that is absurd in the light of the entire franchise.
We can also pretty much be sure that the machine city is 01 of T2ndR, as in all media it is referred to as "the machine city" as in there are not multiple cities. Beyond naming conventions and the identical design, most all of the sentient programs live in codespace as it is. They don't really consume non-renewable resources in the same way humans do, they are self sufficient and not at all imperialist or capitalist in material ideology. Being a totally digital being allows for freedom and expansion without any motion to speak of of a body. Even though they have a tendency to fight amongst themselves the seperation and angst is all conducted in codespace, mainly in the matrix itself, and no factions get around to building cumbersome robot bodies and travel off to make other cities, codespace is to them like the land is to us, we would not even consider colonizing the oceans and fighting entirely underwater when there is perfectly good land to live on and fight over, so must be the rationale of the machines, which eventually leads us to the topic of machine morals and why they are enslaving humans anyway instead of just using hydroelectric power or something, but there isnt enough space on the wikipedia servers for that...LOL Solidusspriggan 06:47, 7 March 2006 (UTC) Oh i belong to the church of the invisible pink unicorn as well, hiyo brother!
Hi there fellow believer ,live long and pink.
If I understand you correctly(you kind'of wondered off the topic..) Neo is Seeing and being able to stop the sentinals in the Real World because his bioelectric interface although unplugged is somehow remotely communicating with the Source (which controls them)..?
Even so ,when fighting agent smith's bio body ,he can see him. is that possible becasue the agent's bio body also has bioelecetrical interfaces which communicate with the source via somesort of a wireless medium ..? --Procrastinating@talk2me 16:45, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
As I see it yes. although i did not address the attacking of the sentinals, we may speak of that later, but his "connection" to the source is not my primary position on the refutation of a metamatrix. Even if we can discredit the wireless medium theory (which seems unreasonable to do so considering our current level of wireless communication technology, possibly 700 years before the film takes place) and if that particular fragment of smith is disconnected from the machine network, native machine information is still flowing through bane's neural pathways and stored in his bioneural net. Neo is able to sense this with the perception bestowed upon him by the code he carries, without need for any connection, not to say he doesn't have such a connection, and if he had such an abilty smith should naturally develop it due to his tendancy of balancing neo's powers via the architects engineering. Solidusspriggan 22:51, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

I'm sorry ,thats not an explenation. I see Only 2 options:

  1. There is a meta matrix.
  2. There is wireless communication.

You are using somesort of a spiritualistic approach I dont follow ,do you have a third explenation?--Procrastinating@talk2me 15:47, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

I am definitely not trying to give a spiritual explanation, I do not believe such things and do not wish to apply them to the matrix. I choose option 2, although I am saying for neo's sight there is easily a third explanation. Firstly i agree with you that there IS wireless communication and i DONT believe there is a meta matrix. All I was saying is that neo's sight of the golden source energy is something that doesn't require conventional electronic wireless communication(there need be no server) because it is transmission of information just as light waves and sound waves are intepreted by our brains, neo's brain has been modified by various machine introduced factors to interpret energy originating from the source in three dimensional realspace just as we can intepret various sensory information, there are multiple mediums that this could be transferred though, most convincingly by-product EM emmissions that neo can sense with a modified brain programming which allows the intepretation of this EM information as it passes through his brain when he nears the sources. I am NOT proposing this is a spiritual energy of any sort, but rather electrical information with particular attributes which neo can sense with his very own neural structure, that is my "3rd", and primarily a case to show that the metamatrix is not needed nor is specualtion of implanted wifi hardware that is not mentioned in the films.

As for Smith/bane communication there are also 2 cases that need no metamatrix, one is that Smith is in electronic wireless communication with Bane as you propose in option number 2. However another explanation would be that after smith overwrites Bane's ghost (ghost in the shell "ghost" mind you) and Bane jacks out, a copy of smith behaves independantly in the real world without communication with the program smith within the matrix. When I say "native machine information is still flowing through bane's neural pathways and stored in his bioneural net." that is the electrical information with specific attributetes that neo can single out in his view of this EM information. That makes perfect sense if you consider the fact that the human neural structure must be vastly different from what smith is accustomed to.

Those are the "third" explanations. While I suspect these will hold up to scrutiny, I believe the wireless communication shouldn't be ruled out because there is some working out to do with neo's telekinesis, something I am really to tired to contemplate beyond the electronic wireless explanation. There is however no need for the metamatrix and if there was a metamatrix it would make the entirity of the events of the films pointless. The wireless explanation was really always fine with me until ppl started bitching about it and I began working out alternatives. I personally still dont believe it impossible and think it the most likely since the idea of neo's "emotional connection" being the source of his power...that is freaking stupid.

So as I see it there are only two explanations in order of likelyhood:

  1. there are perfectly naturalistic (less speculative than below) explanations for all phenomanae in the movies.
  2. There is conventional (yet unused by machines and zionites and unmentioned by films) wireless communication.
  3. there is a metamatrix
  4. it is spiritual and we are all godless communists and we're gonna rot in hell for it...LOL

The latter two being thrown in for kicks just because of their low to 0% probability, a meta explanation makes more plot holes than the unmentioned wireless theory. It is based purely knowledge from matrix 1 and reloaded w/o knowledge of animatrix and revolutions. A spiritual explanation is just not in good taste for science fiction, or for anything for that matter. Also just to make it clear, I do not think that neo can actually "SEE" this golden light in the classic sense of sight. Firstly with the sensing of the machine source energy neo is most likely experiencing something that is unknowable to those of us without his ability, and an onscreen intepretation is that of a visual format since film is a visual medium of entertainment. Secondly he could very well sense these things in this first manner, and his brain could intepret them as visual information in an attempt to cope with this new type of stimuli, probably the case since he tells trinity that he wishes she could see it because it was beautiful. Solidusspriggan 11:59, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

  • Nice ,You are using spiritualists claims for negate your own spiritual belief.
  • Mediumless EM signals sounds like my initial telecommunication hypothesis. Yet you made so Many far fetch claims ,I dont know where to start..
    • How about firstly stating that the very foundation of which the prinicipal of the matrix is built is physically false(eneregy). If anything the machines would keep humanity imprisoned out of historical(zoo) or moral reasons(dont kill the creator).
    • Neo still needs a sensor for this "EM information" ,if so the entire jack-into-the-matrix technology is redundant ,if such a device is implemented easily. Nero didnt undergo any advanced neural surgery in the film.
    • You cannot download a ghost into a bioneural net in seconds ,t'll take at least several weeks to rewire.
  • And what's a "natrualistic expl'"? like what? what you are saying is "There is a better explenation ,but I do not know it."
  • Rearding the MetaMatrix: WHAT IF the matrix is older than the architect thinks ? what if in order to resolve this everlasting conflict (not even starting to discuss the self limiting factors the machines took for this war to happen in the first place) the machines simply built a meta-matrix thousands of years later ,and put both of their ancestors in a virtual zoo? check out this site: [1].

Lastly ,the main point of the film is to induce controvercy and ,owe and be cool ,Any further attempt to rationalize it are futile ,because there aren't any hidden innuendos. (let's continue this in my talk page if you'de like)--Procrastinating@talk2me 18:23, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Obviously it is just a movie ^_^. I think the "zoo" idea is interesting and somewhere I came across the idea that mainting the existence of the human race may very well have been something that was originally part of the machines' programming, that coupled with the programming for their own survival could very well have resulted in this symbiotic relationship forming.Solidusspriggan 08:03, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Interpretation & analysis

I have removed the interpretation and analysis section as it was original research. — goethean ॐ 00:01, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Reception

I removed the following block of text: "Other pieces cult science fiction cinema considered contemporary critical failures include 2001: A Space Odyssey and Blade Runner. The aforementioned films are today considered by many as being bechmarks in science fiction cinema[2], suggesting the Matrix sequels may recieve a warmer reception in the long term."

Just because the critical reaction to some cult SF films has changed their is no reson to suppose that this will be the case with this particular film. Besides, 2001 and Blade runner were a long way from being "contemporary critical failures". Both films were widely praised and highly influential on their initial release.

I assure you that you are mistaken.
When Stanley Kubrick's 2001: A Space Odyssey premiered in Washington, D.C., on April 2, 1968, most film critics found the film slow-moving, dull, and completely bereft of a discernible plot. Renata Adler in The New York Times said that “the movie is so completely absorbed in its own problems...that it is somewhere between hypnotic and immensely boring.” Judith Crist, writing in New York, suggested that “2001” be “cut in half” in order to “preclude our wondering why exactly Kubrick has brought us to outer space.” Variety remarked the film was “big, beautiful, but plodding and confusing.” Even science fiction author Lester del Rey stated the film was a “disaster” and likely to “set major science fiction moviemaking back another ten years.”
Jane Maslin in The New York Times wrote that Blade Runner was a “muddled . . . gruesome . . . mess.” People magazine called it “a slothful movie, dim both literally and figuratively . . . Better you should go down to your local foreign car garage and watch them repair a Porsche, if want to see something really exotic.” Shiela Benson referred to the film as “blade crawler” in the LA Times, and Pat Berman in a Southern review called it “SF pornography.” Roger Ebert gave it a thumbs down, explaining “the movie’s weakness is that it allows the special effects technology to overwhelm its story.”
Also, Blade Runner made back only half of its production budget in ticket sales (its budget was $28 million and its gross was an appalling $17 million).
I'm merely mentioning that both 2001 and Blade Runner were - like The Matrix Revolutions - critical failures. Seeing as the original Matrix is widely considered to be one of the single most influencial films of the 20th century, I don't think it's unfair to mention this. The series is highly important on the science fiction cinema scene, just like 2001 and Blade Runner.
As a result, I'm going to reinstate the comment (minus the last section about the "warmer reception") for now, but feel free to discuss it further. --Max314 21:57, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] This might be the final arguement

I think i have figued out why 1. neo can see the source 2.why the architect says the machines have destroyed zion "5" times 3.Why neo can destroy the sentinals in the real world.

There is a second matrix

The real world isn't the real world,rather just another matrix.When the architect explains to neo that he has only two choices at the source(the matrix reloaded),he says that he must pick 27 males and 26 females to recreate zion.In the second matrix theory,this would mean that neo has control over the second matrix for a short period of time to"reboot" the system.Thus explaining why the machines have destroyed zion "5" times,the machine mainframe still kept its memory and repeated the zion siege 5 times without failure.This can also explain neo seeing deus ex machina without eyes or vision.Another theory of mine is that neo is part human part program,due to the fact that only he can return to the source like programs.Also he can destroy sentinals by "deleting them" using the power of the source. Think about it

You're an idiot who doesn't understand the movies

[edit] The REAL final argument

If you have to make extrapolations about a 'meta-matrix' or 'wireless communication', not explicitly or even remotely hinted at in the film, the film FAILS. That simple. It doesn't hold up to it's own critical 'philosophy' of look closer and don't believe your eyes. When you have to MAKE STUFF UP to explain events in the film, logical or otherwise, the film is at fault.

yea ur right.The films fail.There are alot of plot holes.

Have you ever considered that if a theory does not explain it to your satisfaction, it might be the theory that is at fault and not the movie? There are other theories that you might find to better explain it that are hinted at (or close to explicitly stated but require putting 2 and 2 together). There are near-explicitly given explanations for Neo stopping the Sentinels. The matrix code is like a lower form of the Tao (Neo sees it when he reaches a lower form of enlightenment at the end of the first movie, it is what everything inside of the matrix is made of, it is said that it can be felt). When Neo reaches a higher state, he begins to knowingly feel the real Tao as a reaches a higher form of enlightenment (he reports feeling something different) and changes it (just like stopping bullets or jumping high). That Tao is what he sees when he is blinded (he reaches an even higher form of enlightenment). 211.29.250.5 06:44, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Split suggestion

As this is a long article and the interpretation section can be considered tangential (and it's long enough to be its own article), I suggest it be split out. Her Pegship 15:16, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] What about this?

Maybe in the matrix when man builds the machine,the machine takes over and repeats its self over and over inslaving an all ready inslaved man kind.

Proves the Meta-Matrix theroy

Proves the Wireless theroy

And also..When the Wachoskis make a flim they leave the audiance with their own opinion.


This is only a theory,and theories will always be theories

[edit] Neo's Abilities In The Real World

The plugs on Neo's body? They're not just cool little stick-ons for the Zion rave. They are mechanical ports that come complete with transit tubes that link to the central nervous system, which is itself equipped (through cybernetic enhancements) to send and receive electrical signals, thus allowing pod-borns to jack into the Matrix.

Yes, all pod-borns are cyborgs, and I hope you can see how this makes sense.

Neo is a cyborg.

This is the crux issue that you must accept. There are no two ways about it.

Now, at the end of Reloaded, we see this:

[3]

Look carefully. It is not a simply case of cleanly stopping bullets or making objects move at a whim.

It is a physical action that makes Neo's body contort and twist before he finally drops unconscious to the floor. What has happened? Notice how it looks like an electromagnetic pulse. Very small, yes...put it is definitely on the electromagnetic (EM) frequency.

In fact, here's an excerpt from the script itself:

INT. SEWER MAIN - NIGHT
They are racing through a series of smaller pipelines but they are still very far away. The Sentinels pass the burning hull of the Nebuchadnezzar, immediately spreading over the area.
Neo slows down.
NEO
We won't make it.
TRINITY
We have to try.
Turning, he can see them.
TRINITY (CONT'D)
Neo, come on!
NEO
Something's different...
TRINITY
What?
The Sentinels bank with shark speed and ease, zeroing in on them.
TRINITY (CONT'D)
What are you doing?
NEO
I can... feel them.
They are almost on top of him, rising up to strike when--
He lifts his hand as one might reach out to feel the heat of a fire and suddenly, an electronic seizure shivers through each of them.
One by one, struck by some invisible lightning, an individual E.M.P.--
That sends them crashing to the ground and as the last one falls--
So does Neo. Like a puppet cut from its strings, he collapses to the wet ground.

So, how is this possible?

Well, it's all in the movies.

The Oracle explains that Neo is connected to the Source. Anyone familiar with the Ghost In The Shell movies (the first of which was an overly stated inspiration on the trilogy) will be aware of the fact that the humans are cybernetically enhanced with Bluetooth-esque augmentations made to their brains that allow them to access the Net wirelessly at will. Neo has this wireless connection but, as the Oracle explains, it is a connection to the Source and everything that is derived from it.

"Everything that is derived from...the Source" includes the squiddies, the machine mainframe, and - of course - the Matrix itself.

This means that when Neo is broadcasting his signal into the Matrix without needing to jack in, and when Neo is able to see the machine world without his physical eyes, he is using this wireless connection to the Source to do so.

But why would the machines design the One to have this power?

Well, we have to remember that the One is the One. There is no other. Therefore, the machines have to create an entity with the potential to have power over the Matrix (remember that the Architect talks of how Neo was created "by design"). It is evident that the way they did this was to give the One a connection to the Source...but to cut off his greater potential, thus leaving him with only his abilities within the Matrix. Of course, the machines have to build in a fail-safe. That fail-safe, according to the Oracle, was death. But "apparently [Neo wasn't] ready for that". As Rama-Kandra implies, it is Neo's love for Trinity that kept him from dying, and ended up having him be caight between the machine mainframe (the Source) and the Matrix in the Trainman's illegitimate Mobil Ave construct.

Hopefully, that clears up the dilemma of Neo's real-world powers. --Max314 22:13, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Original Research

People who post on this talk page, and I suspect in some cases on the article itself, seem to be unfamilar with what Wikipedia is. It is not a venue for original research, which is to say there should be no information in it which does not appear first in another reputable source. mgekelly 16:09, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mystery Man

At the end of the movie when we see the Matrix after Neo and Smith are destroyed and before the Matrix changes, who is that guy that is laying in the hole all by himself where Smith smashed Neo into the ground? He is dressed like Neo, and it has been a while since I've seen the movie, but I'm pretty sure the guy laying there looked nothing like him. Does anyone know who this guy is?

The Oracle. Konman72 06:54, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Wow. I've never noticed that before.

Yes.  ;Neo - It ends tonight. Smith - I know it does, I've seen it. This is implying that the smith Neo fights is the Oracle/Smith. --Graveenib 01:30, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Interpretation

This section seems like it belongs in the discussion page. Everything is theories and POV without sources. Any thoughts? --Graveenib 01:27, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps, but then it gives links to online forums as "sources". Also, if you read the article about the Deus Ex Machina, this appears to give a clear and reasonable explaination of how Smith is deleted, thus the theories are all wrong and unnecessary.

"After a duel in the Matrix, Neo submits to Smith, allowing the rogue program to copy himself over him. Now directly connected, the Deus Ex Machina suddenly pulls the plug from Neo/Smith's head jack, effectively killing Neo, and returning both The One and Smith to The Source, completely erasing Smith."'

Smith imprinting himself onto Neo allowed Smith to be deleted as he was briefly connected to the Source through Neo's body (for programs to be deleted they must return to the source). It seems a simple and logical explanation to me, and considering it's presentation as fact in that article, I see no need for the theories in the Interpretation section, most of which are probably unverified and original research anyway. - Chipstick 16:48, 10 September 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Sloka and meaning included

The Sanskrit sloka which is used in the credits part is mentioned along with the translation and can be verified by Googling and also the possible interpretations with respect to Neo are included. Thanks Sudharsansn 15:10, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] IMDB rating removed

as http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Films/archive4#Infobox_IMDb_rating Z3u2 06:08, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "Last Exile" reference

I deleted the comments re "Last Exile". First, discussion belongs here, not in the article. Second, Wikipedia has a policy of no No Original Research. I don't have a problem with the comment in and of itself; just find a valid source, and then feel free to put it back in.

[edit] Interpretation section

This entire section appears to be original research. ---Jackel 21:01, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Yes, it is. Their only references were links to some forums. I scrubbed it. In the event that someone finds a notable analysis, they can add it in. Sockatume 17:22, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Plot

Under the plot section, I have trouble reading this statement: "You guessed it, Neo wins. With a very clever move based on the movie's tagline." Can someone perhaps modify it? --ToKnow 04:36, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] oracle's batch of cookies.

Hi there. I removed this line:

As he enters, the Oracle expresses that she had hoped that the batch of cookies that she was baking had been finished before Neo arrived, perhaps a hint that with her metamorphosis she can no longer predict the future as easily.

My comment for removing this is: perhaps, perhaps, perhaps... Highly unencyclopedic. VdSV9•♫ 19:32, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

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