Talk:The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time Master Quest

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Video games. For more information, visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.	CVG Portal
Start	This article has been rated as Start-Class on the assessment scale.
Low	This article is on a subject of low priority within gaming for inclusion in Wikipedia 1.0.
CVG To-do: edit  Gaming Collaboration of the week: Baldur's Gate series Expand: New CVG Articles, Normality, Pac-Man World 2, Operation Flashpoint: Elite, Call of Juarez, Galactic Civilizations II: Dark Avatar, Ford Street Racing, Betrayal at Krondor CVG Peer Review: List of F-Zero titles, Kya: Dark Lineage, Wii Remote, Dynasty Warriors 4, The Sims 2, The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past, Kirby's Dream Land, Electronic sports, Fire Emblem, Dante (Devil May Cry), The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion, Final Fantasy XII, Sonic the Hedgehog (16-bit), Classes in World of Warcraft Cleanup: Age of Mythology, Mario Kart: Double Dash!!, Betrayal at Krondor, List of Nintendo trademarks Merge: Deletions / Essential articles / Magazines Assess and Prioritise articles (Log)

	This article is part of WikiProject Nintendo, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to Nintendo related merchandise and video games on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.
Start	This article has been rated as Start-Class on the assessment scale.

This article is part of WikiProject The Legend of Zelda series, an attempt to improve Wikipedia's articles related to The Legend of Zelda series. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.

Perhaps someone who knows Japanese could add a sentence somewhere regarding the meaning of "Ura" in the expansion pack's title. --69.234.212.59 02:46, 28 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Done! Master Thief Garrett^Talk 14:50, 24 May 2005 (UTC)

Contents 1 Merge with Master quest artical 2 Master Quest on the computer 3 Quick Level Edit/"Cop Out" 4 64DD (re: User:69.220.152.216's edits 5 Missing Peahats as young Link? 6 Bonus videos 7 Game select screenshot

[edit] Merge with Master quest artical

since this is about the master quest game that was released on GameCube should this artical then be merged with the master quest artical?--ZeWrestler 02:04, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Um, well, some fans think Master Quest was just a cheap cop-out to make us all shut up about this lost game. Having said that, both articles are short enough that a merge would be fine. Master Thief Garrett^Talk 00:34, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I've merged it now. And moved this talk page too, since it didn't already have one. Master Thief Garrett^Talk 00:42, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Idiots, This shouldn't be merged, it's a different game, Master Quest is on the Gamecube, And Master Quest was a harder version, this article is about the N64 version, they are completely different things.

[edit] Master Quest on the computer

The following comment was made to explain some recent changes:

"free market" sounds like an acceptable alternative (it isn't, it's illegal)

In my version, "free market" referred to the emulators and game ROMs that let console games be played on the computer. It is indeed against the letter of law, although whether it is "acceptable" or not is a personal opinion.

What concerns me the most is the inconsistency that some Wikipedia users will inevitably run into in this version of the page. For one thing, the Wikipedia entry for "emulation" doesn't explicitly state the illegal nature of game ROMS. On the contrary: the explanation justifies and emphasizes the usefulness of emulators, while only a passing reference is made to licensing issues of system operating software, ie. BIOS and bootstrap ROMs - nothing about the games themselves.

Wikipedia's justification (see quote below) for the use of game ROMs is perfectly applicable to the N64 emulator that plays Master Quest. The N64, this last dinosaur of cartridge-based systems is no longer sold in stores, neither are games for it readily available in venues other than junk auctions and ebay.

But I digress. The point is consistency. If the use of game ROMs (aka "free market") is OK on one page, the same should be conveyed on another page, especially if they are interlinked, as in this case.

A popular use of emulators is to run software and games, often referred to as ROMs, written for hardware that is no longer sold or readily available, such as the Commodore 64 or early Amiga models. Emulating these on modern desktop computers is usually less cumbersome than relying on the original machine, which may be inoperational. However, software licensing issues may require emulator authors to write original software that duplicates the functionality of the original computer's bootstrap ROM and BIOS, often through high-level emulation.

I propose the follwing changes in the disputed paragraph: "...due to inaccuracies in Nintendo's emulator. On the other hand, the freely available fan-made emulators handled the games better than Nintendo's own ad-hoc emulator, because they underwent various bug- and compatibility fixes over several years."

The strength of any encyclopedia is that it provides extensive information on any subject without value judgement. There is a ROM version of Master Quest readily available, and it plays better than Nintendo's quick-fix version. This knowledge should be conveyed to the readers, if only for the sake of completeness.

However, I'll just leave the page as is until I hear some opinions. Just fixing some minor typos for now.

Danubius

Ah, I see now. It wasn't that the paragraph was wrong, merely that it sounds ambiguous. The important thing to convey to the reader is that "free market" does not mean a "completely free and 100% legal" alternative, like, say, Zelda Classic is of the original Zelda.

"...giving access for people who didn't own a GameCube or didn't want to buy ... but had a computer and an N64 emulator."

^^ This sentence said nothing about the fact that this was seen by Nintendo themselves as a smack-on-the-hand no-no, it read like it was merely a cheaper alternative to the purchase, and such a line would no doubt lead readers wondering why any idiot would buy the console and preorder if the PC version was FREE! :) But the changed section you suggest conveys this much better. Sounds fine.

I wasn't aware that the emulation page brushed over legality so vaguely, and certainly it sounds very forgiving. I myself have no beef with emulation of dead consoles, but even so it needs to give a mention of the IDSA etc.'s opinion of the matter or something. Most of this can of course be covered on the ROM image page itself, but talk of Bleem! could be especially good. But I digress... :)

Slightly off the topic, Nintendo's latest plan is that the Revolution emulate old consoles, so Master Quest will no doubt return in a downloadable format, but it'll be their own one this time. This section will no doubt become very confusing as the three flavours of emulation will each give a subtly different experience. Gah. Master Thief Garrett^Talk 05:18, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Okay then, added the info now. :) It's good that you corrected my initial entry; I can see how it could have mislead readers who are unfamiliar with this topic.

I agree with you that the emulation page needs to be supplemented with more info. As it is now, the copyright holders' POV is not represented there adequately. About the future: when (if) the Revolution will start emulating older Nintendo consoles, perhaps a separate paragraph on the various versions of MQ could sort out the confusion here. :)

[edit] Quick Level Edit/"Cop Out"

This paragraph:

Whether Master Quest is actually the end result of the Ura Zelda project or merely a quick level-edit to quiet demands and entice preorders is a matter of debate among fans. One significant piece of evidence against it being Ura Zelda is that ROM rips of the game show the game to be the same number of megabits in size as a standard Ocarina of Time ROM, whereas the original concept was to include content above and beyond what an N64 cartridge could possibly hold. It also did not contain any of the promised additional enemies.

Seems to condradict an earlier paragraph that states that Ura Zelda was never supposed to be anything more than a dungeon layout change. It seems to me that what this paragraph is really saying is that some fans confuse Ura Zelda with Zelda Gaiden, and since they were expecting Zelda Gaiden, and got Ura Zelda, they were dissapointed. Is there any evidence to the contrary?

I'm going to remove this paragraph for now, and if I can find a way to reword it to be more accurate as to the above information, I will (but my early attempts at this haven't gone well, I'll probably just remove it and let someone else rework it if they so desire). Fieari July 8, 2005 19:36 (UTC)

Zelda Gaiden was actually the working title for Majora's Mask. I remember reading about it in a gaming magazine once. The description of what Master Quest was supposed to be sounds an awful lot like what Majora's Mask turned out to be. Both started out as 64DD expansions to Ocarina of Time but were scrapped for that system, both are larger and more sophisticated than OoT (MM required the N64 Expansion Pak if you recall), both add new items and enemies while modifying existing ones, and both add new areas and dungeons. The only major difference between the Ura Zelda presumed in this article and the Zelda Gaiden to which you are referring is the belief that it took place in Hyrule, which MM clearly does not, it takes place in an alternate dimension of sorts called Termina.Justin The Claw 19:00, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

I don't remember where I read this, so I cannot source it, thus I'm not adding it, but I seem to recall Miyamoto saying that UraZelda was going to be amazing and an example he gave was, how, in most games if you're walking in sand, you can walk around for a little bit and leave footprints behind, but those footprints dissappear after a short while. In UraZelda, he planned for those footprints to stay. If you smash a sign in one area and come back to it later, that sign will still be smashed. Things like that.

I am of the opinion that The "Master Quest" isn't everything planned for UraZelda. But that's just my humble opinion... 71.244.180.131

I don't have proof on hand right now, though I'm sure I can dig up an article on my computer that has quotes (maybe...). However, I can offer this point: Ura-Zelda required a new cartridge to be used. This meant, at the very least, an additional 8MB of game data. It would be a tremendous waste of Nintendo's money and resources to use an 8MB cartridge and N64 Disk Drive hardware to modify the placement of objects and enemies in various dungeons. Through extensive hacking, we've learned how to do the exact same thing that Nintendo did with Master Quest. This could have been done easily in a month or two with just a few people on the team. Ura-Zelda, however, was in production for around two years. Not only that, but the changes themselves would've only used up at most a megabyte of space. Surely they could've added on more than just that for a DD release in the making for several years. Master Quest or not, there's just no way Nintendo can justify this being Ura-Zelda. 67.190.250.183

[edit] 64DD (re: User:69.220.152.216's edits

I'm fairly certain that Master Quest did indeed come out on the 64DD in Japan, yes? Thus, the article should be reverted to before User:69.220.152.216's edits? The Missing Link 02:52, 4 August 2005 (UTC)

No. There was never *any* release of "Ura Zelda" or "Master Quest" for the Nintendo 64DD.Rhindle The Red 17:29, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

The N64 Disk Drive was pretty much abandoned before Ura-Zelda could even be released. Had they thought the release of the game would garner interest, they would've pushed for it. But due to abysmal sales in Japan and little sales interest in the future releases, they cancelled the N64DD and all games intended for it.

[edit] Missing Peahats as young Link?

Do I need my eyes checked? When ever I play the Master quest version there is no peahats (flying enemy) on hyrule feild! I thought maybe be this happened due too a poor emulation but... When I switch to the normal version on the disk there back? Is it possible that they where removed from ura zelda because they thought the it didn't add anything? 207.118.191.107 23:16, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

There are a lot of changes like that throughout Master Quest. Enemies are completely gone from a couple of other areas, but twice as many appear in other areas. Nintendo's emulator on the disc does not have -any- problems running the game, especially considering that Nintendo actually made the N64 hardware themselves. FyreWulff 21:15, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bonus videos

The disc comes with videos of other games for example my Aus version has a trailer for Metroid Prime, LOZ Alttp and a collage of other gamecube games, other regions discs I believe have F zero GX. A section on these movies would be ideal if we can find info on all versions.Atirage 07:45, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Just checked my own NA disc. Videos for Wind Waker (GCN), Metroid Prime (GCN), F-Zero (GCN) (It's listed as F-Zero, but, of course, it's F-Zero GX), 1080º: Avalanche (GCN), Wario World (GCN), a collection of GCN short-vids called "Hot Clips" (Wind Waker, Metroid Prime, Star Fox Adventures, James Bond NightFire, TimeSplitters 2, Star Wars RS2, Madden 2003, All-Star Baseball 2004, Tiger Woods, Wario World, Super Mario Sunshine, Mario Party 4, Smash Bros. Melee, F-Zero, Need for Speed Hot Prusit 2, 1080º Avalanche, Tony Hawk PS4, Phantasy Star 1 & 2, Harry Potter and CoS and Super Monkey Ball 2 - there might be some type-os in there, I was typing them fast as they rushed onto the screen., and, finally, Link to the Past (GBA). 70.106.204.245 02:14, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Game select screenshot

The screenshot of the game select screen looks out of proportion, as if it had been stretched to fit a widescreen TV/monitor. Can anyone take a new screenshot that is in correct proportion to replace it? Justin The Claw 18:47, 5 February 2007 (UTC)