Talk:The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen timeline

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This article was nominated for deletion on 21 January 2007. The result of the discussion was Keep.

Contents 1 Separate Membership Listings? 2 Good Idea! 3 Idea 4 My Two Bits 5 Avoiding deletion 6 Avoiding Deletion II

[edit] Separate Membership Listings?

Not surprisingly, the timeline itself got to be a huge article. It will get bigger once part III comes out. Why don't we give the membership listings its own article too? It, too, would be linked from the primary LOEG article.

Scarlet Lioness 04:26, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

This seems a good idea. This entry is 100kb and strikes me as being voerly long. I dropped a few ideas in above but the thing that strikes me as unnecessary is the section "Bibliography of the League Members" all the informaiton is (or should be) at the relevant entry dealing with each character. It could easily be trimmed down to "League Members" with an overview of the differnt leagues and a list of the members. All the bibliography does is replicate information already posted elsewhere. Obviously then the next step would be splitting this information off into another entry. This would help reduce teh size of this entry and also futureproof it from further developments/ (Emperor 19:37, 27 February 2007 (UTC))

[edit] Good Idea!

I only intended the part at the bottom to be a bibliography of the League Members, I never thought it's size would be comparable to the Timeline's size itself. But it is... --Khat Wordsmith 07:50, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Idea

I have an idea; I'm going to merge the list of references in the New Traveler's Almanac that I started working on in the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, article (I think I got to about France before I collapsed from exhaustion) with this the content of this article, and redirect it all to a page called something like Timeline, Geography, and Bibliography of The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen. How's that sound? I'm bored, so I'll probably start work on it now, but it will probably take me a while to complete. Sinatra Fonzarelli 21:25, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

The basic idea sounds good to me--that of moving this reference material to separate articles. But, I note that both the primary LOEG article and the Timeline are already longer than the Wikipedia recommendations. How about a set of articles like this:

• The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen
  • Volume 1
  • Volume 2
  • The New Traveller's Almanac
  • Volume 3 (eventually)
• The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen Geography
• The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen Timeline (break out sections as the current Timeline article does)
• The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen Group Memberships (maybe distinguish between documented groups from the LOEG text, and the more speculative groups?)
• The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen Bibliography (covers all characters of note, not just those in the listed groups, like Ishmael or Gullivar Jones)

Of course, they get cross-linked. From the primary article, we could use those "main article" tags. Subsections shown aren't all that would be present, I just wanted to account for the pieces we've been discussing.

Scarlet Lioness 22:34, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] My Two Bits

That would be great, but I think the set of articles should contain two separate sights for The New Traveller's Almanac and one for the League Member Bibliography, this in Addition to the LOEG main page, the Geography page, and the timeline and group membership page. This way the group membership page, the timeline and main page won't need to be cluttered up with the League's long bibliography, but can just have a quick link to it. And the reason I think the NTA page would be a good idea is that it would give an overall sense of the Almanac and where it's contents go within it.

So it would be something like this

• The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen

• The New Traveller's Almanac
• The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen Geography
• The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen Timeline
• The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen Group Memberships

• The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen Member Bibliography (with this one serving as a subsidiary to the others above)

Plus, there could be another list page with a bibliography of like fashion with ALL the characters shown in LOEG. Like Pollyanna and Dr. Jim Grey, etc. --Khat Wordsmith 00:46, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

• I picture it more like this:

• • The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen
    • Inside that article, a brief description of the New Traveler's almanac, similar to the one here, before the list starts. (I don't think it needs it's own article)
  • A seperate article, that should, ideally, have a list of all of the literary references in The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, a timeline of the major events in the world, and a geography of all of the fictional places in the world. (Or at least the major ones, not every single town mentioned in chapter 1 of the almanac, for example). Sinatra Fonzarelli 00:57, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

It's a good idea. But I still see there being some side articles coming out of this. --Khat Wordsmith 02:11, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Good thoughts, and I've redone my suggested set of articles above to try to account for this. Some of the things I considered:

• The individual articles shouldn't get horrendously long
• I finally figured out what I found confusing about the existing Bibliography--it was conflating two sets of information together, the group memberships and the characters' bibliographies. Seemed better to separate them into two articles.
• You're right about the New Traveller's Almanac. It's more properly treated as a section of the story itself, rather than as a separate reference compendium.

--Scarlet Lioness 02:51, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Avoiding deletion

I'm not 100% sure this is the way to go - propose it for deletion or drop tags in asking for cleanups. However, given that they are there I'd favour keeping the entry but it needs fixing. My thoughts:

• I see no reason for character bibliography as most of them have entries with those details in. It also makes no real sense being here. I'd say trim it right down and move it to List of characters in The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen

• Source as much as posisble. There are there are two books and a comprehensive site so it should be possible to source most statements. A number of things are labelled as speculation which gives a bad impression. If they are speculation by the editors then they need to go if they are specullation by Jess Nevins (or someone with similar authority) otherwise it is original research.

On a slightly broader front I do wonder about whether Wikipedia is a place for something like this. Its good and interesting but seems like the kind of thing one might find on a fan site and not in an encyclopedia. As it is here it might as well stay but it needs work. (Emperor 22:51, 17 January 2007 (UTC))

[edit] Avoiding Deletion II

I'm going through the timeline to weed out any needless speculation and fanfic. I will only keep what can be traced back to Moore and O'Neill's 2 volumes as well as what they've confirmed in interviews, with some exceptions. If you have contributed and feel your contributions are confirmed by the Author's work and not merely speculation please let me know or edit with a concise, and specific reference. One entry that doesn't make sense, for example, is the date of the Bellman Expedition, which conflicts with the date given in Moore's Almanac. Considering that the Almanac consists of 6 chapters it will take me a fair amount of time to read them all twice and make sure the chronology is as accurate as possible.FourtySixNtwo 18:54, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

It would also be wise to source everything - if they come from the main story or the Almanac or Jess Nevins. Making use of footnotes. It us working towards important principles like Verifiability. (Emperor 19:05, 24 January 2007 (UTC))

I plan on being as specific as I can with my references. The main story shouldn't be part of the timeline because it is represented chronologically within the 2 volumes. I will also avoid speculation by Mr. Nevins and fans unless it has a firm basis.FourtySixNtwo 19:33, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Tip/suggestion for editing and keeping entries trim: I noticed that everytime a literary character is mentioned in the timeline we give references to both the book he's drawn from as well as the the Almanac or League volume in parenthesis. This takes up room and is unnecessary. Instead we should link the characters name with the bracket tags (as it is done with Moore's name for example) to the literary source and then cite the League reference. The only time we should reference the literary work is during a brief description of the events of his/her story, (like Quartermain's search for Solomon's Mines). Another example would be Jack Harkaway, as far as I can tell he's mentioned only 2 or 3 times in the League, if you want to enter the year he posed for the portrait in the League's meuseum the only reference there should be in parenthesis on that entry is the League work, while you can link Harkaway's name to the literary work, with brackets or ref tags. I hope that makes sense and helps, let me know if you think this is ridiculous.

Also I just edited the 1897 entry and i think Italicizing the parts of the entry that come directly from the League Volumes would be a great way of differentiating League canon from the works Moore draws from, as that was a concern of Nareek's. FourtySixNtwo 20:18, 26 January 2007 (UTC)