Talk:The King in Yellow

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Contents 1 Merge 1.1 The other article 1.1.1 External links: 1.2 End of other article 1.2.1 Copy of history 1.2.2 Sequence of merging 1.3 HPL 'graphs 2 King in Yellow - Play or Book? 3 Maintenance 3.1 Attention needed 3.2 Original research 3.3 Contradictory 3.4 Removed from article 3.5 Significance of the color Yellow 4 Infuence of Sympbolism

[edit] Merge

Following the heading is the complete text of King in Yellow, which i have changed to a redirect to this article. --Jerzy(t) 05:41, 2004 Apr 20

[edit] The other article

The King in Yellow is a fictional play from the works of Robert W. Chambers's collection of horror stories by that name. In Chambers's book, those who read the King in Yellow go mad or meet horrible dooms.

After H. P. Lovecraft read the book in 1926, he incorporated it into the Cthulhu Mythos through The Whisperer in Darkness, one of the seminal Mythos stories. August Derleth further developed this conection and tied the King in Yellow to Hastur. In later Mythos materials, the King is an avatar of Hastur, so named from his appearence as a thin, floating man covered in tattered yellow robes.

[edit] External links:

*The King in Yellow by Robert W. Chambers

[edit] End of other article

[edit] Copy of history

For convenience, the following is the history of the former article duplcating this article:

• (cur) (last) . . 05:36, 2004 Apr 20 . . Jerzy (#REDIRECT The King in Yellow (the overwritten article's text has been moved to Talk:The King in Yellow for merging into The King in Yellow))
• (cur) (last) . . 21:38, 2004 Mar 31 . . 62.103.214.152
• (cur) (last) . . m 06:09, 2004 Mar 18 . . Ddama
• (cur) (last) . . m 04:23, 2004 Mar 15 . . Ddama
• (cur) (last) . . 04:19, 2004 Mar 15 . . Ddama
• (cur) (last) . . m 00:29, 2004 Mar 10 . . Chris Roy (H.P. Lovecraft->H. P. Lovecraft)
• (cur) (last) . . m 06:43, 2004 Feb 28 . . Dcoetzee (msg stub)
• (cur) (last) . . 06:41, 2004 Feb 17 . . Dysprosia (fmt)
• (cur) (last) . . 06:40, 2004 Feb 17 . . 24.35.61.191
• (cur) (last) . . 06:40, 2004 Feb 17 . . 24.35.61.191
• (cur) (last) . . 06:38, 2004 Feb 17 . . 24.35.61.191
• (cur) (last) . . 20:24, 2003 Dec 14 . . 80.184.194.203 (typo)
• (cur) (last) . . m 15:23, 2003 Dec 10 . . AlexPlank (This article is a stub. You can help Wikipedia by expanding it.)
• (cur) (last) . . 15:12, 2003 Dec 10 . . 209.173.24.221 (Definition of The King in Yellow)

--Jerzy(t) 05:41, 2004 Apr 20

[edit] Sequence of merging

• 1st 'graph above merged with 1st of this article, and struck out here. --Jerzy(t) 06:16, 2004 Apr 20 (UTC)
• HPL 'graph combined with this article. --Jerzy(t) 06:16, 2004 Apr 20 (UTC)
• External link sections merged --Jerzy(t) 06:23, 2004 Apr 20 (UTC)

[edit] HPL 'graphs

IMO, the 'graphs on HPL from the two articles are neither consistent with each other, nor very far from being consistent. But IMO, the harmonizing of them should be by someone knowing about the subect matter. --Jerzy(t) 06:32, 2004 Apr 20 (UTC)

[edit] King in Yellow - Play or Book?

I checked my copy of Chambers - he quotes scenes and acts, and talks of it as a play. I think Lovecraft and others may have simply referred to it as a book, but the source has it as a play. I've changed the article accordingly. --Rayray 08:20, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

Lovecraft et al probably referred to it as a book because while it is a play, none of the characters ever see it played, only read it. --Maru (talk) Contribs 05:10, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Maintenance

[edit] Attention needed

The appearance of this article could be improved by dividing it into sections.
RlyehRising 01:48, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
— Done! RlyehRising 03:15, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Original research

I am concerned that this article contains original research. Can anyone cite some secondary sources?
-,-~^R'lyehRising~-,- 03:24, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Contradictory

Also, the section on H. P. Lovecraft contains contradictory information. Did he read the book in 1926 or 1927? (And don't think I didn't miss the use of "cited by some"—yet another reference to those nameless, faceless, omniscient sources that know all yet are known to none.)
-,-~^R'lyehRising~-,- 03:24, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

I have removed that 2nd paragraph for now based on its weasel word attribution ish ness. 68.39.174.238 19:44, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

• I recovered the paragraph in question. It reads as follows:

  The book is cited by some as influencing Lovecraft to create his own fictional and dangerous texts like the Necronomicon, although it is now believed that Lovecraft did not actually read Chambers until 1927.

  I suppose my comment about nameless sources sounded a bit gruff; however, if there is a flesh-and-blood reliable source out there who can back this up, please cite it in the article. (I may be able to find this myself; I just haven't gotten around to it.) Though, I hope we can resolve once and for all when Lovecraft read The King in Yellow.
  -,-~^R'lyehRising~-,- 20:19, 4 February 2006 (UTC)
  • Update! Please see next section.
    -,-~^R'lyehRising~-,- 00:25, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

--Regarding people who cite THE KING IN YELLOW as an influence on Lovecraft.. Page 177 of THE ENCYCLOPEDIA OF FANTASY edited by John Clute and John Grant (ISBN 0-312-15897-1) 1997 QUOTE:

This novel (TKINY) likely suggested to Cleveland Moffett (1863-1927) his engimatic THE MYSTERIOUS CARD and certainly influenced many writers of of RWC's and the next generation, especially H.P. Lovecraft.

Hope that helpsLisapollison 15:23, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Removed from article

I removed the following from the article and rewrote the relevant section (incorporating a reference):

After H. P. Lovecraft read the book in 1926, he incorporated it into the Cthulhu mythos through "The Whisperer in Darkness", one of his seminal mythos stories.

One problem is that the passage claims that Lovecraft read The King in Yellow in 1926; however, my source (The Lovecraft Lexicon) says that he read it "in youth". This would seem to make more sense. Lovecraft was exceptionally well-read as a young man, so it seems unlikely that he would wait some 30 years to read Chambers! Since Chamber's book was first published in 1895, no doubt it would have been readily available to a youthful Lovecraft. (However, can anyone cite some other credible reference that disputes this?)
-,-~^R'lyehRising~-,- 00:23, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

• Update. I finally got hold of a reliable source that says that Lovecraft read Chambers in early 1927 (Joshi & Schultz, "Chambers, Robert William", An H. P. Lovecraft Encyclopedia, pp. 38). Hopefully this will finally put the issue to rest.
  -,-~^R'lyehRising~-,- 21:47, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Significance of the color Yellow

I moved down the section about yellow--it didn't seem to fit at the top anyway. I believe that the source for that discussion is Price in the Hastur Cycle--if I don't find it there, I'll cut it. The preceeding unsigned comment by Nareek 07:03, 28 February 2006

• I'll have to take a look at Robert M. Price's essay in The Hastur Cycle. I'm not disputing the accuracy of the information, it's just that it needs a verifiable source to establish its authenticity. I usually leave information alone if it looks like a conclusion that any reader would reach after reading the work. But in this case, it attempts to explain the meaning of the material using specialized knowledge. That's why a reference is needed; so that it doesn't look like original research.
  -,-~^R'lyehRising~-,- 19:41, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

Absolutely--it needs a source if it's to stay. Sorry about the forgotten sig. Nareek 19:50, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Infuence of Sympbolism

Given Chambers' Parisian sejour at the end of the XIXth, and the French setting of some of the stories of the KiY, maybe the article should mention Symbolism ?