Talk:The KLF/Archive 2

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This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Contents 1 Merge? 2 The Libertines 3 Cut Section 4 Wikisource 5 Resources 6 Sources 7 Photos 8 The Pet Shop Boys influence quote. 9 Cquote Template 10 Lori and the Chameleons 11 Timelords / Ford Prefect 12 The_KLF#The_KLF 13 This article is missing... 14 Great minds think alike 15 23! 16 horizontal lines 17 WKTJ? 18 Brits images 19 Wanda Dee 20 Song samples 21 Pictures 22 References 23 Kopyright Liberation Front

Merge?

I think the KLF and related articles are really below par given the impact they had and their fascinating story. Since the JAMs and the Timelords were the same guys doing the same things but with a different name, I think a good start might be to merge The Timelords and the KLF part of the JAMs article into this one. We'd have a longer article and could avoid repetition.

I'm going to redlink a few more of their releases too, or at the very least '1987'. There's lots to say about that album and it was a landmark release in pop music because of the way it highlighted the sampling issue. --kingboyk 20:33, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

merge merge merge...

OK, I've just completed the merge. I'll now do a little editing to remove some of the redundant information which has no doubt been introduced. I probably won't have time to polish the article and to devise a better layout, so if I leave it untidy I'll add a {{cleanup}} template (and come back at a later date). --kingboyk 17:57, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

The Libertines

Has anyone seen an article claiming that Bill Drummond and Jimmy Cauty "mastermined" The Libertines? A friend forwarded it but there's no source... possibly an unpublished/not yet published hoax article! i've mirrored the email here --timeheater 20:40, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

A very amusing hoax. I wish it was true, but until it's published by some reputable sources it stays out of the article :-) --kingboyk 17:01, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

There are interesting links via The Foundry (UK) but I think most people conclude its a hoax - there is a source here[1] and dscussion here[2] but it seems to all stem from the same email doing the rounds and it is doubtful the KLF are even behind it (although it is nicely done) - we'll see what Snopes have to say but the best place for a mention of this might be in an entry on urban legends (if at all) {Emperor 16:14, 20 February 2006 (UTC))

I might end up with egg on my face, and I hope I do because it's a really nice story! However, given Doherty's public profile I don't think it can even be considered urban legend until it's plastered all over the newspapers and music press. This Wikipedia chat was the first I'd heard of it, and I'd normally expect to hear if Doherty had so much as farted within a mile of a crack den! --kingboyk 11:34, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

I think the key bit where you realise it is a hoax is the 'young Buddy Holly impersonator' fact. Robdurbar 11:43, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

Yep, that was the killer for me too. --kingboyk 12:03, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

I heard the hoax on Australian radio - surely if it's made it into mainstream media we could mention it in the article as a hoax hoax? Triki-wiki 02:40, 22 February 2006 (UTC)Triki-wiki

Why don't we wait a while? Will this issue be remembered in a few months, or will it be consigned to the dustbin of history like the *many* silly rumours that have attached themselves to the KLF over the years? Remember, this is an encyclopedia article not the gossip pages.

...that said, a mention on the radio does 'promote' the story some what. Which station was it on? --kingboyk 17:51, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

Cut Section

I've cut the following section from the article:

==Influence, covers etc==
The influence of the KLF on the dance music scene lives on. 

Last Train to Trancentral (Live from the Lost Continent) is used in the finale for [[Blue Man Group]]'s theatrical show. Blue Man Group's ''Complex Rock Tour'' featured pieces from "The Rock Concert Instruction Manual", a tongue-in-cheek deconstruction of pop music & the rock concert experience.

The Austrian pop act [[Edelweiss (band)|Edelweiss]] scored a Europe-wide No.1. hit ''Bring me Edelweiss'' by supposedly following the instructions given in ''[[The Manual]]''.

British band [[The Kaiser Chiefs]] covered the song 'What Time Is Love?' on [[February 14]] [[2006]] on [[BBC Radio 1]].

There's a temptation in wiki to throw in the latest factoids, the latest news, without reflection on their importance. Covers - especially something as trivial as a once off session cover on the radio (!) don't really belong in the main article. Since the songs in question are all in my opinion notable, they can have their own articles and the covers mentioned there (see: Category talk:The KLF, Talk:Last Train To Trancentral, Talk:What Time Is Love?). Edelweiss is already covered in The Manual. --kingboyk 18:10, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

Wikisource

I'm wondering if we could/should post the KLF info sheets and press releases to Wikisource. Does any KLF-interested editor know how Wikisource works, and what the copyright status of a press release is? --kingboyk 21:41, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

Wikisource is pretty tough on copyright issues and they delete things straight away if there is any doubt. Someone published the Manual on wikipedia a while back and I moved it to Wikisource and it got deleted in a week. I doubt the info sheets will survive. Drstuey 10:15, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Resources

Following interesting contemporary articles have not been used in the article:

• NME report on the incident where the KLF gave away the DJ gear at the DMC show in Holland

--kingboyk 20:15, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

Sources

In this and other KLF related articles I have quoted and cited KLF Communications information sheets. I'm not entirely sure what their status is re acceptability. I think Wikipedia:Verifiability#Self-published_sources may apply, which is that they are fine in KLF related articles provided they aren't contradicted by 'superior' secondary sources. I'm sure they are fine as evidence of what The KLF 'said' at the time about their work. Where possible I will quote secondary sources, which is generally the music press such as NME. --kingboyk 18:27, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

Photos

The article has some photos, but not necessarily the best. Can someone provide a shot of the KLF vs ENT Brits performance for example? (Either the whole band, or Bill with machine gun). I have such photos of course but I don't know where they came from, so I can't be sure of copyright. --kingboyk 03:58, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

There used to be photos in KLF articles, but they got deleted, which I suppose is fair enough because they were kopyright violations. Any photos really do need to be copyright-free and they need to come direct from the photographer. There's nothing relevant on Flickr. There are a few fan photos online from such events as the 1997 Barbican performance - they would be copyright-free. Drstuey

Hey man! You're the librarian of Library of Mu aren't you? A big "thank you" if you are, we couldn't have got this far without that site. I think we're doing okay for pictures now, but of course if some better ones show up we'll use them. Good portraits of Bill and Jim for their solo articles would be nice though. --kingboyk 10:31, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

The Pet Shop Boys influence quote.

It's from the liner notes to the Indie Top Music collection (or whatever) that KSTJ appears on. Perhaps someone else has a copy and can add the appropriate citation before I dig out my copy, which may be a while. --juli. ^{t ?} 05:09, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

It's "Indie Top 20 Volume 8" (1990), a UK record published by Beechwood Music, # TT08. Apparently the quote is not attributed to anyone, however. Not sure whether that's a problem...? Vinoir 09:43, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

OK, as a quote needing a citation it's hardly an important one :) so we can let it pass for now. Hopefully a better source will come up later (such as when I finish trawling through the Library of Mu). A sleevenote on an el cheapo compilation label probably does't cut it, I'd have thought. I'm sure I've seen a better source somewhere though and it'll appear like magic one of these days... --kingboyk 10:27, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

I was pretty sure it was specifically attributed to one of Bill or Jimmy, but maybe it was just attributed to "The KLF" there. Now, who wrote up the liner notes isn't attributed, but that isn't necessary. Anyway, you're right, it's minor. Somebody, speaking on behalf of The KLF, said it! --juli. ^{t ?} 11:11, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

<-- References now number 13. What say I stop at 23? :) --kingboyk 17:02, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Haha. That would be great. A day or two after I made that first edit about '23' it dawned on me that you may have intended to leave this subject slightly more covert, shall we say? If this were true, of course I would have no problem with the more obvious references to 23 being removed, and just a 23 (numerology) link remaining in the text, for example...? ;-) --Vinoir 18:43, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Oh no, not at all. It's nice to have a bit of a fun on the talk page - and you can be sure that if I hit 22 references and consider the job done I'll find an extra one to add - but I have perfectly serious amibitions for the article (featured status) so your edits were more than welcome :-) Great work on Shag Times by the way. Almost eveything of importance is blue linked now, I think the only important ones left red are Doctorin' The Tardis and Brilliant (band). --kingboyk 19:12, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Absolutely right it should get to featured status. That and the discography (although there's a sticky point there, see my comment on Talk:KLF discography). I'll have a look at The KLF article today, to see what thoughts/actions I can offer. --Vinoir 10:42, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

23 references was a bit of a wide estimate, lol. I now reckon it'll be more like 65 when we've finished. (And hopefully that won't be our ages by the time the job is done!) --kingboyk 18:09, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Cquote Template

I stumbled across the {{cquote}} in the Pink Floyd article, and I've used it here for the paragraph long quotes from Drummond. What do you think? Please revert if you think it detracts from the appearance. --kingboyk 15:16, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

Looks good to me. Personally I'm a fan of the old italics but it isn't the policy here and fair enough too. Certainly, the longer quotes benefit from some delineation and I think those jumbo quotemarks do the trick very nicely. --Vinoir 17:56, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

Lori and the Chameleons

I have a single by the above named group (a: Touch / b: Love on the Ganges - to the best of my memory, I can't find the box at present!) on the Zoo! label. It was produced by The Chameleons who appear to be Drummond and Balfe. My question is, is this early electro pop an early KLF type musical enterprise and could be recorded in this article - or is it a candidate for the Drummond article which already mentions the Balfe connection? In the meantime I will try and find the box of records this single is in.LessHeard vanU 16:45, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

Possibly Zoo Records because AFAIK The Chamaleons was the name used by Drummond and Balfe when producing Zoo artists. Or, a new article (if there's enough to say about them). Or into Bill Drummond and David Balfe. Not into The KLF please as this article is about the work of Bill and Jim as a duo and The Chamaleons are pretty unremarkable all told. --kingboyk 16:56, 8 April 2006 (UTC) (PS: A fellow WP:Beatles participant who also has a KLF interest? Who'd have thought it?! :) )

[3] --kingboyk 17:21, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

I'm now not so sure it was on the Zoo! label, since I have Bouncing Babies by The Teardrop Explodes on that label and I remember it looking different. I have been looking for that box of records - this is driving me nuts!

I noted the KLF reference when I peeked at your userpage. My wife is the KLF fan in our household, plus early Teardrop. I prefered Echo (and the various incarnations of Wah!). I have an interest in Big in Japan, but only because the drummer joined my favourite band Siouxsie and the Banshees. ps. SatB have covered 3 Beatles songs in their career! ;~)LessHeard vanU 17:39, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

Dear Prudence, of course - a tremendous record, I remember it well from my nights frequenting dark indie clubs :-) All (most) record releases relating to The KLF are well documented in the KLF discography which you might want to take a peak at. Wah!? That's Pete Wylie isn't it (yep, so I'll make a redirect in a moment). Wylie did the vocals on the original clubs only release of "It's Grim Up North"! What a small incestuous world these musicians live in :-)

Lori & The Chameleons: Touch
  [Dec 1979] single

    7":    1979 UK (Zoo/Sire Records SIR 4025)
                Touch
                Love On The Ganges

    7":    1981 UK (Korova/WEA KOW 20) [Oct 1981]

   12":    1981 UK (Korova/WEA KOW 20T) [Oct 1981]
                Touch
                The Lonely Spy
                Love In The Ganges

--kingboyk 17:53, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

Might be the Korova release, then. Yes, Wah! is Pete Wylie, the third Crucial Three along with Ian McCulloch and Julian Cope. The other Beatles songs covered by SatB are Twist and Shout which forms part of The Lords Prayer on "Join Hands", and Helter Skelter on "The Scream" (Sioux sings "...you ain't no fucking dancer!"). This means that Budgie only plays on Dear Prudence.LessHeard vanU 18:15, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

I found it! It has an otherwise plain Sire sleeve and label (SIR 4025), with a small Zoo! icon on the label as well but also with a Korova cow icon too. Ah well, I'll have a look at the various Drummond, Balfe, Zoo and Korova articles and see if there is any reason to include it.LessHeard vanU 20:33, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

Had a listen to it yesterday and I like it (she has a cute voice). Same goes for the only Big in Japan track I have. Can't say much for Jimmy's pre-KLF exploits with Brilliant though! --kingboyk 20:45, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

Timelords / Ford Prefect

I recall it from an interview, which would likely have appeared in either The New Musical Express or The Face, with KLF. I don't have the copies to hand. If this is unable to be verified by anyone else then remove it.LessHeard vanU 09:37, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

The_KLF#The_KLF

The KLF section needs expanding, and converting from it's "list" format into prose. Thinking about it I fear that would count against the article being classed as "good". Thoughts? --kingboyk 17:37, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

Agreed. I think that The_KLF#The_KLF and The_KLF#Mythology and references need work. The latter is more problematic but this is less detectable to the eyes of someone unfamiliar with the band. The KLF section can have a bit of a facelift quite quickly. In fact, I'll have a go right now... --Vinoir 10:59, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

Done...I hope that this reads better, and is comprehensive without being over-detailed. --Vinoir 12:44, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

Looks great to me at first glance. I'll give it some more thorough attention later or tommorow. Cheers mate, another job well done. --kingboyk 02:30, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

This article is missing...

• more on origins, how/when did they first meet, what where they doing before. -- Done. kingboyk
• more on legacy - what was their long-term influence, who was inspired by them or influenced by them and how/why. -- Long term influence on them? Gosh, don't think I've ever heard anyone mentioned! (Except Elvis of course! :)). Influenced by them, we're working on it. kingboyk
• musical style is not neatly explained anywhere (scattered throughout article right now). -- Is this still a problem? Let's fix if it is. kingboyk
• would be useful to have one short section explaining instruments they used, genres of music they went into, also who influenced *them*? -- Instruments. Got yer White Room album handy? I know it was SSL, Akai S900, Oberheim OB8. kingboyk
• more quotes from drummound, cauty, anybody they worked with, positive & negative reviews from the press, any other musicians like them/hate them? could go in a "response" section. -- Quotes from other people would be nice. For starters, I'll see if anything from the Sound on Sound article could be used. kingboyk

p.s. the lead should just summarize the article. right now it explains things that dont appear anywhere else in the article body, this should be changed so its *just a summary*. and there shouldnt be any short pgraphs (one or two sentences). also some of the sections that have their own article are over-summarized right now, they could do with being a bit more fleshed out. -- Working on this kingboyk

otherwise article is preety good! Zzzzz 15:15, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

I hope Zzzzz won't mind, but let's use his suggestions as something of a todo list. --kingboyk 22:05, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. You did a pretty good job with your refactoring, the only thing I could disagree with was the zapping of the "gleeful political tactics" sentence as it was rather nice prose I thought :) (and not written by me). You've given plenty of food for thought, too. With regards to reviews, we've quoted plenty (good and bad) throughout the albums and singles articles. --kingboyk 15:59, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

i didnt zap it its in the "origins" section! Zzzzz 16:01, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Oh aye! hehe. Sorry. --kingboyk 16:08, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

The articles in the Library of Mu that review The KLF's whole career will prove handy for reviews on The KLF page too. All the comments are really useful, and the changes to the article are wise moves, although I must admit I quite liked some of the images being situated on the left - is the left-alignment considered bad practice? --Vinoir 16:11, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

I prefer them placed alternately left and right too. I don't think there's a guideline on it but I might be wrong. --kingboyk 16:16, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

I think it seems to imbalance the aesthetics of the article to right-justify all of them. Haven't found a guideline yet - there's none at Wikipedia:Images. --Vinoir 16:28, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

I think we've fixed most of Z's criticisms now; in particular I am (even if I do say so myself) quite pleased with the Legacy section! We could use a few more quotes from their peers, but I guess they'll turn up as I trawl through the Library of Mu. We don't say which Atari computer they use (entirely from memory, was it ST-20? Anyway, I think it's on the White Room sleevenotes). The Themes section desperately needs a rewrite. We could use some song clips. Basically, though, I think we've done most of what he suggested. When we're happy that we've done it all, we must invite him back for further review! --kingboyk 07:43, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Great minds think alike

I opened up this article in a Firefox tag ready to work on it later, my task being to expand The_KLF#Origins_and_motivation and give some background on Bill and Jimmy, move in some of the quotes from the JAMs section, etc., and what do I find? {{inuse}} and user:Vinoir already doing it! (This is most definitely not a complaint, by the way!!! :-)) --kingboyk 17:13, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Bizarre! "Great minds", as you say. Although mine's not feeling quite so great now. It's been slow but methodical progress for me today. I'm only halfway through The JAMs as it is, but the brain isn't doing any more for now, so please do feel free to take over and do as you please with any of it. I hope it's turning into the kind of thing you were also intending. Hope that you're still inspired to do your thing with it too. :-)

I haven't touched the introduction yet, because I'm not quite sure what will end up needing to be there, although I suspect it'll require some statements of their musical and artistic significance. I can also see that we need to tell their story on the main KLF page in some detail, so that there'll be some quotes which appear in both this article and satellite articles (e.g. in 1987, The Man etc)... but I don't think that's a problem. --Vinoir 18:09, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

I work better this way, touching up what you've already written. And, coicidentally, you've factored it pretty much exactly as I'd planned anyway (introduce Bill and Jimmy, move in the "how the JAMs started" quote, and then get down to business in the JAMs section).

With regards to the intro, I think it goes some way to explaining their notoriety. As for influence on other bands, I'm not sure there was a huge amount and it might be better in the body?? --kingboyk 20:18, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

I agree that there's not many bands pop up and cite KLF as an influence. :-) We might find a good few who like them, I suppose - that would involve some clever Googling - but I'm not sure that alone (or even with the Eidelweiss thing) would merit the Legacy section. On the other hand, we've called them seminal with reference to 1987, "What Time Is Love?" and "Chill Out", so we could describe their legacy on the genres of samplism, ambient house and acid house/trance. But it's tricky, I don't know of any sources beyond reviews + Mixmag's #5 placing. --Vinoir 20:39, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Their influence is more on the broadsheet readers really isn't it? Also, the genre of pop dance seems to have declined somewhat since their departure (and The Shamen losing their way after Boss Drum - not to mention the CJA, the emergence of grunge, and other things which killed the scene for a while). I personally would rather leave it as it is than to try and find tenuous links to modern bands. Such things read as fancruft a lot of the time. We've demonstrated how unique they are, how they were trailblazers, how Drummond - quite frankly - didn't give a fuck for the rules; they clearly are way past the scale for WP:MUSIC notability. Do we need to start listing crap like 1300 Drums, Kaiser Chiefs doing a cover on Radio 1, the EMF "Live at Trancentral" KLF-inspired mix I remember from way back when, etc etc? --kingboyk 20:49, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Oh I dunno, maybe we should. The "Legacy" section is looking pretty bleak. Anyway I'm done with editing your new work, next stop "Themes" and "Legacy" (or a redlinked article near you!). --kingboyk 21:04, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

I've just read from the introduction down to the end of "Post-retirement" and I think it's wonderful. 18th Feb version (which, incidentally, has a "covers and influences" section that I zapped!), 13th April. --kingboyk 21:29, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

It's looking nice mate. It's fantastic to see it really take shape, and really encouraging that we seem to be thinking the same way about it. Good recollections with the instrumentation section too! --Vinoir 00:51, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

23!

We did it. We now have exactly 23 references in the article. I suspect more will be forthcoming, so here's the permanent link for posterity: [4]. The Mgmt. --kingboyk 21:16, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Are you working on an article, or a homage? (Grin)LessHeard vanU 21:45, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Nah, we just thought it would be humourous to stop at 23, given that number's significance in their history. We won't though, of course :) Not a homage (and I believe we've documented the good with the bad) but we want to get Featured Article status, and that means citations - lots of 'em! --kingboyk 21:48, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

horizontal lines

i see there is lots of horizontal lines manually inserted in the article. what are they for? Zzzzz 21:55, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Because for TOC purposes I want the sections to be at === level, but that level doesn't add a line rule. It's messy without the seperation. The sections are too long to be free flowing. --kingboyk 23:21, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

WKTJ?

"melody theft"? What do you mean and do you have examples/citations? I'm also thinking we should lose the "KLF Communications" if we're gonna mention the label in the preceding paragraph? --kingboyk 03:24, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

I'm sure they sing new words to old tunes a lot more on WKTJ?; can't think of particular examples offhand but will report back. I may not be around for much editing tomorrow or Saturday.

Regarding the 1988 JAMs hiatus and the "not being on a crusade" quote, my reasoning to move it from The KLF section is that it gives a nice contrasting link into the last paragraph, which reports that they're bracketed with the 'creative plagiarists' and produced seminal work.

The article came on leaps and bounds. Nice one! --Vinoir 04:23, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

I don't know about the origins of the tunes on WKTJ? There's not much I personally recognise, but that doesn't mean anything :) Do we have a samples list/composition credits for this album? (Again, alas, my collection is boxed up at my parents house, I only have MP3s).

I was thinking when in bed last night that we might be getting too carried away with documenting sampling and "theft", and perhaps giving the impression that there was nothing original about the JAMs work. That, of course, just isn't true. "Justified and Ancient" goes all the way back to 1987 as does the "Me Ru Con" chant (an original vocal by a Burmese friend??). WKTJ? has a lot of original backing vocals and instrumentation; it's more original than sample-based I would have thought. --kingboyk 18:14, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

It is important to get across the originality of their musical work, given the "sampling" and "Illuminatus! refs" elements of the article - I'll make sure this happens. --Vinoir 07:19, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Download the vids from the link listed and get a glimpse of them working in the studio. It's pretty cool - Jimmy at the controls, Bill spouting off crazy ideas (and getting the rapper to pretend he's the Sherriff of Mu County! :)) You can see the keyboards stacked up and the sequencer screen. They were still men on a mission then. --kingboyk 07:31, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Brits images

We mention the performance in some detail, so I have no doubt a screencap is fair use. Unfortunately my copy of the performance is very low res. These are the best I could do (I've chosen the Bill shot for now, as it's the clearest) -

--kingboyk 20:00, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

Wanda Dee

Oh my God, look at this bullshit! [5] She got a newspaper to believe that - because a few words of hers were sampled ("wanna see you sweat", one other line I forget not) and because she got a co-writing credit due to that - she is the songwriter and musician behind The KLF! (Of course, most of their collaborators are well known and did get their fair credit - would the world know of Ricardo da Force or MC Bello or Nick Coler if not for that?). Anywayz, there's a source but I hope we can find some other more reasonable sources too. --kingboyk 22:17, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

I saw some sources in the Library of Mu; this'll go nicely in "Legacy". Utah Saints will go in that section too. --Vinoir 07:21, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Yikes, if you must! Better throw in N-Trance too, God help us! --kingboyk 07:26, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Pity Wikipedia hasn't got an "embarrassed mumble" template. --Vinoir 07:44, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Lol! How about very small text or ROT13? :) --kingboyk 07:47, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Haha. Both. --Vinoir 07:58, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Here's a source for KLF imposters and ripoff merchants (including Wanda Dee) [6]. I've not used this one yet Vinoir, you can have it! :) --kingboyk 01:58, 27 April 2006 (UTC) More sources for legancy and influence: [7], [8] (second one probably no good). --kingboyk 02:09, 27 April 2006 (UTC) Here's Jimmy talking about it [9]. I suggest just including her in the "Personell" section with a short quote from her or the press about the claims, and Jimmy's quite amusing rebuttal. --kingboyk 08:42, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

Song samples

To fit in nicely with the text, we need samples of Whitney, the original All You Need Is Love, the KLF at the Brits, 2K, The Magnificent, and I think one from each album? --kingboyk 07:29, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

I'm more than happy to do that, but I don't currently have Nero (with which I'm familiar for that task) with me. I'll try to find another tool; do you know offhand if Windows Media Player will do it? --Vinoir 07:24, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

I don't know how it's done. Best check the Wikipedia help pages. It has to be OGG format I think. --kingboyk 07:25, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

OK, cool. --Vinoir 07:43, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Pictures

Do we have enough/too many now, or could the article stand the inclusion of the "Why Sheep?" photo? I have a copy ready to upload if it's wanted. --kingboyk 21:30, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

"Why Sheep?" sounds great to me. The article length warning is appearing, but I don't think we're overlong. --Vinoir 07:22, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

I think we're doing OK on text length. I'll up the picture later. --kingboyk 07:33, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

References

When we've "finished" we need to clean up and standardise our references (this means in part "man, I should go read the guidelines"). I favour Author, article name in quotes (NO italics), publication name, date, link. Author and publication should be wiki-linked if they have or deserve an article. --kingboyk 22:04, 17 April 2006 (UTC) OK this one ought to be obvious! Full date for newspapers and journals, should somebody actually want to go and look at the original in a library. No rounding to year! Fine for books but not for newspapers. Stand in the corner with your back turned to the class for half an hour Vinoir! :P hehe --kingboyk 22:07, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Haha. :) Yes, those refs definitely need standardising soon. --Vinoir 07:47, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Kopyright Liberation Front

Hmmm. Looking at The KLF 1987 Completeist List, there's actually no mention of "Kopyright Liberation Front". --Vinoir 02:43, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

Maybe it was in an Info Sheet then? It definitely sprang up somewhere! OK, I'm at home for a day or so, what do I need to be looking for? It is just the sleevenotes of The Man? What about songwriting credits for all the albums etc., do we have them or do I need to find them? Oh, unrelated, but do you have the 12s of Burn the Beat and Burn the Bastards? I'd like to get a better idea about those releases and whether they are sufficiently different to be listed independent of each other. --kingboyk 11:08, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

I've got KLF 002T, "Burn The Bastards"/"Burn The Beat". Artist and writers given as The KLF (and S. Stewart for "Bastards"). Other data is "This is a transition record" --Vinoir 13:41, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

As far as I know, they never officially said that KLF only stood for Kopyright Liberation Front. Instead they often told journalists who asked, that KLF stood for other things, with one prominent other one being Keep Looking Forward. I think the intention was to mirror the multiplicity of names that the ELF have in Immuninatus. Drstuey 11:01, 26 April 2006 (UTC)