Talk:The House of Gaunt

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[edit] Merge Gaunts into one Family

It has been suggested that the three articles for marvolo, morfin and merope gaunt should all be merged together. They are relatively short, and largely cover the same ground. A mention might also be made of the famous descendant of the family, Voldemort, though he most certainly deserves his own article. Sandpiper 13:14, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

  • Strong Support for Merger, no need at all for three individual articles on each family member, all the relevant information can quite easily be incorporated into this article. Death Eater Dan 18:43, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

I have also stuck in the information from the Tom Riddle Sr. article. As a character he only appears in exactly the same places as the Gaunts, as part of the same story, so logically he could be on this same page too. The only issue I have is exactly what to call it. House of Gaunt is great for the three pwople called gaunt, but is a little less obvious if someone was trying to find Riddle Sr. Sandpiper 10:29, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

Tom Riddle (c.1903-1943) Joined the family by marriage to Merope, father of Voldemort

How can this be? The same article indicates that Tom Riddle (Lord Voldemort) murdered his father in 1944. Would someone please correct?

correct which bit? the one year discrepancy in dates is due to an ongoing argument about dating of events. Voldemort's name was Tom Riddle. His father's name was also Tom Riddle. The punctuation is wrong, though.

While I am definitely in favour for merging the articles, I think the article should be renamed if it includes Tom Riddle Sr. "House of Gaunt" really doesn't fit. Maybe "Relatives of Lord Voldemort" or something like that. Than, if someone searches for any of the individuals, I think it would be good to directly redirect them from the other articles. In this case the information should be found. Neville Longbottom 18:26, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

Well, I have merged Tom Riddle Senior to this article. I am really not sure about the name. I agree with you that the title House of Gaunt does not explain that it is also about the Riddles, but it has a nicer ring than simply Relatives of Lord Voldemort. Actually using the names Gaunt and Riddle would help anyone trying to find people by that name (it is not immediately obvious that someone called Voldemort might be a Riddle or a Gaunt. Does anyone else have any suggestions? Sandpiper 11:57, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Oedipus Rex

Perhaps the following should be added to the article on Merope Gaunt: In ancient Greek playwright Sophocles' famous tragedy "Oedipus Rex," king Oedipus is under the mistaken impression that his parents were king Polybus and queen Merope of Corinth. Oedipus unknowingly murders his real father, king Laius of Thebes, becomes king of Thebes by saving the city from the Sphinx (by solving the Sphinx's riddle), and then unwittingly marries his real mother, queen Jocasta of Thebes. Later, when Thebes is again struck by disaster, Oedipus learns that the gods are angry at the man who killed king Laius. Oedipus becomes obsessed with finding out who killed Laius; as part of his investigation, Oedipus becomes obsessed with discovering his true parentage. This obsession is Oedipus' tragic flaw, which leads him to ruin when he finds out the whole truth of his parricide and incest.

But I don't see the parallel. Voldemort knew perfectly well who his father was when he killed him. I doubt he plans to marry his ndeceased mother, either. Sandpiper 22:49, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
It does, however, call to mind the Greek Myths in general. And leads one's thoughts to Orestes. The story of a man whose father is murdered by his mother; he then avenges his father by killing his mother, and then tries to escape his death sentence. Voldemort's mother died because his father abandoned them; he then avenged her by killing his father. And since then, he has been trying to escape death. Hermione should be very worried. Michaelsanders 14:44, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Squib?

A question...was Merope Gaunt a squib? Or was Marvolo Gaunt simply calling her that because she did not use her magical powers? Thrashmeister 02:08, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

she could do magic, therefore she was not a squib. It is my impression he was just trying to be nasty to her. Dumbledore did not believe she was a squib, but I can not recall definitively whether we see her do magic in the books or not. Sandpiper 16:13, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
"Merope .... drew her wand shakily from her pocket, pointed at the pot, and mutteed a hastey inaudible spell that caused the pot to shoot across the floor away from her, hit hte opposite wall, and crack in two." This and the fact that she can speak Parseltongue definately shows she is not a squib. --VonWoland 18:33, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Houses of the Gaunts

From the text, it seems unlikely that the last Gaunts had ever attended Hogwarts---from the conditions in which they live, the children seem to have been raised and tutuored entirely by their father. Had they gone to Horwarts, I am sure that they would have been in Slytherin, but as no evidence exists of them ever having set foot there, I think I am justifying in removing theor "House" affiliation. --VonWoland 18:39, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The Riddle Riddle

O.K. maybe I am being too litteral here, but there is no "Tom Riddle Sr." The suffix "Senior" is only attached when father and son have the exact same name. However, Voldemort and his father don't. There may be some dispute if Voldemort's full legal name is "Thomas Marvolo Riddle," or "Tom Marvolo Riddle," --- I tend to favor the latter [read: former?], as the orphanage which registered his birth in the 20's would certainly have normalized the name. But then again, maybe the wizarding community has other laws, so he might have been enrolled at Hogwarts as "Tom." But either way, his father is most certalinly plain "Tom Riddle," because that is what is recorded on his toomb stone. So, he has a different name from his son---like John Adams and John Quincy Adams, or George Herbert Walker Bush and George Walker Bush. This is why I am removing "Tom Riddle Senior" from the article---it is just incorrect. Contextually, he can be reffered to as the "senior Tom Riddle,"---note the lower case "s"---but "senior" is not part of his name. --VonWoland 04:01, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

Dumbledore refers to him as Tom Riddle Senior on p.339 UK hardback (A Sluggish Memory) when referring to the younger Riddle's search for his father's name in the school records. Michaelsanders 21:34, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Descendancy

The article states:

"It is highly unlikely that Lord Voldemort is really the 'last descendant' of Salazar Slytherin: in a thousand years, the family would have spread itself enough to permeate most of the pure-blood families (even when the cousin-marriages of the Gaunts are considered), especially when the existence of illegitimacies is acknowledged."

According to http://www.slate.com/id/2138060, for instance, after a thousand years we would all be descended from Salazar Slytherin.

To take a real world example, almost everyone in the Shetland Islands with the surname of Bruce is descended from Laurence Bruce, a 16th century Lord there (he was an off-shoot of the House of Bruce, and a half-brother of James Stewart, Earl of Orkney, one of James V illegitimate sons). He, as well as Orkney, are the ancestors of most Shetlanders, and anyone descended from Shetlanders (I fall into the latter category). In the Wizarding World, which is effectively as small as the Shetlands, and which has been prey to the same levels of inter-marriage, the spread of Slytherins genes would be similar to that of the Bruces: only much wider, due to the longer space of time. Michaelsanders 15:55, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
And addressing the following: "However, while this is sensible, it may not be true in the Harry Potter version of reality; indeed, if all of Slytherin's descendents can speak Parseltongue (as seems implied here), Parseltongue's rarity might be a sign that Slytherin has few remaining relatives." The very rarity of Parseltongue would seem to suggest that it is a recessive gene. If that is the case, then for Merope and Tom Riddle to have produced a Parseltongue would have to mean that Riddle himself was descended from Slytherin (probably via a Gaunt by-blow). Of course, the problem here is that, since practically everyone in the wizarding world is likely to be descended from Salazar Slytherin, there should be more Parselmouths popping up than seems to be the case. But then, given the fuss made over Harry being a Parselmouth, it is entirely possible that whenever a Parselmouth does spontaneously emerge, they are so scared by the prospect of revealing themselves that they keep it a secret.Michaelsanders 16:13, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Morfin's Death

On what basis is the (approximate) death date of Morfin given? Surely Dumbledore didn't leave it so long before he finally got that memory from him? Michaelsanders 21:36, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Thomas and Mary Riddle

I'm not too happy, that Voldemort's grandparents are named Thomas and Mary on this page. IMO, these names only exist in the movieverse. If there's any information, that the movie gravestone is based on informations by JKR, I'll take it back, but otherwise these names aren't any more canon, than Remus Lupin having a moustache is. There's nothing to contradict it in the books, but there's nothing to support it either. Could we at least add that the names are from the movie? Neville Longbottom 20:41, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Casting

To the editor who is trying to insert Andy Serkis as Morfin Gaunt, and Christian Coulson as Tom Riddle (Sr or Jnr?): I think it unwise to include such identifications. I don't know whether the HBP film is anywhere near casting, or indeed even begun in any form other than script (OotP won't be out for half a year or so, after all). There is no evidence that I can find that Andy Serkis is being considered for Morfin (though plenty of fan ramblings that he should be) - I note that you have not again attempted to add that. As for Christian Coulson: certainly it is hard to see anyone else for the role, given that he played Riddle in the second film (and the elder Riddle looks like his son). But your only basis appears to be a reference to him being 'rumored' on IMDB. I would remind you that IMDB is freely edited, and not subject to the scrupulous checks employed here. Consequently, it is likely that he was added there because it seemed obvious that he would play the part, rather than because there was real reason to believe it. I would suggest that without more solid evidence of his being rumoured to play the part, it is inadvisable to add the reference to Wikipedia, which could serve to mislead readers. I suggest you attempt to find some; until then, the information will be kept off the page. Michaelsanders 00:35, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Riddle and Morfin Death-dates

There is a bit of a problem regarding the Riddle death dates. In the text of HBP, Dumbledore says that Tom went to Little Hangleton 'in the summer of his sixteenth year'. This seems to have been interpreted as being 'when he was sixteen', and thus the summer of 1943. However, his sixteenth year would have been when he had lived fifteen full years, and be into his sixteenth. I.e. he was fifteen, and it was 1942. Is there any further evidence of the death dates, or is there merely that one comment? Also, regarding Morfin's death date: why has he been given such a late date. I thought it seemed clear that Dumbledore knew of those particular crimes by the time Riddle returned in 1957 (he was trailing Riddle after the Smith murder, and it would not have taken him twenty years to visit Morfin when he would have learnt of the Locket robbery in the 40s). Whose idea was the 1970 death date? Michaelsanders 01:09, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Riddle Information

The Riddle family information has now been transferred into a new article, Riddle family. The Gaunt article, therefore, will now be only about the Gaunts. Michaelsanders 14:40, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Senior/Junior

It looks like Modevort's grandfather should be senior, with his father as junior rather than showing his father as senior? user:144.160.5.25

Technically this should be on the Riddle family page. However... TMR's (paternal) grandfather was named Thomas. His father appears to be named Tom, as is TMR himself. Therefore, the grandfather is Thomas; the father is Tom Sr; the boy is Tom Jr, or more fully Tom Marvolo. Michaelsanders 21:49, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
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