Talk:The Hills

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Contents 1 NPOV 2 Controversy 3 Using the term "scripted" 4 Scripted?

[edit] NPOV

Regardless of people's opinions on the show and the standard/quality etc, I feel that there's a particular statement that was edited in a fashion almost tantamount to vandalism:

"Though she intends to attend fashion school while simultaneously working as an intern for Teen Vogue, the drama in her life pales in significance to the real challenges that average people face. This travesty premiered on May 31, 2006. Watch Lauren as she deals with the struggles of living in L.A and her old flame Jason.MTV. Lauren lives in an extremely expensive apartment complex in West Hollywood, thereby insulating her from the horrors of living in the real world."

It should probably be fixed up. skyskraper 14:21, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Controversy

Edited the 'controversy' section for style and grammar, and removed the following passage: "Brian has also been spotted mooching up to the legendary Paris Hilton. Two rumors imply that Jason did not graduate High School and is a cocaine user who stayed at a rehab center in the past and supposably also abused Alex M. from Laguna Beach while they were dating." These rumors have nothing to do with the alleged scripting of the show; if there's been controversy about casting a rumored high school drop-out, etc. we may want to mention that, but as it stands, this passage was unnecessary.

I also pulled the first two comments from the talk page, as they were unrelated to the article and obviously inflammatory.

--Aeonian, 14:19, 07 August 2006

The Aug 6th addition to the 'controversy' section, that includes Jason being a cocaine user and Lauren and Heidi's apartment being at Park La Brea, all seem to be rumors from tvgasm.com. I changed the wording to indicate such, but should they be in here at all? Skew-t 08:32, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Using the term "scripted"

Having worked on a few movies myself and seen different ways of capturing the action on film, I feel duty bound to point out that a show can be completely planned out, and not "scripted". The movie "24 Hour Party People", according to the commentary on the DVD, was completely improvized. The actors were told what had to happen in each scene and they just went ahead with the scene. There was no script, but it certainly was not really happening. The same technique was used for the movie "Kids". The only difference is that the audience is told ahead of time that the whole thing is staged. The producers are careful to specifically state that the show is "not scripted" because psychologically, people take it for granted that "not scripted" means "not pre-planned". There is a difference.75.111.57.38 19:44, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Scripted?

I disagree with calling it scripted based on an editorial column of a writer. In the column it disputes her qualifications for landing the interview when the editor of Teen Vogue has publicly spoken of how she was qualified and it had nothing to with MTV: "Vogue’s west coast editor, Lisa Love, tells the New York Times that the show had nothing to do with Lauren landing the job. Nothing. “If I didn’t like her, she definitely would not have gotten an internship, regardless of what the cameras wanted. She had to pass the test,” she said.

As to unfounded accusations that the show is scripted, Lauren assures us that she couldn’t act if she tried. “People who watch the show assume that we’re acting, so when I would go in to read for a role, they would always be like, ‘Huh, wait a minute.’ I can’t even read a script. I’ve tried and it’s painful to watch,” she told the Times.

That’s not the case with Heidi, who “plans to channel all that energy into acting classes” and “hopes her ‘Hills’ work will lead to a film career,” the Times reports. But Lauren remains committed to a career as a reality TV star. She said, “Scripts are corny and predictable. Real life is always better.” http://www.realityblurred.com/realitytv/archives/the_hills/2006_Jun_12_unscripted

Its genre is "Reality show" so regardless of your opinion of whether or not it is scripted, the article should classify it as it is. So I am changing that title in the beginning.

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It is obvious the show is scripted, however this article mentions nothing about it. For one if this were the brand of reality TV that does actually follow real people in real settings, no one would look that good at all times. Also, a few more people might ask where the camera came from.

This article should mention, in the introduction, that this is a scripted-reality show. The lack thereof could be misleading.

To be frank, there are already enough people living in la-la land, we do not need easily-bending teen minds believing that this is real.

It's obviously scripted, as was Laguna Beach. But are there any sources to back this one up? --Liface 20:26, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Good point, it is scripted but just saying it is will not do for wikipedia.

I suggest we ask one of the more experienced wikipedia-editors (in the field of TV and broadcasting) to point out what makes this show scripted.

A few I can think of:

1. Unlike other reality shows, there is no person-to-camera interaction. That is, its filmed like a normal show, where the actors pretend to be real people for the purpose of entertainment in a traditional sense (such as a sitcom). Reality shows however, generally have scenes where the person the show is focused on shares their feelings or perspectives with the audience in an interview-like manner.

-I have to interject here: ~Just because there isn't a scene with person to camera action, doesn't mean the show is not a reality show. I don't believe there are absolute definitions and rules for a show to be classified "Reality"

2. Lack narration. Reality shows, almost by definition, are narrated and move the audience along with a narrator. No narrator for The Hills.

-I have to dispute this: if you have ever watched an episode you would know that Lauren narrates it

3. Plot. This show has a plot and story. Reality shows, however, never do. There is a game or a prize or something in the end.

~not every show has a game or prize attached to the end-Have you seen "Dr. 90210","The girls Next door", "The real Housewives of Orange county", "Cheyenne" to name a few. These have no prize attached to the end. They only follow these people around.

• The editors take the footage and create a plot by editing it. Its the same for laguna

4. Ever notice how NO ONE EVER LOOKS AT THE CAMERA? If "Heidi" were really working for Bolthouse, why did he hire Heidi with no mention at all of the camera? Also, the camera angles are always set. There are multiple cameras covering a scene. A staple of reality shows, however, is a single camera perspective moving along with the characters.

• They edit the angles, so if they look at one camera they cut to another so it apears as if they're not.

5. Dialogue. In episode 3, Lauren goes to NYC to deliver a dress. There are only a few lines of dialogue between Lauren and the boss. 3000 miles for "thank you?" And "just get back on the plane." Unrealistic.

~Why is that unrealistic? It showed that Lisa was very busy that day. And after Lisa did that Lauren even discussed how ridiculous it was because she acted like a trip across country was a trip down the street. If it wasn't real I doubt she would have reacted that way to being dismissed so quickly

6. The big clincher is just how easy it all comes to Lauren. A dream internship at Teen Vogue, school at a prestigious university, you keep waiting for a diamond to just fall in her lap from the sky. Plus, predictably, despite that Lauren is the equivalent of spoiled (there is no way she affords a $3000 a month apartment on an internship, parents parents parents), somehow she still seems to be the Horatio Alger of the whole show.

In short, Cameras would not be there to capture all this so well unless there was scripting. Plus, makeup is always on even at home. No one, anyone, is wearing makeup straight out of bed like that. Scripted? There is no other way. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.152.33.100 (talk • contribs).

The only problem with that is it violates the policy of no original research. Policy makes me mad. Perhaps there's some news article out there that acknowledges it is scripted? --Liface 05:01, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

• They cast organise with the producers whats going on with their life so they can capture scenes, but if the cameras miss it, they ask them to talk about it during a random coffee scene.

C'mon, the show is so scripted it's not even funny. What's even funnier is that most kids watching this think this is a normal way of life; 18-19 year olds running living in ritzy apartment complexes in and driving $70,000 cars. The degree to which these kids are spoiled and their terrible work ethic is absolutely laughable. These kids think they have problems when they get stuck in traffic in their BMW 330 on the way to an upscale restaurant...hilarious. Clinevol98 03:32, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

C'mon let's pay some respect to wikipedia policy of staying objective, being positive, dealing with facts, not to mention there's nothing verifiable past personal opinions about whether this show is scripted or not. Personal opinions aside, there is nothing to verify that the show is anything but real. Moral and social issues about influencing the minds of kids is not to be dealt with on wikipedia. It's to be dealt with elsewhere. Hell, I know kids their age who have life even sweeter and rosier then the kids on this show. Reality differs for each person. Let's keep wikipedia wikified. skyskraper 15:11, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Staying objective? With about 6 minutes of watching the show, there cannot be a single doubt about it being scripted. Sure, the technical methods, filming methods and directorial attributes give a strong illusion of the show being very much like 'reality' the facts are, there is someone writing this show. Dialogue between the actors is very much laid out and not sparatic as true conversations are. The show does really well at emulating a quasi neuvo riche life for the characters in volved, but too many aspects of the show place it as having to be scripted, there is an outline of events and settings being written. Camera's just don't follow people around in that fashion, perfect camera work that should be on the fly doesn't happen as such, it's not real and people need to understand that. However, the biggest problem holding things back for this article is that MTV probably does not want to let everyone know that it's scripted and none of it's real. It makes too much money and views are way too involved with the belief that it's real to care about basic facts that it's truely a sham of a 'reality' show. If they want to claim it as reality tv, then it should be as such as the reality tv of overly privalaged children who don't face the common reality of people. Ith 01:43, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Stating that based on your assesment of the technical feats of show it must have a script in the article would violate WP:NOR. This isn't a conspiracy of MTV wanting to hide something, it's Wikipedia policy. Please find a source to verify if you think the article is lacking a needed perspective. --skew-t 02:37, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Here is an article that has re-itterated what has previously been said irregardless of NOR. ^[1]. Photographic Proof ^[2] and the link that pointed that photo section out; http://www.tvgasm.com/archives/the_hills/002295.php?page=4 (In comments section) Ith 17:04, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

The first source you cite seems to be an op-ed from a paper's TV Datebook section, which would not constitute a reliable source. Same goes for stuff from blogs like TVgasm. As for the photographs, it does seem to show something that was not as the show presented it to be. It's also something that hasn't been mentioned before as possible evidence of a case of scripted dialogue. Still, if these photos were considered reliable, it would say that the show's timeline and other sources disagree, and that things were left out, not that the show follows a predetermined script. --skew-t 19:42, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

We all know that its scripted, but we need to get it citied.

If I am reading this correctly, then the thing in question here is if the controversy section should remain intact. Fact remains that there is a real controversy related to the production of this show and this aspect should be presented along with everything else. Whether the controversy is true or not should not discount the fact that there is the controversy.

I agree that this show is obviously scripted, anyone who believes otherwise is deluding themselves and has a seriously worrying lack of a grip on reality. I'm surprised MTV can get away with saying it is a true reality show, in the UK you couldn't make such claims.