Talk:The Great Dictator

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You have new messages (last change).
This article is part of WikiProject Films, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to films and film characters on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.
B
This article has been rated as B-Class on the quality scale.
Top
This article has been rated as Top-Importance on the importance scale.
Former FA This article is a former featured article candidate. Please view its sub-page to see why the nomination failed. For older candidates, please check the archive.
The Great Dictator was a good article candidate, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. Once the objections listed below are addressed, the article can be renominated. You may also seek a review of the decision if you feel there was a mistake.

Date of review: 28 November 2006

Contents

[edit] help his people, his country, and his world

help his people, his country, and his world

Is that overstating the case a bit? Granted, I saw the film over Christmas 2001 and should have remembered the plot a bit more, but--I don't remember anything so grandiose? Could someone clarify and/or expand? --KQ 14:49 Aug 2, 2002 (PDT)

As I recall, at the end of the movie, the barber -- now in the position of dictator -- makes a radio address in which he puts a stop to the anschlus (my appologies to German-speakers, I am sure I have misspelled it) AND makes a general appeal to world peace (with I think some pretty sappy cuts to Paulette Goddard listening intently). I always took it as Chaplin himself speaking to the world -- with mixed feelings, because filmicly I find it sappy yet given the specific context of the film (and the content of Chaplin's words) it really is hard to fault him. But given that it was in the context of a World War, I think that although it sounds hyperbolic, it is fair to say Chaplin wanted his barber ultimately to save the world from war. Slrubenstein
See, I had forgotten that part entirely. Thanks. We should probably add that into the article proper. --KQ
Well, it is the most dated part of the film. I wish I knew more about it -- I wonder if he tacked it on because he was afraid people would accuse him of taking Hitler too lightly in his satire; maybe he felt he needed to add something truly serious. I just do not know. Personally I think it is agreat film and the more developed the article, the better -- but aside from hazy memories of the film, I do not know anything about its making or reception and don't feel comfortable adding to the article myself. If you or anyone else knows more about this aspect, I do hope you or they will add it! Slrubenstein

It's been a long time, but I seem to remember that ironically, that speech at the end was part of the evidence cited against Chaplin in an attempt to prove he was a communist. I could be wrong, but I will try and check it this afternoon. Danny

[edit] Banned

The film was banned in 1968 in occupied countries? Which countries? David.Monniaux 08:48, 22 Sep 2003 (UTC)

I believe Czechoslovakia... British film magazines are awash with Chaplinalia this month as there is a big Warner Bros DVD release of his back catalogue so will be able to check when I get home. Pete 11:01, 22 Sep 2003 (UTC)
It was banned in Spain until the death of dictator Francisco Franco in 1975. Sabbut 23:46, 12 Jan 2004 (UTC)
It was banend in Sweden until the end of the war due to the neutrality policy. // Liftarn

[edit] Plot summary

I believe the plot summary is a bit muddled; here and there characters are brought up abruptly in a way that's confusing to the reader. I'd edit it, but I really don't know the film well enough. Dyfsunctional 20:07, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

I re-wrote the synopsis, kind of combining what was there with other sources on the web. The original article contradicted some other versions as far as the order of the scenes, but I smooshed it all together best I could. 161.11.130.249 15:35, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Esperanto film?

Why is this listed under Category:Esperanto films? The Esperanto is limited to a few signs and is not spoken at all in the movie. Heck, there's more German than Esperanto. --dm (talk) 01:51, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

The category is very inclusive: "This category contains films that were written in Esperanto, have spoken or written dialogue in Esperanto prominent or not, or were translated into Esperanto." But even with all that, just having signs in Esperanto arguably doesn't count. I've removed the category. 82.92.119.11 17:13, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Tomania or Tomainia?

Shouldn't it be the latter, as a takeoff on ptomaine? Dpbsmith (talk) 18:52, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Never mind, Ebert spells it "Tomania" and so does Bosley Crowther's original 1940 review in The New York Times. Dpbsmith (talk) 19:01, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
All the text in the movie seems to indicate it's Tomainia, though, just take a closer look at the newspaper closeups. 惑乱 分からん 14:09, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
OK, by pausing the movie on my DVD, I find Hynkel's referred to as the "dictator of Tomania" in the opening credits, but otherwise, "Tomainia" seems to be the most common spelling throughout the movie, when Chaplin's character is going with Schultz in the airplane early in the movie, you could make out the letters "TOMAINIA AIRUM" at the side of the aircraft, and during the amnesia scene, all the newspapers (with names like "Tomainia Mail", "Tomainia Gazette", "Tomainia Post" and "Tomainia review") use "Tomainia" unconditionally. I'd say that makes a fair point in favor of the "in" spelling. 惑乱 分からん 14:44, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Failed GA

For being in Category:Articles with unsourced statements and having images without fair use rationale. --SeizureDog 18:14, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Esperanto usage

The current text says that the use of Esperanto is a subtle political statement. If this is true, it's very subtle. What is that message? Also, it says the words were misspelled on purpose, but there is no source for this claim. 64.195.76.124 05:14, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

I agree. I've marked it as unsourced. I think it should be snipped fairly promptly if nobody can come up with a source and an explanation. Given the spelling discrepancy in the name Tomania/Tomainia it seems to me very unlikely that any spelling errors were deliberate; much more likely that someone grabbed a few Esperanto words as a handy source of foreign-looking words, and didn't care about spelling. Dpbsmith (talk) 12:37, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
P. S. In some random Googling, I've found numerous pages commenting on the signs being "in Esperanto," e.g. imdb's trivia list, but none commenting on the "misspellings" or suggesting a political meaning. Dpbsmith (talk) 12:40, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
P. P. S. A Suite 101 article... suite101 is apparently blocked by Wikipedia's spam filter, to get it by I'm going to change change "suite101" to "suite101x" in the following links, please edit accordingly... http://www.suite101x.com/article.cfm/esperanto/24274, says
Perhaps Esperanto was chosen as an alternative to a national language for the same reason it was selected by the producers of Idiot's Delight, namely, to avoid offending any of the fascist European governments of the 1930's. But there could be another explanation.... Chaplin, like most informed people, was well aware of Hitler's pathological hared of the Jews, and he may well have known of Hitler's animosity to Esperanto as well.
He then quotes a speech which in his opinion expresses, "if not support for the Esperanto language, then an ideological and moral viewpoint which is entirely congruous with that of Dr Zamenhof and of many committed Esperantists."
The article is by a David Poulsen, who is self-identified, http://www.suite101x.com/profile.cfm/David_Poulson, in English and Esperanto, simply as: "I like music, films and Soccer. I play guitar, electric organ and a range of recorders, and I used to play trombone in a brass band. I live in Chiang Mai in the Northern part of Thailand. However, I wasn't born in Thailand, but in England." Dpbsmith (talk) 12:53, 10 December 2006 (UTC)


OK, I found a book source which says "Between world wars, Esperanto fared worse and, sadly, became embroiled in political power moves. Adolph Hitler wrote in Mein Kampf that the spread of Esperanto throughout Europe was Jewish plot to break down national differences so that Jews could assume positions of authority.... After the Nazis' successfull Blitzkrieg of Poland, the Warsaw Gestapo received orders to 'take care' of the Zamenhof family.... Zamenhof's son was shot... his two daughters were sent to the Treblinka death camp." I've edited the paragraph accordingly. Apparently the "subtle political message" was that at the time Esperanto was attacked by the right wing and thought to be a left-wing and/or Jewish movement. Dpbsmith (talk) 13:09, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hitler did not see the movie

According to the The Tramp and the Dictator, the film was not only sent to Hitler, but an eyewitness confirmed he did see it.

This is most probably an example of an urban legend. In fact, there is no evidence that Hitler saw the movie. All that is known for sure is that the German film studio of that time, the UFA, obtained a copy of the movie in neutral Portugal during World War II. Everything else is just speculation. In addition, Albert Speer clearly denied that Hitler watched the movie in an interview with American journalists .--84.56.212.209 12:13, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Speer hat auch eine Frage beantwortet, über die schon 1945 viel spekuliert worden war. In den USA war das Gerücht aufgekommen, eine Kopie des Filmes sei von Agenten des Dritten Reiches angekauft worden. Hitler habe sich "The Great Dictator" angesehen und anschließend vor Wut in den Teppich gebissen. Speer hat mit diesem Mythos aufgeräumt. Zwar habe sich die UFA im neutralen Portugal eine Kopie besorgt, aber die sei Hitler nie vorgeführt worden.[source (German only)]
Translation:
Speer also answered a question, about which there was a lot of speculation since 1945. In the US, the rumour came up that a copy of the film was bought by agents of the Third Reich. Hitler was said to have watched "the great dictator" and afterwards bit into a carpet outrageously. Speer straightened that myth: The UFA bought a copy in neutral Portugal, but it was never shown to Hitler.--84.56.212.209 12:26, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

PS: Who exactly is that eyewitness that is mentioned in the documentary? I seriously doubt that there are any eyewitnesses that can state that Hitler saw the movie. It sounds more like "I think it's true but I don't have any sources".--84.56.212.209 13:03, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Musical parody?

The scene where he dances with a large, inflatable globe to the tune of a theme from Wagner's Lohengrin was claimed to also be a parody of the overstated and heavy Wagner music Hitler liked (Chaplin liked simpler music, like a single chello). Should this go into the article? // Liftarn

[edit] Germany

According to some book that Tomania is really Germany Adenoid Hynkel is Adolf Hitler and Hynkel Party is the Nazi Party I didn't edit the article Mrsanitazier 8:51 PM ET March 6,2007

[edit] In Pop culture

The "balloon globe ballet" is parodied a few times in pop culture: -G.W. Bush - The Great Dictator. -In one episode of Pinky and the Brain. Maybe find more and add a section. --Ollj 11:55, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org../../../t/h/e/Talk%7EThe_Great_Dictator_de76.html"