Talk:The Farewell Sermon

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

	This article is part of the WikiProject Islam, an attempt to build a comprehensive guide to Islam on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit this article, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion. If you are new to editing Wikipedia visit the welcome page so as to become familiar with the guidelines.
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the quality scale.
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the importance scale.
Article Grading: The article has not been rated for quality and/or importance yet. Please rate the article and then leave comments here to explain the ratings and/or to identify the strengths and weaknesses of the article.

Can anyone plese indlude a link to a site which has the last sermon in arabic?

1 "Final" prophet
2 Citation of translation
3 Merge
4 Text

[edit] "Final" prophet

This seems to be the subject of a dispute. I put "final" back in, in accordance with the page Prophets of Islam which the word immediately after "final" links to, and also in accordance with the sermon itself (no prophet or apostle will come after me). If there is still disagreement, why not discuss it here or on that page rather than edit warring? -Dan 03:05, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

The claim that he was the final prophet of Islam is disputed by some Muslims and among others, the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community. The NPOV solution for Wikipedia I believe is not choose a side in this discussion. -- Karl Meier 09:38, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

Ahmadiyyas believe that the second coming of Jesus came in the form of Hazrat Muhammad, the Mahdi. Further, Ahmadi's are not Muslim, in much the same way that Christians are not Jewish - Though they share most of the same Prophets, there are a different religion. --Irishpunktom\^talk 10:16, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

Fact is that they don't believe that Mohammad was the last prophet. They only believe that he was the last "law-bearing prophet". Another fact is that they call themselves Muslims, and that does, from a neutral point of view make them as much Muslims as any other sect that call itself islamic. -- Karl Meier 20:22, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

If you want to add a section on the Amahdis, go ahead, but stop screwing around with perfectly legitamate text! --Irishpunktom\^talk 09:01, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

No, what I want is the text to be neutral. I don't want it to advance any POV above any other POV (Sunni, Shi'a, Amahdis or whatever). Unless you make some serious suggestion to how NPOV should be archieved on this article, I'll have to revert your POV editing again. -- Karl Meier 15:53, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Well Karl, if you must, though I wish you wouldn't do that sort of thing. I'm not up on Ahmadiyya, or the general practice around this place on whether they or other sects that call themselves islamic are in fact qualified as such or not, etc, etc. As I see it, the sermon -- which after all is the subject of this article -- does explicitly claim finality, at least as it stands now. Maybe you could expand on Ahmadiyya dissention? Would it be possible to cite an alternate interpretation, or an alternate text, or that they reject the sermon altogether as unreliable, or I don't know what? How useful is it to edit war over "final" in the intro, while leaving "no prophet or apostle will come after me" unchallenged? -Dan 14:40, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

On second thought, I don't think we need any of the "final" or "prophet" POV-stuff. I don't think there is any doubt which Muhammad the article is talking about, and I don't think there is any need to clarify it, so let's just stick to the most neutral possible way, and that is simply to say: "Muhammad". -- Karl Meier 20:10, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Of cource we need to disambid the name in the first mentioning. I added "traditional" to exlcude the Bahai and such.--Striver 07:19, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Really? What other Muhammad do you think the readers might confuse the Muhammad we are talking about with? As I see it, in this article it's obvious, and there is no need to clarify it when mentioning him here. -- Karl Meier 05:47, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Considering Muhammad is the most comon name in the world, i would argue that there is a need to disambig. --Striver 20:33, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Are we still on about this? I'm afraid I'm still not seeing it. How about "whom Muslims believe to be the final prophet"? (basically what the lead section of the Muhammad article has -- admittedly there is controversy over that article, but not, as far as I can see, over this issue). Really, to me it seems like "of Islam" captures it, so it's unnecessary extra words, but honestly, either way, not a big deal, let's get over this. 192.75.48.150 18:49, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Citation of translation

Incidentally, the translation of the text as it stands could also probably use some citation. In fact, for all three slightly different versions. -Dan 15:09, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Merge

No need to have duplicates. --Striver 12:03, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

I agree, merge. Shijaz 17:49, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, merge where? We have this article (The Farewell Sermon), The Farewell Pilgrimage, and Hujjat Alwada'e. The tags don't make it clear what's to go where. 192.75.48.150 13:22, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Hujjat Alwada'e needs to be redirected to here.--Striver 21:56, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

My arabic isn't that great, but isn't that really the farewell pilgrimage? Or are we merging those too? 70.30.114.134 03:14, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Oh, ok. Then it needs to be redirected to farewell pilgrimage... actualy, it seems like Hujjat Alwada'e needs to be merged into both farewell pilgrimage & sermon. --Striver 20:31, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

I have merged it into the pilgrimage. There didn't seem to be any new information about the farewell sermon (as opposed to Ghadir Khumm). 70.30.114.134 19:46, 23 June 2006 (UTC)