Talk:The Dillinger Escape Plan

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Contents 1 DEP as MCR 2 OMG THEYRE SO COMPLICATED 3 Notability concerns 4 Tech metal and mathcore... 5 Whale Hunter?

[edit] DEP as MCR

In this interview with fans, someone mentioned they'd heard about a set Dillinger did where they dressed up as the boys from My Chemical Romance, and asked for pictures of it. Greg said he didn't know if any existed, but at some point in time, Dillinger were on Fuse's "Steven's Rock Show", or whatever it's called, doing an interview, and for the last portion of it they donned their MCR costumes. It's very possible someone could've screencapped it. Does any one have any screens? --Jeff 20:01, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] OMG THEYRE SO COMPLICATED

Why is the 'time signatures picked with secret magic code dice' stuff in the intro? They have a drummer who went to school who writes some of the riffs. Theres no divining or Aztec rites. They're not that complicated. Gatesofawesome!

They are quite the overrated band. Just because they are all "technical" and what not doesn't mean they are good. Markendust

That's because they are the tipical mallcore band, most of the times mislabelled as "metalcore" --Dexter prog 15:09, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Mastodon, Meshuggah, and Neurosis prevail over them in every shape and form. Those bands make complex music that sounds good, not this Dillinger garbage. I hate how people call the Dicklickenger metal when they are the furthest thing. Listen to Testament and see if Dillinger is any way close to them. Markendust

[edit] Notability concerns

Is this band genuinely "encyclopedic"? What have they done that meets WP:MUSIC? --Elonka 22:42, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Huh? They have over a dozen albums available on Amazon, Miss Machine shows 107 customer reviews as well as one from Kerrang!, etc., etc. You're way off on this one. —Wknight94 (talk) 02:51, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

I have placed a {{fact}} tag on the article requesting a more detailed citation. For example, the article says, "They have been dubbed by NME as "The World's Most Dangerous Band" and Kerrang! as "The Best Live Band on the Planet." Okay, but that's not exactly referenced. When did Kerrang say such a thing? Which issues, which articles, what date, what context? Was this an actual review, or a letter to the editor, or a comparison of "the best live bands on the planet"? There needs to be enough information here for another editor to confirm the claim. --Elonka 02:14, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

I can't find an exact issue number and I'm not a big fan of Kerrang! but a Google search makes it pretty apparent that it's true. Kerrang! called them that so it's not a letter to the editor. If you'd like the exact issue number, that's fair enough - but this isn't some garage band. Notability is a given and is very easy to confirm. Even I used to have one of their CDs! From the bio section of their website, they've been on the Warped Tour and shared a stage with Slayer and Pantera. An AFD for this would be a speedy keep, no doubt. —Wknight94 (talk) 02:36, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

I have very little interest in the claims that they make on their own website, and am more interested in reliable third-party sources. A claim like "Best Live Band on the Planet" is substantial, and requires a source so that such a claim can be verified. If we can't verify it, then the claim should be removed until a source becomes available. --Elonka 03:01, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

So basically you're saying the dozen or so random places on the Internet that stated the fact verbatim are all lying? All someone needs to do is find the magazine issue. When the claim is so clearly true but you don't know exactly where the source is, you put a {{fact}} tag on it, you don't remove it. Only when there is zero independent verification and it sounds made up do you remove it. Here we have an MTV News write up about Dillinger touring with Fear Factory and Dream Theater, here we've got a list of tour dates with AFI... Frankly, I'm not sure where you're going with this. WP:AGF. —Wknight94 (talk) 03:44, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Just because a band's own claim is repeated on a website, does not make the claim true. I routinely see various fansites picking up language from a press release, without bothering to verify it. See WP:V and WP:RS, especially "Exceptional claims require exceptional sources". --Elonka 04:09, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

So verify it. Dozens of people independently lying about something so easily verifiable would be an astronomical coincidence. If you want to tighten up references and reliable sources, why don't you take a stab at fixing the articles that use your own web site as a reference. You could start with Elonka Dunin. —Wknight94 (talk) 04:32, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Tech metal and mathcore...

In Belgium, the band is to be said as an arhythmical hardcore band or converge...Stephan KŒNIG 10:49, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

This is not hardcore --Dexter prog 15:10, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Course it is not hardcore. It is crap. This band is a piss poor excuse for one.

[edit] Whale Hunter?

The article states that this band is "Managed by longtime friend and whale hunter Tom Apostolopoulos ". Can anyone provide a primary source for this? All Google was turning up for me was Wikipedia and some blogs. I'm wondering if someone inserted "whale hunter" here is as subtle form of vandalism. RxVUx6EB 03:59, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

I dug a little here. That was added back in January 2006 with this edit by an account that made less than 50 edits - all related to The DEP - and then disappeared. That same user also contributed to Tom Apostolopoulos which has been deleted four times, the last by Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Tom Apostolopoulos. That AFD didn't say anything about the guy himself being a hoax but it did end with delete. It mentioned that he's part of some site called Buddyhead.com which I think is the real reason for that article's existence. The original version of the Tom Apostolopoulos article starts with an image of a real Grizzly Bear and the caption, "Shot of Apostolopoulos ambushing an unauthorized photographer at a Dillinger Escape Plan show. Shot taken by said photographer shortly before his death". It also says,

A renowned whale hunter, Apostolopoulos once speared a 79 foot sperm whale 134 miles off the coast of Maine. His whale hunting skills have extended into the kitchen of his restaurant, where a number of whale-related dishes are featured on the menu (when in season).

Coiner of the phrase "Nah Brah" and more recently "Going Off", which may have been pilfered from Aaron North, aka "The Corpse".

Once rumored to be a member of some sort of Greek mafia along with original Dillinger singer Dimitri Minakakis, he has little regard for any life other than himself and those he is friends with.

From this link, it appears that the band thanked Apostolopoulos in the liner notes of The Dillinger Escape Plan (EP) - I don't have that one but I'm sure someone can confirm that. This site also mentions a car accident that Apostolopoulos and Weinman were in. In short, it looks like Apostolopoulos does exist and is affiliated with The DEP but that he probably doesn't need a mention here. And the whale hunter stuff is almost certainly nonsense. —Wknight94 (talk) 14:20, 25 December 2006 (UTC)