Talk:The Day After

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Date of review: October 12, 2006
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Contents

[edit] So how biased was the film?

Towards the East I mean.

-G

[edit] Soviets in the Fulda Gap

The line about Soviet troops crossing the Fulda Gap and where Wiesbaden may have been destroyed by a nuclear explosion did indeed occur in the film. It comes from two specific lines of dialouge.

At one point, a number of students at the University of Kansas are in line and Bruce is among them. Bruce is drawn over to a television set, where the announcer says "...three pronged attack, spearheaded by rapid Soviet tank and artilley advances into the Fulda Gap. Having already captured NATO advance positions along the West German border, the looming question is: how far will the Warsaw Pact forces go? Will the Russians advance straight for the Rhine and defy NATO's declared policy of defense by all means, including the use of tactical nuclear weapons?"

Shortly afterward, there is a scene where Dr. Oakes is stuck in his car in slow-moving traffic on the Interstate. On the radio, the announcer says "...Warsaw Pact forces are close to annoucing a cease-fire along the German border. There are still no eyewitness accounts to substantiate the rumor that low kiloton-range nuclear weapons were detonated this morning during the conflct, resulted in the reported destruction of Wiesbaden, and the outskirts of Frankfurt" and then the Emergency Broadcast System beep cuts in. (—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 65.164.132.42 (talk • contribs) 18:13, 6 November 2004 (UTC) Please sign your comments by adding four tildes ~~~~ to the end of the comment.)

The preceding was added by me, prior to my registering this user name. --Dr. Floyd 20:28, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sedalia, Whiteman AFB

This movie has a small scale cult status in my hometown because of the line "Mister, there ain't no more Sedalia." I'm trying to remember if Whiteman AFB got hit the the nuclear exchange. If so, maybe link here from the Sedalia, Missouri and Whiteman Air Force Base articles? crazyeddie 10:13, 7 Jan 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Use of government stock footage?

Although the iconic mushroom cloud may have been created by special effects, my understanding was that a lot of scenes of houses getting destroyed WERE government stock footage. Can anyone confirm/deny? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.165.35.133 (talk • contribs) 6-SEP-2005 (UTC)

Yes, some of it was U.S. government stock footage, including a scene of trees being brushed back by the nuclear explosion. Those trees were, I think, planted in concrete as an experiment at the time of a nuclear test. There's also one scene of a building shattering that was lifted from an obscure 1979 disaster movie, "Meteor," starring Sean Connery and Natalie Wood. 205.188.116.135 01:53, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Warrensburg, Missouri?

Now here's a question. If one of the bombs destroyed Whiteman Air Force Base, would Warrensburg, Missouri have been wiped out? (—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Mike14 (talk • contribs) 6 April 2006 (UTC) Please sign your comments by adding four tildes ~~~~ to the end of the comment.)

Almost certainly. Mapquest shows downtown Warrensburg to be only about 11 miles from the base. A larger weapon in the 25-100 megaton range would level everything within a blast radus that Warrensburg would definitely fall in. Even blasts from smaller yield weapons would still devastate the town. Warrensburg would be toast. Kevyn 04:16, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
100 Megaton nuclear weapons do not exist. The largest was the Tsar Bomba at 50 megatons. I don't even think the Russians deployed 25 megatons. The Tsar Bomba was mainly used as a scare tactic and propoganda. If a nuclear bomb were to be detonated at Whiteman AFB, it would not hit Warrensburg. More than likely such a strike would be a ground burst in an attempt to completely destroy the complex (I don't know how hardened it is against nuclear strikes). An airburst would cover more area, but not have the damage of the direct area right around a ground burst. So chances are you'd survive, just don't be near any windows. PsychicKid1 03:02, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Belton mentioned?

Was Belton, MO ever mentioned in the movie?--24.208.123.129 01:15, 22 July 2006 (UTC)Geobeedude

[edit] Social Impact?

Is there more information on the extent of the social impact of the movie? For example, I was 14 and living in a peaceful small town near Toronto, Ontario, in Canada when I watched it. I was sick and nauseous for days. Both my mother and I had nightmares for months after watching it, and we jumped at the sound of overhead passenger jets. I'm still jittery if not slightly nauseous at the thought of nuclear war. I even associate some popular radio songs at the time with the movie, and can't listen to them. Surely there are many more people affected to this extent.205.250.105.83 21:06, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

There certainly were social impacts of the movie. I was a teenager in Southern California when this aired, and was very disturbed by the movie - which haunted me for years. (For instance, I never expected to live to see adulthood). If any research has been done into the social impacts of this film, I'd very much like to see them included here. Kevyn 22:19, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
I was about 12 when this was shown in New Zealand (1985/6?) at theatres. There was quite a big attempt by certain politicians and the media to whip up a scare - it was actually suggested that sort-of field hospitals for the traumatised film-goers be set up outside the theatres! I went to see it with my mother, and I don't recall being particularly upset by it, in the way I had certainly been by "Threads" a couple of years earlier. Perhaps if someone could look up some newspaper articles from the time that could be helpful. I'd do it here but I'm recovering from surgery at the moment. I think a social impact section could prove very interesting though.Topatientlyexplain 09:41, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Yeah. I now have an obsession with nukes. It's nothing compared to Threads, though. UPDATE: I was at a school just north of the river in the most clear, beautiful view of KC i had ever seen.The skyline was in clear view (I think they filmed somewhere near here). I suddenly had a horrible vision similar to the scene in TDA. Geobeedude 02:58, 13 November 2006 (UTC)Geobeedude

[edit] Plot

I've drastically expanded the Plot section to give more details about the film's plot as it aired, as what was previously entered was only partially accurate, and not all that informative. Spoiler tags were, of course, left in place. One fact that I was unable to get info on were the children of the Hendrys. Their names weren't listed in IMDB, and weren't mentioned in the film. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.90.151.114 (talk • contribs) 17:46, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Critique

Well-written article. However, it lacks any sort of in-line citations, as wanted by wikipedia. Also, the comments about the "woman in the bathtub" scene in the Trivia section are hard to follow, as there is no other clear reference to the scene in question. Please detail the facts of the scene either in the Trivia section itself or in the main body of the article for clarification. Badbilltucker 15:34, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Dab header

Is the dab header necessary? It's a bit curiously worded and I was wondering if it's needed at all - do you ever get links pointing here which are meant for the other film? Any signs that readers are getting navigationally confused? If no, it's not necessary. If yes, well, c'est la vie :) - but perhaps reword it? --kingboyk 16:13, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Reference removal

These references were removed because after trying to find them in the archive and not finding one (I picked 7 at random), and because it was a dump of references that weren't used to write the article. Lincher 13:22, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] GA failed

1. Well written? Fail
2. Factually accurate? Fail
3. Broad in coverage? Fail
4. Neutral point of view? Fail
5. Article stability? Pass
6. Images? Fail


Additional comments :

  • Image:Dayafterfilm.jpg, Image:Dayafter1.jpg don't state their fair use rationale.
  • The article misses inline citations/references especially in Events leading to war.
  • Trivia section is has non-notable trivia that should be removed and everything else should be replaced in the text.
  • The Plot section shouldn't have bullet point lists in it.
  • The lead section doesn't represent the length of the article (See WP:LEAD).

This article needs a lot of work to add sourcing to the material present and it also needs re-writing in some parts. As it stands, it looks like a weak B-class article. Good luck on the bettering of the article and if you have any questions just pop on my talk page. Lincher 13:26, 12 October 2006 (UTC) Lincher 13:26, 12 October 2006 (UTC)


Why dont you change it if you think its so bad the thing lists all it could about the documentary if u want to improve it then change the documntary

[edit] Badly-Needed Reversions To The "Plot" Section

There are several significant (in my opinion) inaccuracies in the "Plot" section and I've been trying to change them for a couple of days now, but every time, someone else comes in and reverts them right back. I don't get it . . . it makes me wonder if the people here have ever actually watched the film. So, anyway, let me just list the different inaccuracies:

  • It says the Dahlbergs live "outside of Lawrence, KS." Wrong. Actually, the caption on the bottom of the screen in the film reveals that the Dahlbergs live outside Harrisonville, MO, which is far, far away from Lawrence (it's south of Kansas City). There actually weren't many missile silos around Lawrence in the 1980's, most of the Kansas ones were further out west, such as in Hutchinson and Wichita. Most of the silos which were nuke targets in this movie were in Missouri, around Whiteman AFB, Harrisonville, etc.
  • The Hendrys "live at an unspecified location". Also inaccurate. The film's caption confirms that the Hendrys live in the fictional town of "Sweetsage, MO" (20 miles southeast of Kansas City, according to the movie).
  • Similarly, Billy McCoy is said to work one of the missile silos "around Lawrence" --- what the author should have said is "around fictional Sweetsage".
  • 'Tis said that Dr. Oakes is "enroute to Kansas City from Lawrence," which is partly inaccurate. I think it should be explained, even in just a few words, that Oakes was on the way down I-70 to Lawrence to teach a class at KU when the EBS warning came on and, after a futile attept at contacting his wife from the phone booth, heads down I-70 for Kansas City in an attempt to rescue his family. He was also not "unaware of the attack warning" --- he's been listening to the news on the radio for hours and knows what might happen, and certainly is "aware" when the EBS warning comes on.
  • Steven Klein was not in Lawrence when he ducked into the store just as the blast waves hit his locations. If Steven left the KU campus in Lawrence, hitched a ride way out into the country, and started walking around the time the bombs hit, how could he then wind up all the way over in Lawrence again? These kinds of errors are frustrating. Because Steven later says to the Dahlbergs "I was near Harrisonville when it started", and also because on a research trip where I found ABC production records for the film it was revealed that they shot this scene in a Mexican restaurant in downtown Harrisonville, I think it's pretty safe to say that Steven Klein was in Harrisonville in this scene, not in Lawrence. Grrrrr.
  • Two smaller may-be inaccuracies. The basketball court where Steven later finds Denise among the dying is not really a "high school gym", but the KU basketball venue Allen Fieldhouse. Whether or not the filmmakers intended this setting to actually be the fieldhouse in the story, or if it was indeed a gym in the story, I don't know, but I don't think a high school gym would be this big or have as many seats. Also, I doubt that at the end of the story Oakes really finds his house. I believe that he is simply hallucinating or imagining that he is locating the area of his house (you know, with all the radiation and whatnot). I seriously doubt that a guy, especially one weakened and maddnened by radiation sickness, could locate where his house once stood when everything for miles around is flattened and in ruins---total rubble---especially considering that Kansas City is a pretty big place.

That's it, gentlemen and ladies. Please do something about it, or permit me to do it myself, without my changes being reverted within hours like they have been over the past couple of days. --- Mike14

Again, one reason you've probably been reverted is because of the profile of your edits. I can't speak for the other editors who reverted, but from my perspective there were three details that made me wary. First, you made significant changes to fairly stable material in a pop-culture article, particularily details that are thought to be "common knowledge". (For example, although I might not have actually watched "The Day After" for years, I've seen many references to Lawrence, Kansas as the setting. Your edits changed it away from that, which looks suspicious.) Secondly, your changes appeared to be your first edits on this page, and a check of your edit history showed that you're not a "regular" contributor as of late. (Nothing wrong with this, of course, but you had one edit a few weeks back, and then it goes back two months.) Finally, and perhaps most significantly, there were no no edit summaries in the article history, nor were there any comments on the talk page. Don't take it personally, please - there's just so much vandalism on Wikipedia that many editors (myself included) tend to err on the side of caution.
The above, however, clearly outlines your rationale for making changes, and makes it easier for other editors to assess them. (This level of detail certainly isn't mandatory, or even necessary for many edits. However, a good, concise edit summary when you save your work can often avoid a lot of problems with reverts and changes.) Hope this helps - and, all this aside, good catch on the errant information. It has been a long, long, long time since I've seen the film, so I'd be hard pressed to note such details, and I'm glad you did. It's particularly important since the article is probably getting more hits due to the Jericho series and the Kansas parallels. Thanks. --Ckatzchatspy 01:48, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
Thanks. Actually, during a period from about last fall to the spring of this year, I was a very regular contributor to the "Day After" page and I think myself and a few others were the first ones to consider seriously expanding the article. For instance, I wrote most of the "Production" section based on research I'd done on the film's shooting, at the U. of Iowa (where director Nicholas Meyer has his personal and career papers archived). I once had a list of twenty-some newspaper and magazine articles that I consulted from the '80s under the "References" section, but they were deleted after several months because, according to the guy, they were a bunch of "dumped references". Ha. Anyway, thanks. I haven't been on the Day After page here in a while, and I just couldn't understand what was happening because all the information I was providing was correct. --Mike 14, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
Be advised that one of the plot edits you made was also incorrect. If you look at the scene closely where the elder survivor gives Dr. Oakes one of his supplies, it's not bread but an orange. This is how it is mentioned in the script, which I'd love to cite online, but is only available in my hands at the moment. And no, I'm not going to scan it in and put it online so you can link to it, because that's illegal. 66.90.151.114 09:17, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
I never said that it was a "piece of bread" that the guy handed Oakes. I doubt that it matters much anyway. I, too, have read the script. I have several photocopies of it at my home. Remember that while filming on location, the director & crew might make a few changes from the script as far as props go. On the call sheet from the day that scene was filmed (on September 10, 1982), on the "Props" section it says---"Pear", instead of "Orange". User:Mike14 09:19, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Errors and Goofs Section

Having just bought this film on DVD I am thinking of starting an 'Errors and Goofs' section, perhaps starting with the following - could people tell me if I am right on this one:

When the EMP strikes all the cars die - no doubt because the electrics cut out and the spark plug circuits no longer work. But we are then shown people trying to start their cars again... to the sound of the electric starter motors! Would one circuit go and not the other?

However, the main point here is this - would a diesel engine (such as the one presumably on the vehicle being driven by McCoy), once running, be affected by an EMP at all? Even if the starter motor circuits were ruined, surely once going they would be EMP-immune, as Diesel engines have no spark plugs? No doubt in these days of embedded microprocessors with 200 times the power of a Commodore 64, something could go awry, but surely not in the 80s?

As for other goofs, the main one I can think of is when the first bombs are going off, as the second mushroom cloud appears the first one suddenly shrinks in size slightly. Milvinder 15:37, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Just noticed another. In the scene where Mr. Dahlberg is carrying his son inside after the explosion, the super-gale force winds in the foreground blow in the opposite direction to the flag on the roof of the house in the background. Milvinder 21:07, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
I read through some quotes from the film and one of them was that an EMP would not destroy everything electrical, some sources would still work —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Ricksen (talk • contribs) 18:36, 16 December 2006 (UTC).

Errors & Goofs update: checked with a mate of mine re: EMP and Diesels. Apparently a "really old shitty one" might keep going once the electrics were fried, but modern ones have computers controlling everything. So the jury's out on that one, we'll let them off!

However, here's a really major goof - when the first blast goes off (after the EMP one) you hear the sound of the blast at the same time as you see the light from it, despite the fact that Dr. Oakes is a long way from the bomb. This really is bollocks, as sound travels much slower the flash would appear and there would be silence for several seconds. This effect is seen in 'By Dawn's Early Light', you see the light at a window, several seconds of silence, then the window gets blown in. In fact when I was at uni somebody drove a car onto the grass outside my window when I was asleep, I woke up and then they turned the headlights on full beam, feet from my window. For a few seconds I really did think a nuke must have gone off.

Will get round to doing the Errors and Goofs section some time soon! Milvinder 20:50, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Personal account of viewing the film.

My father took me to see this film at The Agora Cinema, La Trobe University, Melbourne, Australia in early 1984. I remember the impact it had on the entire audience. As we left the theatre into an Australian summer night, I could not help look into the air to reassure myself the missles were not about to land. As I looked back down to head hight, I noticed the majority of the audience glance upward. Only a few months before, I had seen an article on the nightly current affairs programme in Brisbane, Australia, where they had drawn lines illustrating the effect of a nuclear strike on the Metropolitan area. A year before that there had been articles in The Age in Melbourne, Australia, discussing that a war was just around the corner.

In these years I was just entering my teens. I now try and explain the effect of this threat to my students some twenty years later and they find it very hard to understand. Twenty two years later I remember every scene of this film, and the effect it had on my life. Following this film, and during my teenage years and into my twenties, I became an active anti-nuclear protester when I had the chance. The best time I can remember in my formative years was watching The Eastern Block countries open to The West. I remember The Berlin Wall falling and visited Berlin as soon as I could and collected a piece of the wall. Even today, I believe there is no excuse for any country to possess Nuclear weapons.

Maree Davidson, Essex, England, UK (ex-Australia). —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.34.177.183 (talk • contribs).

[edit] Malyctenar's recent edit

I've restored Malyctenar's recent edit, which was reverted by Darthflyer without any edit summary or talk page discussion. Please note that this wasn't done to take sides in the matter, or to suggest support for one version over the other. However, Malyctenar's edits seemed reasonable, involved, and beneficial (based on a quick scan) so they should not have been reverted outright, especially without some form of explanation. Darthflyer, if you have concerns about the changes, you might wish to discuss them with Malyctenar first so that we can avoid a dispute. --Ckatzchatspy 06:17, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The War Game

I know The War Game is listed at the bottom of the article but this show has so many parallels and similarities that perhaps someone with a real stake in this article may wish to consider researching to see if Meyer was influenced in any way by that?AlanD 20:20, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Reagan's push for a bibilical nuclear armagedon

The Day After was not created in a vaccum.

What would be interesting in this article would be including some information about how the Reagan administration official line in the 1980's was that the US could win a nuclear war, which included placing nuclear weapons in Germany, etc.

The movie "The Day After" was not only backlash of this policy. There were world wide protests of the US foreign policy. Several protestors were arrested at nuclear facilities, and I remember several magazines talking about what would really happen in a nuclear war (I remember Newsweek had an excellent article with its signature colorful graphs, showing the fallout and deaths in Moscow if a nuclear bomb were to be blasted there).

I believe (but need to do some research) that this movie was part of the backlash of this insane foreign policy.

Reagans cold war stance was part of Plan B, the group of cold war hawks who helped destroy Kissinger's Détente and helped make the declining cold war hot again.

Is there any articles on wikipedia about Reagan's evolving nuclear war views? Travb (talk) 01:28, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Off-topic list moved to independent article

The See Also section of this article was becoming a list of other works only tengentially related to this one. It was moved to List of nuclear holocaust fiction along similar, redundant, frequently overlapping lists from Threads and Jericho (TV series). See Talk:List of nuclear holocaust fiction. MrZaiustalk 05:14, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

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