Talk:The Count of Monte Cristo

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This article is a current candidate for the Article Creation and Improvement Drive. Please see the project page to find this article's entry to support or comment on the nomination.

	This article is part of WikiProject Novels, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to narrative novels, novellas, novelettes and short stories on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit one of the articles mentioned below, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and contribute to the General Project Discussion to talk over new ideas and suggestions.
B	This article has been rated as B-Class on the quality scale.
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the importance scale.
Article Grading: The article has been rated for quality and/or importance but has no comments yet. If appropriate, please review the article and then leave comments here to explain the ratings and/or to identify the strengths and weaknesses of the article.
Tasks you can do: Novels WikiProject • (Novels, Novellas, Novelettes & Short stories) Announcements and open tasks (watch • edit • discuss) → Please help with tagging articles! Critique (Featured Article): A_Series_of_Unfortunate_Events - "10 achieved" Wikipedia wide peer reviews: no reviews currently Novels WikiProject Peer reviews : Master and Commander Improve: The Body in the Library • Furies of Calderon • Wolf Brother • The Monk • The English Patient • Bones of the Moon • More... Create: Dover Beach • Black Cocktail • Blackthorn Winter • London, 1850 • More... Novel without Infobox (auto list): many novel articles do not have an infobox - and need one (auto generated list) - may need expansion of article too Our Collaboration Department is continuing with one more title Adam Bede for the current month. Get collaborating on the article and also look at nominating other titles to be considered. The new article Fictional locations now exists - as a companion article to Fictional characters - but it is still a stub and could do with plenty more imput to improve it. Another new article A Taste for Death (P.D. James novel)‎ now exists - but it is also still a stub and could do with plenty more imput to improve it. A new Infobox exists to support the growing number of "Short Story" articles that are tagged as part of the project - take a look at it and comment on it's talk page. I would suggest we use it for "Short Stories and "Novelettes" and leave the main "Book infobox" for "Novels" and "Novellas". New hitlists added to the main worklist. List of literary works with eponymous heroes List of literary works with eponymous heroines Pages that only exist as redirects: Men at Arms changes

Contents 1 Possible Expansion? 2 (Hypotetical) Tragic finale 3 A question of accents 4 Nothing about The Hand of the Dead ? 5 the count of monte cristo 6 character descriptions, spoilers, plot summary questions 7 More Characters? 8 Translations 9 Sequels 10 Subplots 11 Revert? 12 ship title question: Pharaon or Pharoah? 13 which language should be used for character names? 14 Question about Villefort 15 Persona 16 Albert Edmund's Son?

[edit] Possible Expansion?

Does anybody have the time, and background info, to add a section to this article regarding influences that effected the writing of the book, like the Hundred Days, Royalists, Bourbons, etc. I have the background, just not the time. If not, I'll get to it eventually.Signor Pastrini 05:00, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Greatest Book Ever!!!!!

[edit] (Hypotetical) Tragic finale

Suppose the Count had let Valentine die?Suppose a distraught Maximillien had commited suicide? Suppose Albert and the Count had gone on with their duel and killed each other?

I believe the Count didn't let Valentine die. (Spoiler) Valentine was alive in the end.

who have seen the movie???

• It would be a very sad book. Call me whatever, but I still feel pretty sorry for Villefort. He got the worst of the Count's wrath.--Sol Kiske 20:52, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

• The greatest attribute of this novel is that the reader can feel for each and every one of the characters. I have read the novel nearly a dozen times, in both French and English, and I see the story a different way each time. Arguably the greatest novel ever written. Aericanwizard 02:30, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] A question of accents

I've only read the book in French, but I believe the protagonist's name is spelled Dantès (accent grave), not Dantés.

--anon. 20 July 2004

Correct--The Count of Monte Cristo ^Parley 08:24, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Nothing about The Hand of the Dead ?

I've read that book, it shows the vengeance of Benedetto toward Dantés, closing the cicle. I'm surprised no one has written an article about it.

http://www.tiendaociojoven.com/trade/productview/266617/4451/?

-- miguel.royo. Dec. 2 2004.

[edit] the count of monte cristo

There are many sequels to The Count of Monte Cristo, but none of them was written by Dumas. Dumas himself said that he does not think this kind of novel could have a successful sequel. And he was probably right, since all these sequels are hardly worth mentioning, including that one.

But there was a sort of sequel. I forget the name but it was one of Dumas' short stories. Apparently de Vilfort managed to gain some of his sanitity back and he is on his deathbed. He confesses before Valentine and Max that she isn't really his daughter, but was instead switched with the dead one for some finacial reason. The story was definatly a sequel because all the names are the same and de Vilfort even mentions the Count and his unfair treatment towards him. I know Dumas wrote it as it was part of a volume of his work.

[edit] character descriptions, spoilers, plot summary questions

I've started to describe the characters of the book, but I'm not sure how much should be revealed in each description.

Take for example Dantès. He's later known as the Count of Monte Cristo, among other names. On one hand, it's good to mention the other names that Dantès uses, as a means of keeping track of names. On the other hand, listing the names does spoil any sense of surprise or mystery.

What do you think?

I'm still reading the book (never read it before), so my contributions to this article will be limited before then.

I do think that the plot description should be restructured so that it flows in a more chronological manner. I just don't like how the current summary throws in at the end basically, "oh by the way, Maximilien Morrel is in love with the daughter of the guy who sent Dantès to prison".

That being said, this article is already more developed than a lot of book articles on Wikipedia. --Tachikoma 05:36, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] More Characters?

Some of the minor or other characters should be added in the character section. I don't know all of them (I haven't finished the book yet), but I know that there is a certain Monsieur Cavalcanti (I think), the Villefort's had a son (or was it the Dangar's), and maybe some other minor characters. Another example, a few of the important sailors in the beginning. You think any of them should be added? It would help keep track of the numerous amount of characters that are throughout the book. - May 5, 2006

Ah, I added Valentine Villefort, Noirtier de Villefort, and Baron Franz d'Epinay yesterday, August 5, 2006. I think that Madame Villefort (Valentine's stepmother should be added, along with a few others that I will try to get to soon.

(UAAC 01:37, 7 August 2006 (UTC))

[edit] Translations

Does anybody have any information regarding which English translation is the best one to read? Both in terms of style/readability and accuracy.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.87.80.100 (talk • contribs) .

There seem to be two common translations of the unabridged version. The first is fairly old, and seems to be used by both the Modern Library and Oxford World's Classics in their editions. The Penguin Classics edition uses a new translation by Robin Buss. According to the Penguin edition's introduction (which I don't have in front of me at the moment), the translation focused on keeping the spirit of the original intact. I own both the Oxford and the Penguin editions, but I find the Penguin edition much more readable. Whatever you do, choose an unabridged version. Lord Bodak 03:00, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

On another note, something really should be in the article about the history of the text-- since there are so many abridged versions out there, and multiple translations, and (I believe) multiple sources of the original French that don't always agree. The only source I've been able to find is Robin Buss's introduction to his translation-- when I get my copy back I'll try and put something together based on that. Lord Bodak 11:02, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

A few new ISBNs have been added beyond what I considered the minimum acceptable. This begs the question, how many should we have? I initially added three-- a one-volume edition in the original French, and the two most common unabridged English translations. Another French edition has been added, and I consider that superfluous. The Wordsworth English edition has also been added-- it appears to be another printing of the 1846 translation. If so, I do not think it needs to be listed either. A classic like this has been published countless times; only significant editions should be listed here, in my opinion. Lord Bodak 01:22, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

I added both those ISBNs, feel free to remove them. Aericanwizard 02:01, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sequels

I don't know how accurate it is, but I found a site that lists a majority of the works of Dumas, and quoting the site : "From Notes on the Works of Dumas by C. Conrad Cady: Many forgeries and deriviative works have come from the novel The Count of Monte Cristo, but the only ones to come from the hand of Dumas, are the plays Monte Cristo, Le Comte de Morcerf, and Villefort."Aericanwizard 15:09, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Subplots

I just added a brief section to the plot summary concerning the many subplots of the novel. I believe that it is noteworthy to mention how the story often deviates from Edmond's story of revenge, only to reveal that it has done no such thing. The depth of this novel is astounding, and I believe that the many subplots are largely responsible. Add more subplots as necessary. Aericanwizard 15:46, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Revert?

I was going through the history of the page, and I noticed that there was a case of vandalism way back on July 3. In it, a few sections that included influences, adaptations, themes, and trivia were deleted. I'm wondering whether we should restore these sub-sections and which ones to restore, if we do. I would have just restored them, but wanted some other input. By the way, I like the expansion and reworking that has been taking place, but we could probably use some citations, and some official critiques of the novel. Good job to all involved! Aericanwizard 18:41, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] ship title question: Pharaon or Pharoah?

Hello, I've read this book in French but not in English. Seeing as this is English Wikipedia, would it be better to translate the ship's name into English? More importantly, which name is used in English language printings of this book? Thanks for your time. --Tachikoma 16:51, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

In the translations that I have read, the name of the ship is still The Pharaon. Although the translation to English would suggest changing the name to The Pharoah, the ship is still a French ship. Aericanwizard 19:18, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Do you feel that it's important to mention the English translation in the article? If I didn't speak a word of French, the name would strike me as a bit odd. For that matter, the name of the ship is not important to the overall story, so perhaps it could be deleted entirely. --Tachikoma 19:47, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

I agree that the name of the ship is irrelevant, moreso because the name of the ship does not serve any sense of foreshadowing to the events which are to come. However, in a summary of a story as presented here, it is noteworthy enough to mention the name of the ship, similar to how Jason sails aboard The Argonaut, and how Nero captains The Nautilus. Granted, those ships play a much larger role in their respective stories, but I believe the name of the ship, whatever it is, should stay. Perhaps a "Trivia" or "Notes" area could be developed for the article, where the translation of the name could be given. Aericanwizard 20:13, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] which language should be used for character names?

Hello, I read this book in French, but I suppose that most people who are reading this Wikipedia article have read/will read the book in English. I don't know if the character names are given any differently from one language to another. This could potentially make a difference in characters such as Mercédès, Haydée, and Maximilien. Are the character names spelled differently in English language editions? I'm asking this because of the character list of the article, where someone (OK, me) will put the French spelling, and then someone else will change it. Thanks. --Kyoko 21:07, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Question about Villefort

So did Villefort know that Benedetto was alive when he buried him? I've read almost to the end of the book, and up until the part where Benedetto is on trial, I was under the impression that Villefort thought that the child was dead when he buried it, but when Benedetto reveals that he is Villefort's son, he makes it sound as though Villefort knew that he was alive and lied to Mme. Danglars about him being dead in order to cover up the affair.--Azer Red Si? 22:06, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Initially Villefort and Mme. Danglars thought the child to be dead, but Villefort discovered the child was alive before he buried it.

Actually no - Villefort and Mrs. Danglars thought the child is dead and Villefort buried the child in the coffin. Moments after that, Benedetto stubbed him and took the coffin, thinking that there is some treasure in it. He run away with the coffin and opened it when he was near some river. He also thought that the child was dead, but since he had some medical training, he tried to re-animate the baby and eventually succeeded. Some months or even a year later, after Villeford was cured from his wound, he returned to the house and found that the coffin is missing. So he started some dummy police investigation and eventually found out that the certain child was given to the orphanage that night, but was later claimed by some woman. He was unable to find the child, but he suspected it to be alive. He didn't tell Mrs. Danglars about that, so she thought the child to be dead. BTW should Cavalcanti had married Miss. Danglars, he would have been marrying his half-sister. DejanR

[edit] Persona

Persona is a singular word. Edmond Dantès assumes a persona. In fact, he assumes multiple personae. He does not "assume a person." The plural of the word "persona" is "personae" or "personas." See [1] -- Ccady 18:08, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Albert Edmund's Son?

The article currently states that Edmund impregnated Mercedes before his incarceration, but I think that this line is false, and possibly vandalism. I'm pretty sure that the novel states that Mercedes waited more than a year before marrying Fernand, which would make it impossible for Albert to be Edmund's son. I don't have my copy of the novel with me, but can someone check into it? Aericanwizard 20:51, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Good point, I was only thinking in terms of grammar when I last edited the article. I think you might be right, but I haven't read the book in a while and can't be certain. BTW, I read it in French, so I am unfamiliar with how/if the character names (e.g. Edmond) are translated in the English language versions. If "Edmund" is more commonly used in the English translations, perhaps it should be used in the article. --Kyoko 21:12, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

I think that is a typo on my part. I think it is translated as "Edmond". I'll check my copy of the novel as soon as I can, and make the necessary changes. Aericanwizard 21:37, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Yes, it states that she waited 18 months before marrying Fernand, making it impossible that Albert is Edmond's son. Aericanwizard 02:05, 9 February 2007 (UTC)