Talk:The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant, the Unbeliever

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Contents 1 Duplication? 2 Proposal to merge Caesure 3 Proposal for work on SRD's Covenant and related articles 4 Words of Power? 5 Ugh. 6 Elohim 7 List and description of locations important to the story 8 Demondim 9 The 7 Wards.

[edit] Duplication?

I'm just wondering (in the nicest possible way) why this page exists, when the same material is covered in Stephen_R._Donaldson. Surely the wiki does not need both? Nevilley

I think so. It allows more space for the world of TC, and allows direct redirects. (I actually came here, because I needed a link to a SF book where Giants are friendly, for the Mythology Giants page) - Marco V

Btw, TC did have leprosy in the other wolrd, but it was cured by the "woundclay" (I read a translation, don't know the original english world). Soon after he realised he was cured, he raped Lena.

"hurtloam" in English. But woundclay was close enough.--Barry 18:30, Dec 21, 2004 (UTC)

I'd like to start working on doing a little expanding. Major characters, races, etc., but I'm waiting until I finish rereading the 1st and 2nd Chronicles.--Barry 18:30, Dec 21, 2004 (UTC)

fwiw - I think this material belongs here too. Wiki is becoming a store of anything/everything. What a nice "re-living" of these books for me, 20 years removed from when I read them, some of whose scenes still stand out in my mind today (e.g., "Nom"). I might someday have though of doing a general net search on them and may have found the "official" pages; but while on Wiki I am much more inclined to mine past read books, visited places, etc.

[edit] Proposal to merge Caesure

I'd do this myself, but haven't read the book so can't be certain of the accuracy of the article. JulesH 19:54, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

• merge and redirect Thatcher131 08:43, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

{{supportvote}} - as there is little in the main article so far - :: Kevinalewis : ^{(Talk Page)} 13:03, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

there is now an article for the novel The Runes of the Earth into which this should more properly be merged. :: Kevinalewis : ^{(Talk Page)}/_(Desk) 12:53, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Merge per Kevinalewis. --M1ss1ontomars2k4 23:46, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Proposal for work on SRD's Covenant and related articles

As you might be able to guess, I'm a fan of the Chronicles. These articles seem like they could use better formatting and arrangement, and I'm willing to help. I'd prefer to avoid treading on any toes, despite the "be bold" admonishment.

My ideal would be an article for every Covenant book, but that might not be justified given Donaldson's small following. I'd settle for a detailed seperate article on each "Chronicles" set (first, second, and last). Naturally, the information could then be removed from the article on Mr. Donaldson himself, and replaced with a link to the proper articles.

Are there any comments, or objections to my going ahead with this idea? -Kasreyn 08:07, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

No objection at all, quite the reverse. This is work that needs doing, Please can I vote for an article per book (i.e. 7 so far), with "Maybe" one for each triolgy as well but this is a secondary thing. I'm quite willing to help with this process if it is agreeable. One more thing could the articles please be structured using the Wikipedia:WikiProject Novels/ArticleTemplate pattern of the writing of such articles. :: Kevinalewis : ^{(Talk Page)} 09:35, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

Yes, a different section for each of the series and/or books would be nice. Furthermore, caesures should certainly be moved into the article - if there are no separate articles for each book, why have one for a term from one of the books? -RetardudGenius 18:26, 04 March 2006 (UTC)

Just to chip in, I came across this page and was surprised that the first chronicle has a page per book (and the first book of the third chronicle) but the second chronicle has only entries for each book on the page (and not in hugely less detail than the single book pages) and no individual pages. I would at least consider adding a redirect from a page called, for instance White Gold Wielder to this page - but separate pages per book would be better. I'll do this unless anyone more 'owning' of the page wants to --Mortice 16:52, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Done it - moved the 2nd chronicle book synopses into separate pages and changed this page to have links. I don't know enough about 'Gilden-Fire' to know if that should be done as well --Mortice 18:49, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Words of Power?

Should something be added about the words of power? (You know, "Melenkurion abatha! Duroc minas mil khabaal!")

Hmm, possibly, but really almost nothing is known about them but their names. We don't really know what effect they have, aside from possibly boosting spells or banishing/binding/exorcising Ravers - and even these are pure speculation which Donaldson refuses to answer. As far as I can tell, their purpose is merely to add strangeness and a feeling of fantastic history to the Land, plus they just sound cool. I'd find it hard justifying their inclusion, since they're completely incidental and have nothing to do with the plot. -Kasreyn 11:28, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

Hmm, I agree - they could be given a passing mantion in a larger article, nothing more. :: Kevinalewis : ^{(Talk Page)} 14:38, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ugh.

Must we really have those godawful covers by Darrel K. Sweet on the article? If I remember correctly, even Donaldson himself has joined in the general disgust over their ugliness. Besides, those editions are out of print as far as I know. Covers of the new paperback edition - with the ring - would definitely be easier on the eyes. Kasreyn 22:02, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

I liked the British printed covers myself, but those are awful and garish. Douglasnicol 15:20, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Here's a sample of the initial British covers...

http://www.eternalnight.co.uk/books/d/donaldsonstephen/lordfoulsbane.jpg

Far, far superior. Anything would be better than what we currently have. I would prefer a photo of the interior of a litterbox to anything by Darrel K. Sweet. He draws every single character the same - thin, hard-bitten face with a red nose. Someone should teach him how to draw flesh. Kasreyn 01:50, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

The British covers also seem to bear some relevance, as I would imagine the Lord Fouls Bane cover is an image of Kevin's Watch.

Sorry guys but these are the covers I grew up reading. I don't object if someone has the new bookscovers and wants to scan them in. I think we should leave them until then. FrankWilliams 20:13, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Please, not the covers with the YELLOW gold ring. This is not LotR, these are about Thomas Covenant, WHITE Gold Wielder. Besides which, Donaldson hates the newest covers. Loathes them. Now, the previous covers to that would be excellent. The ones that create one continuous portrait. Beautiful landscapes and characters. (Michael Herring is the artist)

I'd would tend to agree that the orignal covers were something I grew up with and should remain in the article. However, why not also include the currently printed covers with them. Coradon

[edit] Elohim

Is anyone familiar enough with the Elohim (they are mentioned under giants, and are featured in the second chronicles linden avery series) to write a race article for them? They are missing. I would then be able to post a link to the Chronicles on the Elohim article, as I do believe they deserve mention. Consider that one was quite essential to reforming the staff of law. Tyciol 17:17, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] List and description of locations important to the story

We should include the important locations, with a description of them and perhaps their role in the story. Though I imagine that pages will be setup with a synopsis for each of the books, I feel that seperate pages for the various location will flesh out more of the background of each book. Currently I can see adding pages for:

Revelstone

Mount Thunder/Kiril Threndor
Trothguard/Revelwood
Landsdrop
Mithil Stonedown
Coercri
Foul's Creche
Kevin's Watch
Grimmerdhore/Morrinmoss/Garroting Deep
Andelain
etc etc

Granted there is no reason to nickle and dime it with every place mentioned in the Chronicles, but some of the important ones should have more detailed info. Coradon

I am currently trawling through the Covenant works in particular as time allows trying to edit The Land (fiction) Help is welcome. Feel free to leave notes and ideas on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Loyola/Covenant/ Loyola 11:06, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Demondim

Why does the article call the Demondim semi-corporeal and link them with undead? Does this come from the 2004 book? Did I miss some other reference? Dan 23:52, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

   As I understand it, the Demondim were spirits who could possess people and creatures and even the dead. Coradon 15:31, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Yes, it is new information revealed in Runes of the Earth. I asked the same question myself when this appeared here in this article, and I have verified it in the book. However, that is about all we know, relayed third-hand by a character in the book, not directly experienced any characters. The details may change as the last series unfolds. Maybe we should put a "Current Events" tag here! *grin* --Carboncopy 17:19, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

It is said in the book. Yet one must remember how "truth" was corrupted between Trilogy 1 and Trilogy 2. What is said of the Demondim may be the same situation. Loyola 07:44, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The 7 Wards.

Was there any information released concerning what the 3rd,4th,5th and 6th wards were, and where they were located? Thats been one of my main questions I've had over the last 20 years. Has anyone ever done some fan fiction concerning them? Coradon 15:35, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

I don't know about fan fiction, but SRD has not given any more details on the other wards, either in his books or in interviews. He hints that they may become a factor in the Last Chronicles, but he is very circumspect on the subject. See the Gradual Interview at his website. -- Carboncopy 17:24, 9 December 2006 (UTC)