Talk:The Big O

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Archives Plot analysis Series production Article improvement discussion

Contents 1 Revised lead section 2 Plot summary 3 Paradigm City article 4 Changes to main article 5 GA Nom 5.1 Featured? 6 Roger Smith 7 GA on hold (hang on!)

[edit] Revised lead section

I just did some editing to the lead section. I'm new at this, so I'd appreciate any mistakes I may have made be pointed out so I don't make them again.

I hope this to be the first of my contributions to The Big O article. This is one of my all-time favorite animes, and I'd like this article to reach A-status.

[edit] Plot summary

The plot section has been revised, but far from complete. I'm thinking some sub-sections about the factions in Paradigm (Paradigm Corporation, the Military Police, and The Union) should be included. So, anyone? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Nohansen (talk • contribs) .

It should be noted that we don't write plot summaries in order to summarize every detail of a show. WP:NOT#Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information part 7 says: "Plot summaries. Wikipedia articles on works of fiction should contain real-world context and sourced analysis, offering detail on a work's achievements, impact or historical significance, not solely a summary of that work's plot. A plot summary may be appropriate as an aspect of a larger topic."

You might want to check out the guideline WP:WAF about this. -- Ned Scott 00:39, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Paradigm City article

I propose the Setting section be split into its own article. The article is getting kinda big, and since "Setting" is the biggest section it makes sense (to me). In a separate article it could be better edited and serves its purpose(s) better. Heck, Gotham has its own article. Why not Paradigm?--Nohansen 13:47, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

i Particularily agree to the splitting of paradigim city its too long and if someone was lookin for something might not want an exhuberently long article--Spartan117009 22:06, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Changes to main article

I tried to avoid it, I don't like deleting other people's work, but some things just had to go. Other, were out of place. If someone would start work on SteveA026's suggested List of allusions in The Big O, they could be reincorporated.--Nohansen 15:57, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] GA Nom

This seems like a very good article to me. The only things I can point is that the writing, if good, is sometimes a little weak, specially in the lead. And the text about the characters should wrap to get rid of the white space. Ah, also, I'm sure the first sentence of the "style" part could be rephrased to make sure it is not OR at all. I'll come back for a more thorough review. Cheers!--SidiLemine 16:09, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Here are some problems that I have found:

Writing:

• contractions: didn't, wouldn't, doesn't, wasn't, don't, there's, it's, he'd. No more contractions.
• Wikipedia:Words to avoid: however. No more "howevers".
• User:Tony1/How_to_satisfy_Criterion_1a#Eliminating_redundancy additives: also, more, finally. Also done.
• "40 Years" - Sentences should not start with numbers - should be "Forty years" - and should not start with "And". Did it.
• Years are wikilinked with no context. Removed wikilink.

Context:

• There is some in-universe prose - "Forty years ago" - in-universe, "Forty years before the commencement of the story" - out-universe. Correct in some places but not in others. Corrected where needed.
• "But they manage to make do and go on living, trying their hardest at a life without knowledge of what did or didn't happen." - this line could be moved out of the lead section, perhaps into plot. Worked the line into the plot, removed from lead.
• "The Big O revolves around the concept of memories" - The Big O is a character as well as the name of the show. What is "revolving around" a concept? Reword. (Like "The Big O's main theme is the concept of memories.") Reworded as suggested.
• "just like nightmares," Roger says, "can appear when you least expect them." - what episode(s) is this from? You can use that as a footnote. Is this what (Act:04) and (Act:10) refer to? It isn't clear to the reader. Changed all instances of (Act:??) to quotes.
• Reception section could be moved higher in the article. Didn't move it. I used as example Excel Saga, and now Serial Experiments Lain, and both have Reception section near the end.
• The Big O: Season One and The Big O: Season Two could just be season one and season two (lower case). Did it.
• References could be displayed in two columns. Did it, but isn't showing. Any idea why?
• "The season ends by introducing elements that will come into play during Season Two. The existence of people outside of Paradigm City. The book "Metropolis" written by Gordon Rosewater, Paradigm's founder. The World destroyed by a Cataclysm. The Power of God wielded by Man. Giant robots run amok. The truth, the lies, behind them all." - Maybe this should be all one sentence separated by semicolons. It doesn't make sense if the reader doesn't understand the context. These aren't proper sentences by themselves, join them somehow or make them bullet points. Done.
• What is "an over-reaching storyline"? Changed to "continuous."
• "These episodes move Alex Rosewater, CEO of the Paradigm Corporation, center stage as a direct antagonist to The Negotiator. It also introduces The Union, a new faction in the War of Paradigm City. In Season Two, Paradigm City becomes a grand stage where past, and future, memories play themselves out." - These sentences are narration. When text uses narration it stops being an encyclopedia article and starts being a review. Please reword. Lines such as "and started bouncing ideas off each other", "there was nothing quite like it" and "When word came the series would be shortened to 13" are also untidy. All done.
• There are quotes by themselves with no context at all. I'm not sure if that violates WP policy, but I haven't seen in on an anime article before, especially in any of our Good/Featured articles. Removed the quotes.
• city, community, pets - linked but do they add to the article by providing context? I think these words are common enough to exclude wikilinks to their articles. Removed the links.
• section headings: "The Style" section - A couple of points, wikipedia section do not ever start with "the". There should be context at the start of this section. A short sentence on what the section is about. The influences section (should just be Influences) has a line that does this but it has a problem "The similarities between Batman and The Big O are many" - how many? See User:Tony1/How_to_satisfy_Criterion_1a#Eliminating_redundancy Rearranged the style and influences sections.
• "pastiche" needs a wikilink. Linked "pastiche"

--Squilibob 10:16, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

I made the changes as suggested. What I couldn't figure out how to change where the "episode notes." How should it be done? Change to "(See Act:01)"? Add a reference that reads "See Act:01"; or maybe add it to Notes section? An example would be nice. Ah, also: I tried to display the references in columns, but its not working.--Nohansen 14:57, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Please see Madlax, Serial Experiments Lain and Planetes for good examples on how to quote episodes.--SidiLemine 16:03, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the examples. Now I'm done with the quotes.--Nohansen 22:44, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Very good work overall. I personally see no objections left to GA, and I think it should go to FAC after another peer review (announcing the FAC intention). Maybe list it with the good folks of the League of Extraordinary Copyeditors in the meantime, to ensure good text quality. --SidiLemine 09:31, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Featured?

I'm wondering: What does an article need to be featured? 'Cause right now, I'm just about tapped out of ideas on what to do with the article.--Nohansen 04:24, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Why not let the Featured article candidate commentators tell you? But before you do that, you might want to clean up Paradigm City. The FAC regulars do not like it when the "summary" of the daughter article is better sourced and/or written the daughter article itself. If I know Sandy, you're going to get an earful for wrapping {{main}} around such an article. See the FAC page for Germany if you don't believe me (hint: Type in Ctrl+F, type in "Education", and then press "Next" three times.).--Rmky87 00:20, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

I think the only thing that would be a problem, apart from the main articles above, would be the amount of print sources. The "FAC people" give a lot more value to print sources (be it essays, books, magazines, or dictionnaries) than they do to websites. One or two magazione interviews (newtype USA comes to mind), and an essay (be it by an undergraduate, the trick is to have "p. 36" somwhere :) - be sure to archive this talk page before you go to FAC!). On this matter, the ISBN for "The Big O Visual", ref n°31, is lacking. If you ask me, add 5 print sources, add some more sources to the Paradigm City article, reduce the size of the Big O template (maybe make it two columns?), and it's pretty much guaranteed FA status sooner or later.--SidiLemine 09:49, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

I was actually just wondering why none of the sources in this article's summary were in the daughter article. I'm embarrassed to say that I never thought of those other things.--Rmky87 06:13, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

From the looks of things, you're going to have to actually buy this book, if you haven't already, because I couldn't find the ISBN anywhere. A good page to add a specific page number from that book would be the first note in the section I created for the footnotes. The featured article commentators really hate when you force them to look through an entire book for one lousy fact, which is why articles with references at the bottom get FARC'd for having no inline citations. And don't be surprised if professional copyeditor types point out a whole laundry list of prose problems. I didn't see any, but I'm not one of them.--Rmky87 18:32, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Added the ISBN-10 number. If it matters, the ISBN-13 number is 978-4575295795. See here.--Nohansen 19:05, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Ref #24 looks like it should be in the notes section, with the reference in cite.php and a {{ja icon}} or some other such warning to English readers somewhere! Seriously, I had absolutely no idea until I saw the Amazon page.--Rmky87 06:58, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Roger Smith

I have seen all the episodes of Big O and something keeps on getting me, how old is Roger Smith? I have heard that he 25, 30, and 40. He helped Gordon Rosewater rebuild Paradigm after the Event(as seen in picture I think form episode 25) which means he must be old. He doesn't have gray hair. Could date Dorothy. Around episode 13 and 14, his flash back suggested that he was poor 40 years ago and the same age that he is now. Also, is the real Roger Smith an actor? Big O was a comic on the back of a newspaper and it was a play. Another thing is Roger being an android. His he? There was a mass production of Roger's in episode 26. Tell me what you think.--RogerSmith026 01:16, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] GA on hold (hang on!)

Sorry, the reviewer forgot to put the tag on the candidates page. Wiki-newbie 20:23, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Do you mean Squilibob? --SidiLemine 09:00, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Yeah. Wiki-newbie 16:21, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

I don't have time to comb over the article again. If someone wants to review the GA nom then that would be great. --Squilibob 01:03, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

I feel the article meets all GA criteria, and all objections have been actioned. So I hereby declare this article a Good Article, until it reaches FA status, or until fanboy additions make it unreadeable. Congrats everyone!--SidiLemine 15:28, 9 January 2007 (UTC)