Talk:The 4400

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Contents 1 Corrections 2 The Future 3 Could this be clarified 4 Is this accurate? 5 Questions of Source 6 List format 7 Scientology 8 4400 Userbox 9 US Rating to be added 10 The Visitor 11 Errors/Odd Dialogue 12 CBS and USA 13 Too many American 4400 14 creating a subpage for all characters. 15 How to make links consistent? 16 Episode List 17 Product Placement 18 NPOV Issue? 19 Allusions to Judeo-Christian texts all removed 20 Allusions to Scientology all removed 21 Product Placement Removed 22 Agent Marco 23 Shawn Farrell 24 Number of episodes 25 The ripple effect 26 Waterboarding controversy 27 1946 28 episodes up for deletion 29 CFD notice for Category:The 4400 30 Cleanup tag 31 The 4400 Wiki 32 CFD notice 33 CfD

[edit] Corrections

I corrected the part where it talked about the the third season, from future to present and past tenses. Damir H.

[edit] The Future

Should there be a section on the main page that deals soley with "The Future;" what has there agenda been hinted to be, characters from/in the future?

You know The 4400 is about the future of research into neurotransmitters, and the human brain. There isn't any Scientology in the program because the drug or substance pormicin would be rejected by the Church of Scientology.

The discovery of promicin or drug like it, could have caused the attack on the World Trade Center. The explosion of the warehouse in the last episode of The 4400 was to play up a possible connection to WTC, and a common drug that may have a use in basic inflence telepathy. Each disclipine has a powerful storehouse of belief and knowledge to draw from, in religion, to psychiatry and science. This means basic and new concepts of the human mind face immediate rejection, even among scientists.

The future maybe about psychiatric, and religious idea of collective consciousness, and the human mind. Or it could one day be a world of cellphones, brains that electronically interface with machines, with the individual lifeforce of man rejected by science, and a planet with psychotronic weapons. Which can affect human perception, belief, and conscious thought. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 198.200.181.205 (talk • contribs) .

I've read these three paragraphs five times, and I'm having a heck of a time understanding what you're trying to suggest. As best as I can tell, you're offering a suggestion as to what the future people might be planning. Such speculation is WP:OR ("Like most Wikipedia policies, No original research applies to articles, not to talk pages or project pages, although it is regarded as poor taste to discuss personal theories on talk pages."), and clearly shouldn't be added to the main article. Travisl 21:52, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

You know I watched The NBC show "Heros", I think the Japanese have learned about Promicin, and are using it in Japan for telepathy. Except the writers of "Heros" claim that a persons genetic code needs to evolve to give them superpowers. Any one who is intelligent, and creative should benefit from Promicin. Don't you think its normal for people in the United States and Canada to believe Promicin can give any one superpowers? In Japan they believe a person has to be highly evolved to benefit from Promicin. Where is the Promicn in the Heros program? It in the different neurotransmitters, at work in each of the individual characters.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 198.200.181.205 (talk • contribs).

[edit] Could this be clarified

"The baby Isabelle, believed by some to be the future savior of mankind, has no qualms about violently killing people who get in her way." Seems to be a bit misleading or unclear to me, a case could be made that those that were killed, were killed in self defence, while Jordan apparently is no longer dead according to the final episode of season 2, though she has used her powers to cause pain and in ways which seem bad, the consequences are usually good as in the frightening hallucinations shown to her mother to get her to return to the other 4400 and so give them access to Isabelles' untainted promicin. We don't for that matter know that it is Isabelle herself who is controlling her powers or preprogrammed responses from the future as in the case of Alana Marevas' preprogrammed ability to create an hallucinatory alternate reality.

[edit] Is this accurate?

"The baby Isabelle, believed by some to be the future savior of mankind, has no qualms about violently killing people who get in her way." Seems to be a bit misleading to me, a case could be made that those that were killed, were killed in self defence, while

• archive

Richard and Lilly have no known abilities. Isabelle has the telepathic power.

Not entirely accurate. In the closing montage of the season two finale, Richard is shown using a power that can be assumed to be telekinesis.

That episode only appeared, what?, 2 weeks ago? The page was written some time back and probably hasn't been kept as up to date as it could be. Update it! --emb021

I jigged the tables around a little bit and linked the episode titles to the official website. For the time being I've used the 'Logline' from the official site as the episode recap, though I plan to re-write these myself before too long so as to avoid copyright infringement shenanigans, please feel free to edit the recaps yourself though, not sure how long it'll be until I can be bothered to do them! Ghandir 00:06, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Questions of Source

As I have watching [The 4400] I couldn't help but feel like I have seen this before. Read this before. Heard this before. And slow, but surely, it came to me.

While some of the elements are new, most of the story elements can be found in Comic Book Source material. Indeed, you don't have to look to far to find it all!

[Rising Stars] In JMS's outstanding work, a Glowing ball comes from the sky and enhances a specific number of people with superhuman powers. Ultimately, it is discovered that the 113 Supers were 'programmed' with these powers to become an army to fight for a better tomorrow.

A similar story can be found in The Bible.

[Critical Maas] One of the Supers from Rising Stars, Stephanie 'Critical' Maas, who was mentally ill, had the ability to compel others to her will.

Sauron did this in Lord of the Rings.

[Jack Hawksmoor] One of the Authority, Jack Hawksmoor suffered from Multiple Abductions, each one accompanied by a surgrey to enhance him. Ultimately, it was discovered that not Aliens but people from the future were enhancing him in order to protect humanity from a threat in the future.

Greg Bear covered this in the Eon series.

Uh, no future people ever abducted anyone in the Eon series. Nor was there ever a belief that the future people were aliens - I mean, it was revealed very early in the first book that they were future people, with a 2021 printing of The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn found in the Thistledown? And there were never any forced surgeries on the present-people by the future-people.

[Jenny Quantum] Another of the Authority (Characters), Jenny Quantum was born on the 1st of January 2000 after her predecessor, Jenny Sparks, sacrificed herself. Quantum will have a huge impact on her century, much like the impact Isobel will have in [The 4400].

Also in The Bible.

You keep saying that. It is a big book full of myths and legends. Give specific references.

While it can be said that it could be unrelated, inspiration rarely happens in a vacuum.

The creators of this show are adults. Adults do not usually read comic books.

Comic books are no longer as tame as they used to be; some of them are definitely for adult audiences.

That's to say nothing of the fact that adults are actually the primary target market these days.

That's like saying video games aren't played by adults. Anyone who grew up with comics could easily have retained an interest even if the medium hadn't grown up along with its fans. Furthermore even if someone no longer read comics, had perhaps last read them in childhood, those stories and images would remain an influence.

Oh, yes, definitely... I wouldn't expect the entire idea or even most of it to be entirely original. It's not always the original ideas that are appealing - it's the way in which they manifest. I like this show much more than I would like any of those other works. That's because of its production, writing, and medium. --Fashnek 22:52, 3 September 2005 (UTC)

It's stupid to think that the creators of this show drew from those specific comic books to come up with this idea. First of all, the very first thing any novice writer learns is that no matter how original or novel an idea may seem, it's inevitable that it's been done before; the key to making it interesting lies in the characterization rather than the McGuffins. Secondly, the comic book industry is so prolific -- like the soap opera world -- that you could reasonably assemble a case for plagiarism for *any* fictional TV show just by picking and choosing from disparate sources. When your job is cranking out 10 junk-serials a week, that are pure fantasy with no hard-scientific parameters and no logic necessary you will surely burn through a bunch of standalone concepts. So what? That's a consequence of quantity of ideas, not quality. Finally, you're a fool to imagine that the specific ideas you listed were originally put to paper inside comic books; you ought to try out actual literature -- sans pictures --; you might be surprised. Heck, almost all of it is rehashed pulp sci-fi. And you can find science fiction authors like Vernor Vinge, Greg Bear and Poul Anderson writing all about those ideas, skillfully and without need of pretty pictures, throughout the 80s.

most of the stuff i saw, i saw also on a show called "Odyssey 5", created by manny coto. some of the plot changed, switching the aliens with humans from future, or expanding the timeline, besides expanding the whole thing.

No-one is going to pay attention if you belittle a genuine artform. Denigrating remarks about pictures just indicates you have missed what it has to offer.

Everybody borrows ideas and there is nothing wrong with that. Corporate greed would love to put a stop to it though.

[edit] List format

I feel like there should be some sort of organization for the list of "Returnees." Something like alphabetical order or a sorting by abduction date. Right now, I'm not sure how it's sorted; there's no indication. I questioningly suspect order of appearance. --Fashnek 20:19, 28 August 2005 (UTC)

Maybe we could make a seperate page with a list of all returnees and keep the regulars on the main page. I'm too lazy to do it myself, but for anyone that wants to try, take a look at these flash doohickies from the official site: [1] and [2]. The first one stores 134 names and abduction dates in an image (I extracted it, if someone in interested I might get off my lazy behind and figure out how to get it on wikipedia), it's bad quality though, you'd have to retype it, most names haven't appeared on the series (yet, I presume). The second one has very detailed info about 25 of the returnees, I think these are all the ones that have actually been on the series. It includes stuff like age, haircolour, a picure and abilities. I don't know if it's legal, ethical or wikipedianly (though to be honest I personally don't see any harm done, the information is freely availible just like the series itself, which seems to be a citable source), but it's an easy copy 'n' paste from the consulted xml file. The modular nature suggests that this file will be updated as more returnees appear on the series. --84.28.33.167 16:24, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

Excellent find. At this point I would say it's best if only names and information directly from the series are considered for the article, so I would say just the names and information from actual episodes. As for the separate page, I have a feeling it would get VfD'd just for lack of utility. Then again, I have seen long-lived articles of much less value. I don't know, but I suppose it should be kept open as an option. --Fashnek 20:49, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

• I think the returnees would be better presented as a table: name, actor, disappearance date, abilities, status (dec., etc)... I'm willing to do the table, but I'd like to hear some agreement that this format would be prefered. Last column would be a catch-all "remarks". Ideas, please? Ð’n^talk 02:41, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Scientology

Am I the only one who's noticed that the 4400 Center and its doctrines seem kind of similar to Scientology? They seek celebrities to advance their cause, their doctrine is based on a book which seems a mix of pop psychology and science fiction (although, in this case, it seems to be correct), they say that anyone can awaken the 4400 powers within themselves, and they have a "leveling" system similar to Scientology's OT levels. There's more, and I could be more specific, but I haven't seen the show since August, so my memory fails me. Teflon Don 19:51, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

Did you happen to read the article? Wasted Time R 21:21, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

My apologies; I saw the part about Christian allegory, missed the part about Scientology. Never mind. Teflon Don 06:04, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] 4400 Userbox

Just wanna let some people around here know that I made a 4400 userbox. Enjoy. {{User:UBX/The 4400}} --Buchanan-Hermit™..CONTRIBS..SPEAK! 08:17, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] US Rating to be added

...so?

[edit] The Visitor

This entire series is a rip off of a 1997 Fox show The Visitor. 172.185.148.34 20:19, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

A very, very long stretch. They share some ideas, but the stories have essentially no similarity. For one thing The Visitor was largely a standard 'character wanders from place to place and has an adventure each episode' series

[edit] Errors/Odd Dialogue

Did anyone else notice that when Jordan was shot, Shawn said in a really shocked voice "Shawn-" in the same fashion that you would have expected him to say "Jordan--" Seems that the actor would have noticed that he was saying his own character's name, you know?

--I just watched that episode, he said "A shot?!?" in a shocked manner, as in, "I cant believe a bullet just plowed through my mentor's body while he was about to make a public appeal for unity."

---I just watched on the DVD, he says "Shawn?!" pretty clearly.

I just watched it, and repeated the clip a few times to make sure- Shawn says "Jordan?". It's sort of muffled, but it sounds like, if you listen carefully, two syllables, and "Jordan" makes far more sense than "Shawn", or even "a shot?". Also, this transcript site also indicates that Shawn said Jordan's name: http://www.twiztv.com/scripts/4400/season2/the4400-206.htm

[edit] CBS and USA

Why is CBS producing a show which airs on USA, a division of rival NBC? 172.133.149.41 02:11, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

It's probably because of the split between Viacom and CBS. The production company went with CBS. So why did Viacom produce it? Because that's what they do. They have made shows for all the major networks. – Pedantic79 ^(talk) 03:16, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

Caroline in the City comes to mind.--Attitude2000 18:50, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

I changed the wording of sentence in the article to indicate that Viacom Productions became Paramount Network Television and finally CBS Paramount Network Television. Closing logos of Viacom#1990–2005. – Pedantic79 ^(talk) 01:41, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Too many American 4400

There's clearly an American bias in the 4400. I know it's intended primarily for an American audience, but I still think it's interesting. The USA has 5% of the world's population, and if the people from the future took 4400 randomly that would mean 220 of the 4400 would be Americans.

The pilot episode says that there were 4400s from China and India (China wouldn't let Chinese 4400s back in, India was thinking of doing the same).

I just watched the whole first season on DVD, and I also find it interesting how some 4400 did things which should have been very trivial to the people from the future (cleaning up a park, ect).

Just food for thought.

172.133.149.41 02:47, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

What the hell are you talking about? dposse 17:37, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

The problem with the whole 'bias' thing is that the 4400 were not randomly selected

The most recent episode gives a reason as to why they were all deposited near Seattle as well. If you think about it, it kind of explains why they would take mainly Americans, mainly English speakers as well. -- Chuq 03:18, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

So here's the thing, not only have specific detailsbeen dropped during the show's course about this, but in the very first episode there's allusion to the fact that the 4400 for the most part stayed inside of a specific 'disease cluster' in the seattle area. Add to that the promicin in the biological systems of the 4400 gives them a drive to be around one another as cited more than once by Maia, and that Ryland specificly said the NSA had been using Gary Navarro to locate some of the "few" who left north america and, the recent Starzl Mutation stuff, and well you've got almost all the explanation you need.

Also....go watch the first season again, I think you missed the point by... well a lot. Cleaning up the park wasn't the big deal, what happened afterwards is. The ripple effect is arguably the heart of the entire series.

Its an American series!? Of course its going to have an American angle to it. Just as all aliens invade Japan in a Japanese series or whatever the case may be. Besides if you want to change something in the future isn't America the most likely place to start? Everything this country does has global consequences. -- Pixarian 06:14, 07 February 2007 (UTC)

Don't forget that all the alien activity, on earth, happens in the UK, in the "Doctor Who" series. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 12.218.155.57 (talk) 05:27, 21 March 2007 (UTC).

[edit] creating a subpage for all characters.

The number of characters is filling this article pretty quickly. I think we need to create subpages for all of them. That way, we can expand on the infomation of those characters without bogging down this main article with the infomation. dposse 17:41, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] How to make links consistent?

Compare the capitalization, italicization, and punctuation of the titles of List of 'The 4400' Minor Characters and List of The 4400 episodes. How we make these consistent? -- Travisl 16:08, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

I don't think it really matters. It's fine the way it is. dposse 01:57, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

The episode list name is consistent with other episode lists. The minor characters list should really follow normal capitalization rules. I wouldn't go in this sentence and say the Minor Character list. But the thing that really, REALLY irks me is that there are quotes in it. It's not 'The 4400' or "The 4400"; it's The 4400. I'm really wanting to move it to List of The 4400 minor characters. – Pedantic79 ^(talk) 06:52, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Boldly done. -- Travisl 08:10, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Same is true of 'The 4400' Broadcasters. It should probably be List of The 4400 broadcasters. – Pedantic79 ^(talk) 18:23, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Episode List

Do we really need a list of the episodes on the The 4400 page and a seperate list on List of The 4400 episodes? We should really remove the episode list on the main article and just link to the episode list. – Pedantic79 ^(talk) 18:28, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

I agree. Go ahead and remove it. dposse 22:54, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Done -- Travisl 23:02, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Product Placement

I think something should be added about the extensive product placement in the second season. Like the whole scene in "As Fate Would Have It" written just to advertise the Sony PSP (Jordan gives one to Maya, waving it past the camera as he hands it over), the extended advertising of Budweiser in "Rebirth" (again a whole scene written just to promote it), and the other slightly more subtle placements like the iPod headphones in a couple of episodes ("Hidden", "Lockdown"), the plug for the band "The Kills" ("Hidden"), the DaimlerChrysler cars etc. These have been discussed on the internet. --Nfmccourt 19:07, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

I thought the PSP was advertised quite well for a product-placement, and I think it's only your opinion that entire scenes were created just to talk about these products. I'm going to put a nuetrality tag over that part. Product placement has just become a fact of entertainment, and unless you want to spend more time watching commericals you're just going to have to deal with it. The Radio Star 06:14, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] NPOV Issue?

I don't see any discussion here about a NPOV problem in the article, so I've removed the tag indicating as much. An objection on POV grounds should be raised here and discussed before designating the article as problematic. -- Padjet1 22:50, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Allusions to Judeo-Christian texts all removed

The following section of text was titled "Allusions to Judeo-Christian texts":

The name of the show itself might be an allusion to the belief held by Jehovah's Witnesses that only 144,000 people will be allowed into Heaven. This is also a reference to biblical scripture in Revelation chapter 7 verse 4. The 4400 people who disappear do so in a rapture like fashion. The show's content has subtle Christian undertones, although not in a way that one would take it to be proselytizing. The baby Isabelle, believed by some to be a Christlike figure and the future savior of mankind, has also committed acts more consistent with an Antichrist. In the same vein, Jordan Collier (note his initials JC), whose intentions and methods are also grey, is killed by a sniper, and after his funeral, his body miraculously disappears. The disappearance is eerily (though not subtly) a reference to the Gospel account of Jesus' resurrection: the empty tomb (coffin) is discovered by a female disciple, who believes that "They have taken him"; in run two male disciples to observe the empty tomb. He is then reborn (albeit in a currently unknown fashion). One possibility, shown in "Gone, Part II," could be that he was taken back to the future right after his death (or before he was completely dead), healed by the future, then put back into the timeline at the end of the second season. However, this does not negate the possibility of him being a Christlike figure, for Satan told Jesus that if he were to fall his angels would come to save him. In this analogy, the angels are the people from the future.

In the second seasons episodes there is another subtle hint towards at least three of the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse. Trent Applebaum appears as Famine in episode nine, ‘Weight of the world’, where his bodily fluids increase the metabolism of anyone who ingests it in such a rate that they would eventually starve to death; no matter how much they eat.

Jean DeLynn Baker appears as Pestilence in episode 13 ‘Carrier’, where blisters form on her hands when she gets agitated; whenever they burst everyone in range dies immediately.

Lastly, T.J. Kim can be seen as War in episode 16 ‘Lockdown’ where she causes a sound that enrages all men that hear it, resulting in (deadly) fights.

This appears to be original research; at the very least the claims here should be sourced. I have moved the section here until that is done. --82.18.13.80 17:08, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

The author is drawing comparisons with little room for opinion between the article's source material and another. I don't think that violates original research rules as all the citation necessary is in the text itself, I think this as well as the scientology sections should be replaced, personally. If someone wrote "there has been much speculation that jordan collier may be modeled after christ on internet messageboards" it wouldn't be removed for this reason; so why delete an extended, interesting, clarified version of the same statement? CodyM 12:04, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

I have no objection to restoring this and the Scientology sections. I found the comparisons to be fascinating. Travisl 15:28, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

I have no objections either. MatthewFenton (talk • contribs) 15:58, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Guys, it's not whether or not you object, it's whether you can provide sources for the information or not. --TorriTorri 22:00, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

It's all cited inside the text. CodyM 07:33, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Allusions to Scientology all removed

The following section of text was titled "Allusions to Scientology":

The 4400 Center run by Jordan Collier seems intended to resemble the real-world Church of Scientology. The 4400 Center promises supernatural abilities to those who follow its training through for-pay courses, much as the Church of Scientology promises. At least one 4400 Center attendee has had his psychological medication confiscated, much as the Church of Scientology is opposed to psychology and its medications. The 4400 Center includes technological devices strapped onto its members during courses, similar to Scientology's E-Meters. The 4400 Center targets celebrities for inclusion and promotes them through the program faster than non-celebrity members; the Church of Scientology draws celebrities with its "Celebrity Centers". One former member of the 4400 Center accused it of making him take endless for-pay classes until he was bankrupted, at which point he was ejected from the program; Scientology has had similar accusations pointed at it. Also, similar to Scientology's Thetan levels, the 4400 Center has different Key levels to achieve.

Like "Allusions to Judeo-Christian texts", this appears to be original research; at the very least the claims here should be sourced. I have moved the section here until that is done. --82.18.13.80 17:13, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Product Placement Removed

__________ The second season of The 4400 was partly financed by extensive product placement by a number of different companies. This has drawn controversy, and the scenes in particular have been reported in the media and ridiculed on the internet due to their unusual blatency. The episode "As Fate Would Have It" contains a scene written to advertise the Sony PSP in which Jordan visits Maya and gives her one as a gift, holding it prominently in front of the camera as he hands it over.^[1] The white headphones and a brief shot of the Sony PSP can also be seen in "Hidden" worn by Kyle when his father Tom finally locates him near the end. Additionally, the Sony PSP can again be seen during the season 2 premier "Wake-Up Call", after Shawn heals the leukemia patient, while Jordan Collier is speaking with the child's parents, Shawn is shown watching the boy play with one.

Similarly, in "Rebirth", there is an entire scene written to advertise Budweiser. Richard and a group of fellow Korean War veterans are in a bar, mourning the death of a friend from whose funeral they have just returned. Richard tells a brief anecdote which ends with the departed character buying several crates of Budweiser; he then holds up a can directly to camera and says "Look at this can, it looks just like it did back in the day". The camera then pulls back to reveal the whole bar decked out in Budweiser posters, and multiple cans of Budweiser on the table, as the scene continues.^[2]

There are also a number of more subtle placements, such as characters prominently wearing the trademark white iPod headphones (TJ Kim in "Lockdown"), and the brief promotion of the band The Kills in "Hidden". Also, vehicles from DaimlerChrysler's Chrysler Group, such as the Dodge Durango and Chrysler 300, appear frequently in the show being driven by members of NTAC.

_________

Since the Allusions to Judeo-Christian and Scienology have been removed per the Original Research rule, I'm removing Product Placement on the same grounds, plus it's also trivial and not written in a nuetral tone. The Radio Star 08:40, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Formating is all messed up because Wikipedia is one of the slowest sites on the Internet. The Radio Star 08:41, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Slowest? You're kidding, right? dposse 05:24, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Agent Marco

Marco's page at [3] has a video; the dialog over the video states, in part, "There are other agents there, who do a lot of the footwork and get in the spotlight, but he's the guy they turn to to process all the data." This strongly, strongly implies to me that he's considered an NTAC agent as well. Travisl 16:13, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

That video does seem to imply that he is an agent, may as well leave it on the page unless its confirmed he isnt an agent. Matthew Fenton (Talk | Contribs) 16:19, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Shawn Farrell

He's a fairly major character, at least as much as Maya. I made the categorised redirect for him ages ago, but someone should expand it into a character profile :). ~Zythe^{Talk to me!} 19:32, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Yea im slowly doing all the articles, will be done tonight or morning. MatthewFenton (talk • contribs) 19:34, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Number of episodes

If Gone 1 and Gone 2 are different production numbers, then yes, I'll concede that they're different episodes (which means we shouldn't refer to them as a "two part episode"). Do we know if both halves of New World had different production numbers, in spite of the fact that they were broadcast as one two-hour episode? Travisl 21:12, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Okay there produced as two parts (301, 302 respectivley) but edited as one. For Gone there the same story but each part writen seperatley and both produced seperatley (hence two #s) MatthewFenton (talk • contribs) 21:16, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks; it makes a lot more sense to me now. I also checked around a bit, and if Jacqueline McKenzie says it's 13 episodes, then who am I to say otherwise? I'll make the update to the main page. Travisl 22:08, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The ripple effect

Is there a specific name for that kind of effect, where a person goes back in time to change an event that's (technically) already happened in one timeline? dposse 18:25, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

Dont know, a paradox? thanks/Fenton, Matthew Lexic Dark 52278 Alpha 771 18:29, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

Grandfather paradox is one such example. See also, Chronology protection conjecture and Novikov self-consistency principle Travisl 15:42, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Waterboarding controversy

Thought some of you might find the blog post [4] interesting. It's suggests that people watch a clip from the show where someone suffers "waterboarding" and decide whether they think it's torture or not. There's a follow up on the same blog here [5].

[edit] 1946

According to the article, the 4400 were taken since 1946. I understand that Maia was taken in 1946, but couldn't there have been other people who were taken earlier? --TorriTorri^{Talk to me!} 03:53, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Maia's profile states she was the "first of the known abductees." -Shannernanner 07:17, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

All abductees are known. All their information was cataloged when the 4400 were returned, while they were in quarantine, and we were told that Miai was indeed the earliest abductee. Funkadillo 14:51, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Hypothetically (this is original research so strictly for the talk page), how do we know there weren't more than 4400 abductees, and some of them has the ability to become invisible and wandered away (or teleportation, and teleported away, or any number of similar abilities) as soon as he/she was returned? -- Chuq 03:41, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Year is 2006, 4400 abducted over 60 years. 2006 - 60 = 1946 . thanks/Fenton, Matthew Lexic Dark 52278 Alpha 771 19:15, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] episodes up for deletion

All 4400 episodes (season 1, 2 and 3) have been put up for deletion at AfD (Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The New and Improved Carl Morrissey (The 4400 episode)) thanks/Fenton, Matthew Lexic Dark 52278 Alpha 771 14:56, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

The result was keep. Travisl 19:34, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] CFD notice for Category:The 4400

Note: Please direct all comments on this category to the discussion page above, so they can appear in one place for all interested editors. Thanks. Dugwiki 21:14, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

The result of the debate was keep. Travisl 19:33, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Cleanup tag

The verb tenses are in conflict. Only read the first paragraph, but it needs major cleanup in this way. Either present or past tense, but not both please. Anchoress 22:49, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Whata re you on about :\? MatthewFenton (talk • contribs) 22:51, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The 4400 Wiki

This is an announcement to let everyone know that the http://www.the4400wiki.org/ has been greatly improved over the last couple of months, but still needs editors and viewers. --172.168.17.22 23:28, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] CFD notice

The result of the debate was rename to Category:The 4400 cast. Travisl 17:44, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] CfD

Category:The 4400 cast has been sent to CfD: Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_January_25#Actors_by_series thanks/Fenton, Matthew Lexic Dark 52278 Alpha 771 13:16, 26 January 2007 (UTC)