Talk:Terence Francis MacCarthy

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In a posting on the newsgroup rec.heraldry Sean Murphy admits that he wrote the parts of this article (since deleted) that praised his own work. The rec.heraldry posting can be seen at [1]. Outside Observer, 2 June 2005.

Contents 1 Terence Francis MacCarthy 2 MacCarthy or McCarthy? 3 Mac! 4 Mac Carthy Mór or THE MacCarthy Mór?

[edit] Terence Francis MacCarthy

No, Sean Murphy did not admit that he rewrote sections of this article mentioning his own work: he asserted it. I am glad that the links to my webpages have not been deleted, and hope they remain in the spirit of the wiki-advice to quote sources. - Sean Murphy

[edit] MacCarthy or McCarthy?

I had originally used McCarthy rather than MacCarthy due to the following reference:

"Terence Francis (Tadhg) McCarthy, The MacCarthy Mór, Prince of Desmond and Lord of Kerslawny (b. 1957), succeeded to the Chiefship of his Name and . . ." (The MacCarthys of Munster: The Story of a Great Irish Sept by Samuel Trant McCarthy (1922). A facsimile edition with an introduction by The MacCarthy Mór, Prince of Desmond [i.e. Terence Francis himself]. Little Rock: Gryfons, 1997. p. 523.)

Did he legally change his name after this was published? --Eoghanacht 11:53, 2005 Jun 6 (UTC)

[edit] Mac!

Having read almost everything he published, it is my understanding that Terence spelled and spells his surname 'MacCarthy'. The 'McCarthy' reference you quote above is correct, but is clearly a slip, as if you look at the preceding entry for his father, the spelling 'MacCarthy' is used (facsimile edition of MacCarthys of Munster, page 523). But what should settle matters is that in the Casale Monferrato court case of 1997-98 the 'Mac' form was employed: 'Terence Francis MacCarthy, The MacCarthy Mór' etc (New Book of Rights, page 63). Incidentally, if it is agreed that the spelling should be 'MacCarthy', how do you revise the heading of the article? - Sean Murphy, 7 June 2005.

Title changed. --Eoghanacht 18:54, 2005 Jun 7 (UTC)

[edit] Mac Carthy Mór or THE MacCarthy Mór?

I am raising an esoteric (and not very important) grammatical question to which I don’t know the answer. Isn’t it inappropriate to precede a phrase like “Mac Carthy Mór “ or “O’Conor Don” with the direct article “the” according to the preferred grammatical style used these days to discuss chiefs of the name? I know that it’s tempting to insert “the” as it seems to resonate the style used when referring to a chief of the name as (to use a fake example) “The Jones.” Also, in English, saying that (for example) “the Great Jones is late for dinner” sounds more natural than saying “Great Jones is late for dinner” and thus we have a tendency to throw a “the” before Mac Carthy Mór , O’Conor Don and similar titles. Does the direct article precede these titles in the Irish language? And if not, how appropriate is it to follow that lead even though it is counter intuitive for English speakers? Thanks. - J. Dwyer, Boston, Massachusetts, USA. HouseOfScandal 19:05, 16 October 2006 (UTC)