User talk:TenOfAllTrades/Aloha Dupe

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Wow, that Tim Ryan sure is something according to your research. --LV ^{(Dark Mark)} 14:51, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

Credit goes to Dragons flight and Calton for the last three; I only noticed the similarities in the first (Aloha Airlines) article. If the other articles turn out to be plagiarism as well–and not just copying a common press release, or some such sloppiness–I'll feel much less troubled about this guy getting in hot water. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 19:29, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

In the fourth, he appears to lift material from the NPR story and pass them off as quotes from a personal interview he conducted. That would seem particularly wrong, and hard to explain. Dragons flight 19:52, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

Yeah, that one really looked really ugly to me, too. Unless he was the one who did the NPR piece...? TenOfAllTrades(talk) 20:55, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

The NPR story says it was Steve Inskeep who interviewed Haimovitz, although someone else may have written the blurb on their page. --Michael Snow 22:09, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

The cellist thing I could understand, actually, since I suspect any phone interview Ryan conducted with Haimovitz would be a) very brief, because it's just for a short promo article that neither would want to spend a great deal of time on, and b) full of canned reponses by Haimovitz, as it looks like Haimovitz only has one distinctive hook worth writing about in an article (the rock club performances) and doubtless he offers up the same anecdotes to the same questions -- or maybe he gives the same anecdotes regardless of the questions. Meaning Ryan would be covering the same ground as Inskeep the NPR guy, and being stuck with having to use the few quotes, near-identical to all reporters Haimovitz talks to. --Calton | Talk 01:23, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

The problem I see with that is that the NPR text is not set off as direct quotes, which gives the impression that those descriptions and style of presentation are attributed to the NPR author rather than the performer himself. Dragons flight 01:34, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

No, since most of the "NPR text" are direct quotes from Haimovitz himself (in the radio news biz, the quoted bits of an interviewee dropped into a story are known as "actualities", don't ask me why), it's entirely possible that they're the rote answers Haimovitz gives to journalists. Of course, the only one who can say for sure is Matt Haimovitz himself: did he talk to Ryan, and what did he say? --Calton | Talk 03:43, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

So next step? This gives contact info for the newspaper.

I would suggest sending an email discussing the situation to at least (Chief) Editor Frank Bridgewater(fbridgewater@starbulletin.com) and Features Editor Betty Shimabukuro (bshimabukuro@starbulletin.com) with a cc to Tim Ryan himself (tryan@starbulletin.com). We might also include President and Publisher Dennis Francis (dfrancis@starbulletin.com) who seems to highest ranking person at the newspaper, depending on how serious we want to make this at the start. I don't think we should go outside the newspaper until they have had a chance to respond.

I've emailed the editors and Ryan; I think the editors can decide whether they want to involve the publisher. --Michael Snow 22:09, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

Okay, keep us updated on what response you get. Dragons flight 01:22, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

I will, but with the weekend and the holiday, it may be a few days before they figure out what they're going to do. --Michael Snow 05:03, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

I'll be out of town for two or three days; keep us posted here. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 15:12, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

Anything yet? --Jeffrey O. Gustafson - Shazaam! - <*> 08:05, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Updates

Looks like the Star-Bulletin put up a Correction on the Aloha Flight 243 story:

Saturday, December 24, 2005

A portion of a review of the television show "Secrets of the Black Box: Aloha Flight 243" was taken verbatim from the Web site reference.com. The material was originally published in the online encyclopedia wikipedia.com. The article, on Page D6 Thursday, failed to attribute the information to either source.

Looks good. Since they mention reference.com first, I assume they've talked to Ryan and he told them where he got the text. Nothing about the other three articles, but at this point, since Wikipedia's direct concerns have been satisfied, how the Star-Bulletin handles the rest is their business, not ours. --Calton | Talk 01:44, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

Yep, that pretty much discharges their obligation to Wikipedia. Still, I'd like to know that any other writers received any credit they may have been due. A very cursory seach found another set of duplicated passages in an article on Jack Lord. A word to the wise—don't reuse easily Googled phrases like 'tousled pompadour'. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 03:38, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

There are now editor's notes at the beginning of the Toyota Highlander hybrid SUV review, and the Matt Haimovitz "interview" as well. --Michael Snow 01:00, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

In case anyone is still following this, someone at the Hawaii Reporter has picked up the story and found a couple more instances. --Michael Snow 21:42, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

"Tony", you're famous now! --Calton | Talk 23:50, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

Right, I have no idea where that came from. If they're confusing me with Tony Snow, I don't know if I should be flattered or insulted. --Michael Snow 00:31, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

Well don't worry Tony, on the plus side you are now working for a popular news site. Dragons flight 00:55, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

Tim Ryan has been fired. KeithH 18:08, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

Wow, little people like us can make a difference. Although I feel a little bad about the dude losing his job. And something like this isn't quite simple to get over. Shoulda played by the rules, I suppose. Let this be a lesson to all local reporters. --LV ^{(Dark Mark)} 06:36, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

Just a note, but Romenesko, a well-known North American mediawatcher's site has linked this page (well, User:TenOfAllTrades/Aloha Dupe) directly on their site. See their item here.

And agree about feeling bad: twenty years at the paper down the tubes, for stuff he should have known better about. --Calton | Talk 14:12, 15 January 2006 (UTC)