Talk:Tension myositis syndrome

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Contents 1 Fibromyalgia? 2 Scientific? 3 Neutral Point of View? 4 Flagged for POV-check & sources

[edit] Fibromyalgia?

The article describes the need for an examination to exclude other causes and "can identify symptoms that are typical of TMS, such as certain tender points that become painful when pressed." Is this not part of the diagnostic criteria for fibromyalgia (see Fibromyalgia#Diagnosis: 11 of 18 possible tender points need to be painful) ? Or to rephrase the question how does this syndrome differ from fibromyalgia - is it just that this syndrome covers just what is conventionally termed back pain ? David Ruben ^Talk 10:29, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Dr. Sarno includes Fibromyalgia in his definition of TMS, and has cured many cases of Fibromyalgia. See his new book, The divided Mind: The Epidemic of Mindbody Disorders, or his previous book, The Mindbody Prescription: Healing the Body, Healing the Pain, for his discussions of Fibromyalgia as an extreme form of TMS.

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.160.102.26 (talk • contribs). 1 June 2006

In which case, is there an case for merging this topic into fibromyalgia as an alternative viewpoint (with then TMS page redirecting to that article) ? David Ruben ^Talk 00:03, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

I don't believe so, as from Dr. Sarno's point of view, Fibromyalgia is a subset of TMS, that is, an extreme form of TMS, but requiring the same treatment methods.--Ralphyde 20:26, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

Hmmm.. Ok, so would it be worth adding this clarification then to this article to help readers understand where his views fit in the spectrum of back pain to fibriomyalgia ? David Ruben ^Talk 01:08, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Scientific?

Looks to me like TMS has no basis in science. Would be happy to be shown I'm wrong. Mccready 10:53, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

perhaps this can be worded as establishing a history of empirical evidence?Nastajus 23:46, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

I suggest you read Dr. Sarno's new book, The Divided Mind: The Epidemic of Mindbody Disorders, in which he includes a history of psychosomatic medicine, as well as his own history of highly successful clinical treatment of TMS for over thirty years at the Howard A Rusk Institute of Clinical Rehabilitation Medicine at the New York University Medical Center. He is also a Professor of Clinical Rehabilitation Medicine at New York University Medical School. For you to say arbitrarily that his diagnosis of TMS has no basis in science is absurd and POV. From your history of posts on other topics, you are obviously a POV warrior.

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.160.102.26 (talk • contribs). 1 June 2006

[edit] Neutral Point of View?

The first paragraph makes the following claims with no citation. "He has successfully cured tens of thousands of patients at the Howard A. Rusk Institute of Rehabilitation Medicine, New York University Medical Center, and hundreds of thousands more through his books during his long career. At age 83, he is still seeing and curing patients at the Rusk Institute." Other than a bit at the very end, there seems to be little to suggest there is another point of view. Not sure exactly how I would fix this; but put the POV tempate at the top of the page so that others who stumbled across it would not assume they could take the article at face value. Davedrh 03:58, 14 June 2006 (UTC) (Also, upon reviewing it I see there is also a claim for a "high rate of success" with no cite.) Davedrh 04:00, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Everything in the statements are true, and are well known by anyone familiar with Dr. Sarno and his pioneering work over the past thirty years. But I have modified the claims you objected to and provided a citation. I have read seven books on TMS over the past two years, three by Dr. Sarno, and have been studying this condition intensively. Dr. Sarno estimates a 90% cure rate with his patients in the article cited.

I suggest you read his latest book, The Divided Mind: The Epidemic of Mindbody Disorders, if you want his most recent formulations, including those on Fibromyalgia and other TMS equivalents, as well as the chapters by six other doctors who have adopted his theories and put them into practice with great success.Ralphyde 07:30, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

I don't think that the good Dr's estimation that 90% of the patients he sees is necessarily the best evidence for the efficacy of his treatment - even the worst quacks think that they have a good success rate. Gil-Galad

I agree, this article needs much work. I've already discussed this a bit at Talk:John E. Sarno because I marked it as POV which was taken down after a slight change. It needs valid sources. Two commercial alternative-health websites aren't acceptable. Dr. Sarno's books aren't a neutral source and the chapters mentioned by Ralphyde above would be anecdotal. The way this article is written also isn't right. First of all, some paragraphs start with "Dr. Sarno claims" this or that which is acceptable, but then they slip into blank assertions of Dr. Sarno's claims, which isn't acceptable.

The claims of his sucess need to be deleted, qualified or backed up with neutral, valid citations. The explanatory sections need to be rewritten to make clear that they are describing his claims, or changed to include verified information with solid sources. There should be information on what if any studies have examined the validity of his claims or methods, and there should be sources relating to the controversy and criticisms as well.--Howdybob 05:38, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Flagged for POV-check & sources

I flagged this for POV-check because I have concerns as I discussed above but I don't have the info to rewrite it properly now. I also flagged it for sources because it needs more and the existing ones are dubious, also discussed above. I'm hoping for help with this article from other editors. --Howdybob 06:07, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

I think this article could use at least a citation or example of those arguments of people opposed to it. In the intro it states:

"Sarno's theories and management plan for back pain and other TMS equivalents are not widely accepted by the conventional medical community" But there is no example or quote in the text. perhaps a section "criticisms" or something like that would help. Trcrev 18:10, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Since this topic was arbitrarily flagged for POV back in July 2006, many citations have been added. I therefore removed the POV flag today. Ralphyde 05:02, 20 January 2007 (UTC)