Talk:Tenjiku shogi

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Hi JT,

The article said, "It can return to the square it started from after its first move, allowing the player to “skip” a turn. This cannot be done on two consecutive turns without a capture." Adams' booklet says,

Repetition is not allowed. If a move would yield a whole board position that has already occured in the game (with the same player to move), then that move is not allowed.

However, neither of these phrasings make sense. The first, because it's not possible to skip a turn twice in a row with a capture, and the latter because this would prohibit skipping a move at all.

I'm going to say that you can't make a move that would return the board to a previous position with the same player to move. This is not stated in any source that I know of, but is the closest I can get to making sense of this. Please correct if I'm wrong. kwami 08:47, 2005 September 6 (UTC)

I took it to mean "If skipping is allowed, it can’t be done on 2 consecutive turns." Ignore the “capture” part as I thought it to be the best (only) way not to repeat a board position. Steve Evans (who gets a lot of his rules from George Hodges) and C.P. Adams both say that skipping is posable. Adams says it is so your opponent cannot put you in Zugzwang, but does not say you have to be in zugzuang to make a skipping move. In Go, I belive zugzuang is called "seki", maybe it is seki in shogi as well. --JTTyler 23:39, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

I think I get it. It doesn't mean repetition of a move, it means repetition of a board position. If you skip, and then I skip, I return the board to you exactly as it was for your previous move. Therefore the 'no consecutive skips' is a subcategory of the 'no repeated board positions' rule. Like ko in Go. "Consecutive" mean both players, not consecutive turns for just one of the players. Does this sound right to you? How about this:

If a move would yield a whole board position that has already occured in the game, with the same player to move, then that move is not allowed. This is similar to the ko rule in Go. As a consequence, if one player skips a turn, the other player cannot skip a turn immediately after.

kwami 01:02, 25 September 2005 (UTC)

I agree with the “repetition of a board position” idea, however, I’m racking my brain trying to find another good reference for this, even in Japanese. Perhaps more to come later. --JTTyler 22:51, 25 September 2005 (UTC)

I never mentioned repeating a move - just the position.

It is just like ko in Go. You won't find any references to this rule - it's an interpretation. [Colin Adams]

[I just moved this paragraph down into its own.] Okay, the same position, with the same person to play - if you skip, you return the board as it was after your opponent moved, not as it was as he was about to move. But if he skips as well, then he's returning the board to you as it was before your last move, which is not allowed. So one player can skip as many times in a row as he likes, but his opponent is then obliged to move. kwami 06:48, 26 September 2005 (UTC)