Wikipedia talk:Templates for deletion

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Contents 1 Quick Question 2 August 12? 3 Template:Big Brother project 4 Template:OH Highways 5 August 21 6 Old discussion not closed 7 August 25 8 Housekeeping tasks 9 Informing the creators is being ignored 10 Create "Infobox:" namespace? 11 Unclosed discussion 12 Unused, outdated templates 13 Kudos 14 Useless But Funny Userbox Templates 15 Template:Tfd log 16 Closebox 16.1 Template:Whatever 16.2 Template:Whatever 17 Archiving 18 Give us a break 19 Requested move 19.1 Survey 19.1.1 Survey - Support votes 19.1.2 Survey - Oppose votes 19.2 Discussion 20 New CSD for Templates proposed 21 Changed wording to deletion criteria 22 Templates for discussion 23 Is this *generally* qualified for deletion? 24 Template:User_racism 25 Substed templates 26 Are pagenames urls navigating correctly 27 9/11 Templates 28 School district navigation templates 29 WP:PROD for templates? 30 Automatic log display 31 TfD using subpages like AfD? 32 Orpahning Templates 33 Temporary prod process 34 Changes to header 35 Question: cut and paste creation of subpages

[edit] Quick Question

User box pillage was deleted. There was no notice that I was aware of. Can I get the User Box code for it so I can put it back on my user page?

Template:User Pillage that was the Transclude for it.

Thanks Æon ^{Insane Ward} 20:35, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Posted to user talk. — sjorford++ 08:08, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] August 12?

August 11 and august 13 are there. No august 12. It's not on the project page for some reason but it exists on the sub page.--Tbeatty 09:20, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

That's because the pages all have to be manually updated each day. We really should get a bot to do this. -- Ned Scott 09:48, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Template:Big Brother project

Could we delete this template as it involves metadata or maybe request that they remove this metadata stuff as it really looks dumm in the top of the screen. Lincher 23:54, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Template:OH Highways

The template, Template:OH Highways, is no longer needed as it would have grown in size to the point where it would function best as a single-use template. It would have fit on the bottom of all state route pages listed here, but would have consumed a lot of space. A more approperiate link back to List of State Highways in Ohio works just as well. Seicer (talk) (contribs) 16:28, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] August 21

Where is August 21? Eixo 08:41, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Old discussion not closed

It looks like Template:Serbia and Montenegro topics should be deleted per Wikipedia:Templates_for_deletion/Log/2006_June_30#Template:Serbia_and_Montenegro_topics. (Yes, I see it's under closing in progress, but it's almost two months old now.) TimBentley (talk) 20:56, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] August 25

August 24 and 26 have been closed out, but no action has yet been taken for August 25:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Templates_for_deletion/Log/2006_August_25

[edit] Housekeeping tasks

It was mentioned somewhere above that it would be nice to have a bot to do some daily housekeeping on this page. Zorglbot is doing something similar for Wikipedia:Copyright problems, so it would be relatively easy for me to adapt it to work here. Would that be welcome ? Schutz 22:10, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

It would definitely be welcome. -- Ned Scott 03:44, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

So here is the first step: creating a new daily page; the result is here, any comment welcome. Schutz 20:23, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Please add the {{tfd log}} on the top as well. Hbdragon88 07:07, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

The template uses {{CURRENTMONTHNAME}} and {{CURRENTDAY}}, doesn't it mean that the dates in the headers will change every day ? Shouldn't we use a template with an argument, such as {{tfd log|September 6}} ? For now, the bot can just write the full header with the correct date, I'll try to have this in place for tomorrow's new page. Schutz 09:04, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

The template doesn't work, and because it uses some additionally complex templates inside of it.. there's no direct way to make that work. It would just reset itself every day. But they do need to include the nav links (most of the recent ones are missing this, actually). -- Ned Scott 09:37, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

Ok, improved version for tomorrow is here; again, all comments welcome. Schutz 22:21, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

Awesome. Can it also adjust the links on the main page when the dates shift? -- Ned Scott 23:44, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

It will, as it currently does on Wikipedia:Copyright problems, but I have not had time to get around it yet. Schutz 06:57, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Very awesome. -- Ned Scott 07:08, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

I have the bot working (under User:Zorglbot), and I just tested it. However, I must apologize in advance: since I can not be in front of my terminal at 0:00 GMT, when the change is supposed to happen, I will run it manually a little bit earlier for the next few days, in order to make sure everything is going smoothly. This may produce some duplications of sections for a few hours, sorry about this. When everything is shown to work well, I will schedule it to run automatically at 0:00 GMT. Schutz 21:43, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

It seems to be working great! Good job, this will make things a lot easier :D -- Ned Scott 04:29, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Informing the creators is being ignored

This was crossposted and has little to do with the specific workings of this page. Please discuss at Wikipedia talk:Deletion policy#Informing the creators is being ignored. The comments have already been moved. Please do not spam such complaints across multiple pages. Rossami (talk) 19:18, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Create "Infobox:" namespace?

(also posted to WP:VPR)

Copying and pasting a proposal made at Bugzilla :

...Infoboxes seem to've become part of the Wikipedia furniture, at least in the English Wikipedia. Hence, rather than the many "Template:Infobox..." pages (with inconsistent capitaliz/sation etc), suggest an "Infobox:..." namespace created.

What do folk think...?  Thanks, David Kernow (talk) 12:44, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Totally agree. Infoboxes have become a major feature and many of them serve a very good purpose, but they, like all aspects of Wikipedia, should be presented consistently. I think that's really important - everything should carry the Wikipedia "brand" and in style and appearance should be part of a set, rather than a one-off. I think though, that it's difficult enough to reach consensus in discussing one infobox - I imagine discussing them as a group is going to be even more difficult, but worth aiming for. Rossrs 10:45, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your feedback!  I agree that consensus on a more standardiz/sed appearance may be impossible and perhaps not necessarily desirable, but introducing the Infobox: namespace as a means to produce greater consistency (and less "Template:Infobox" redundancy) seems an obvious improvement... Yours, David (talk) 13:31, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

I'd encourage anyone interested in infobox consistency to please comment at Wikipedia:Geographical infoboxes, a proposal to standardize the look and feel of a large class of templates by using a common CSS style. -- Rick Block (talk) 16:04, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

Pointer added to Wikipedia talk:Geographical infoboxes; thanks for your suggestion, Rick!  David (talk) 16:16, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

To clarify, the suggestion is to participate in the discussion at Wikipedia:Geographical infoboxes (although adding a link to this discussion certainly doesn't hurt). -- Rick Block (talk) 18:09, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Unclosed discussion

Wikipedia:Templates for deletion/Log/2006 August 16#Template:Saban American Tokusatsu. TimBentley (talk) 03:08, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Nothing at Wikipedia:Templates for deletion/Log/2006 August 25 was closed either. TimBentley (talk) 03:11, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Unused, outdated templates

The instructions on this page are unbearable. Another editor has inquired at Talk:Hugo Chávez about how to delete a number of outdated, old, unused templates s/he came across. The original editor is no longer involved with the articles, and is only sporadically active on Wiki. [1]. I don't know how to delete a template, and the instructions on this page make it sound like a lot of work to clear out something that's not in use. Here are the unused templates:

• Template:ChavezLinks
• Template:ChavezNotes
• Template:ChavezArticles
• Template:ChavezHonors
• Template:ChavezCategories
• Template:ChavezReferences

If anyone can make this easy, it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. Sandy 00:23, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Kudos

As a first time user of the TfD nominating process, I have to complement the editors of the page. The explanations, instructions, and process were very easy to follow. Good job.--G1076 17:35, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Useless But Funny Userbox Templates

Can we consolidate the votes for Earth, Mars, Wikipedian, etc, etc, etc onto one piece of discussion? They all do the same thing, excpet it's a lot more trouble when the argument is spread across many discussions. 75.33.140.40 01:58, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Template:Tfd log

User:Ned Scott noted that {{tfd log}} wasn't working, but I've fixed it using the relatively new {{#time}} parser function, so for whoever creates the new day's log pages, it's now available for you to use. howcheng {chat} 03:45, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Closebox

TfD's getting quite inconsistent about this now: should TfDs be closed like this:

or like this:

[edit] Template:Whatever

There's both in the TfD logs at the moment, and it would be nice if it were consistent. --ais523 09:42, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

I always do the second one, as it keeps the closing wikitext in the same section as the debate, whereas using the first, {{tfd top}} appears in the previous section, overly confusing the process. Martinp23 12:52, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

The second one is how it's always been. —Pilotguy (push to talk) 17:48, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Archiving

Why is Dec 12 moved to old discussions when those nominations haven't been closed ? Why was the admin backlog tag removed ? Sandy (Talk) 13:16, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

The "old" section if for thiose that need closing, hence the bot moved them there after their time on the page was up - in your revert, you also removed today's page! I've rollbacked you - if there is no {{adminbacklog}}, feel free to re-add it. Martinp23 14:20, 20 December 2006 (UTC) PS - I'll have some time to clear the backlog in a few hours

Thanks, Martin - sorry for creating extra work - I wasn't sure what to do. Sandy (Talk) 14:23, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Nah - it wasn't any extra work :) Just one click. I've managed to clear the backlog fully now. Martinp23 19:04, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Give us a break

Can we get some kind of link, head or index to be able to find past Tfd's at the head end of this page please? Expand that request to encompass all xFD pages where necessary.

A {{succession}} template connection between all such (And in the WP:AN, WP:AN/I etc too! All archives really, to skate one to the next chronologically.) would also be a nice (and sensible and useful) thing too. Thanks // FrankB 00:15, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

Good idea. For that matter, why don't we have a generalized XfD system, with minor modifications depending on purpose? Right now, our deletion processes look like a piecing together of things depending on the time they got split off from Votes for deletion. -Amarkov ^blah_edits 00:18, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Requested move

[edit] New CSD for Templates proposed

I proposed a new CSD for templates, for duplicate or unused templates. If you have any thoughts on the subject, please add your feedback there. -- Renesis (talk) 00:43, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Right now, those two criteria are #2 and #3, respectively, for the TfD − Twas Now 13:33, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Changed wording to deletion criteria

Currently, the criteria for TfD are

Proposal of a template for deletion may be appropriate whenever:
1. The template is not helpful or noteworthy (encyclopaedic);
2. The template is redundant to another better-designed template;
3. The template is not used (note that this cannot be concluded from the absence of backlinks, it may be used with "subst:");
4. The template isn't a Neutral Point of View (NPOV) (editors must demonstrate that the template cannot be modified to satisfy this requirement);
5. The template does not clearly satisfy a criterion for speedy deletion.

I know that this implicitly means, "if any of the first four criteria apply and the last one applies, then speedy delete should be chosen". However, it is also only one criterion must be true for the template to be nominated, not all of them.

Thus, in a strictly legal sense, any template that is not divisive and inflammatory (the only CSD for templates) is fair game for tagging for deletion! No competent editor would delete such a template, but a vandal may abuse this clause, create a huge backlog in the TfD, and feign legitimacy by pointing to that clause.

For the above stated reasons, I have changed the wording to the criteria for TfD:

If the template clearly satisfies a criterion for speedy deletion, tag it with a {{db|reason}} and ask an admin to delete it − these do not require consensus.
Otherwise, proposal of a template for deletion may be appropriate whenever:
1. The template is not helpful or noteworthy (encyclopaedic);
2. The template is redundant to another better-designed template;
3. The template is not used (note that this cannot be concluded from the absence of backlinks, it may  be used with "subst:");
4. The template isn't a Neutral Point of View (NPOV) (editors must demonstrate that the template cannot be modified to satisfy this requirement);

Note: I'm not sure vandals even do this sort of thing. If so, I acknowledge that this won't stop vandalism of this type, but it will get rid of any plead of legitimacy.

Twas Now 13:30, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Well the problem probably has potential to occur (WP:BEANS), caused by disruptive editors/trolls. The easy way to avoid problems is to use speedy closures when a Wikilawyering nomination taking advantage of those error takes place. However, on the overhand, I don't think that and TfDs have beeen remvoed for not complying directly with the criteria, and many which have been deleted don't comply with the "rules" there. Martinp23 13:43, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

We have WP:IAR for a reason. Still, may as well correct the rules when we find a loophole in them (even though WP:POINT forbids exploiting it). If a TfD is filed which doesn't satisfy any of the deletion reasons, that's a reason to close as 'keep', not to delist. --ais523 09:18, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Templates for discussion

Is there any page for the discussion of templates e.g. moves, renames etc? Simply south 14:48, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Usually that is done on the talk page of the template. If no one responds, you can either just go ahead, or look for input in other places. A lot of people do watch templates though, so people will usually respond. - cohesion 17:03, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Is this *generally* qualified for deletion?

Please take a look at this simple case, a stylesheet template with code that is effectively only a one-liner after shrinking, no computation, no summary or formatting, functionally self-contained, used by around 100 pages, mostly user pages. The only usefulness of this template is a readable-name that ease coding a bit, otherwise it's quite pointless.

• Is this good candidate for deletion?
• If kept, will it cost much resources?
• If deleted, how to substitute/expand existing template references on other pages?

Thanks for advising, Godric/^Talk 01:59, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

It is quite a small template, and I think it takes up hardly any resources. It is a much simpler way for technically inexperienced users to put round corners into their user pages, instead of having to type the code:

-moz-border-radius-topleft: 1em; -moz-border-radius-topright: 1em; -moz-border-radius-bottomleft: 1em; -moz-border-radius-bottomright: 1em;

I would recommend keeping this template. − Twas Now 06:08, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

{{tl}} is even simpler, and yet it's one of the most highly used templates on Wikipedia. Generally speaking, even simple templates are useful if they help people to read the wikicode. --ais523 09:15, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the responses. Hmm... I don't consider {{tl}} is simpler than {{Round_corners}}, despite that it's shorter, since at least tl takes argument and Round_corners is only a static copy of stylesheet attributes, and in fact it can be shortened to "-moz-border-radius: 1em". Also, it can be parameterized to take the degree of "Roundness" too. This aside, I DO agree on the benefits of readability and code-abstraction-&-reuse outweighing the resources that it might have consumed, and especially in this case tiny. Godric/^Talk 16:59, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Do other browsers (besides those related to Mozilla), such as IE7, have similar code that can help them to round corners, too?   — Jeff G. (talk|contribs) 04:53, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Template:User_racism

Someone just created {{User racism}}. Should this be moved to a user space, or put for discussion? -- ReyBrujo 01:06, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Delete as T1? Titoxd^(?!?) 01:45, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Substed templates

The instructions say to include {{tfd|TemplateName}}. What about templates that are supposed to be substed at the time of their use, such as {{NoMoreLinks}} (currently under TfD discussion)? The TfD warning will be left as permanent feature in the substed code, each time where the template is used. I understand the TfD warning should be visible (at least in transcluded templates), so simply suggesting to encase it in <noinclude> like I did at NoMoreLinks wouldn't work as a standard solution. Could someone please work this out and expand the instructions accordingly? Femto 19:22, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Are pagenames urls navigating correctly

Hi! This (I think from the Template notice):

1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Templates_for_deletion/Log/2007_January_15#.5B.5BTemplate:Interwikitmp-grp.5D.5D doesn't seem to be able to find the section, as one would expect.
2. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Templates_for_deletion/Log/2007_January_15#Template:Interwikitmp-grp, but this form built when clicking on the TOC, does.
   
   Suggest someone with better thumb-fingered template skills than I possess adjust which ever templates necessary to reconcile the two experiences. Think I've seen the same kind of navigation error on CFD's too... which may implicate other Xfd links. Regards // FrankB 17:05, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] 9/11 Templates

When will anything happen with the 9/11 templates? They are in constant flux as far as their actual content -- therefore can hardly be considered 'templates' - and are being used a tool for everyone's battles on the 9/11 pages. They've been up for deletion for awhile now -- when is a decision going to made? bov 19:34, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

The decision has been made to keep both for the moment. Unfortunately, due to your (and two other editors) repeated edits against concensus, the templates are not stable. — Arthur Rubin | (talk) 18:27, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

That's right, because Arthur Rubin's edits are supported by all (except three other editors), and the views of all others are only "against consensus." bov 23:53, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] School district navigation templates

What is the opinion here about templates like Template:South San Francisco Unified School District? Based on the current trends in WP:AFD, only the high schools are likely to viewed as being notable enough to merit articles. So the presence of this template would appear to lead editors who are not aware of the notability requirements for schools into creating an article that will likely be deleted. Vegaswikian 08:55, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

Navboxes with that many redlinks are normally good TfD candidates unless there is some other reason why they might be worth keeping, and I can't think of one in this case. --ais523 09:07, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] WP:PROD for templates?

See Wikipedia_talk:Proposed_deletion#Prod_for_templates_idea. Mike Peel 17:12, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Automatic log display

Hi,
Would the idea at Wikipedia:Images and media for deletion be borrowed here for the backlog? Consider the code:

<!-- DO NOT REMOVE THIS SECTION -- these are the listings from the last 7 days, put here automatically! -->
{{Wikipedia:Templates for deletion/Log/{{#time:Y F j}}}}
{{Wikipedia:Templates for deletion/Log/{{#time:Y F j|-1 day}}}}
{{Wikipedia:Templates for deletion/Log/{{#time:Y F j|-2 days}}}}
{{Wikipedia:Templates for deletion/Log/{{#time:Y F j|-3 days}}}}
{{Wikipedia:Templates for deletion/Log/{{#time:Y F j|-4 days}}}}
{{Wikipedia:Templates for deletion/Log/{{#time:Y F j|-5 days}}}}
{{Wikipedia:Templates for deletion/Log/{{#time:Y F j|-6 days}}}}
<!-- END -->

I think this works, and means that manual updates of the backlog dates will no-longer be necessary. +mwtoews 01:48, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

• A bot adds the new day, and we only move the discussions after everything's been closed, so that won't work well. -Amark moo! 03:57, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] TfD using subpages like AfD?

I am curious why the format of TfD is different from AfD. I like how AfD uses subpages, so that you can watch only those threads you are participating in. As it is now, watching the whole day in TfD makes it hard to see when something relevant to your previous comments has been posted. This issue has come up before (Jan 2006), and seemed like there were quite a few on both sides of the discussion. I thought I would bring it up again and see what people think. Thanks. - grubber 17:35, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

• I'm not quite sure why it failed before. The issue seemed to be the templates not working well, but if you only have to link to a specific page, you can just copy the {{afd}} code that does so. -Amarkov moo! 18:15, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
  • I'm surprised that this thread is so idle. As a person just getting into AfD and TfD, it is frustrating to do TfD because you can't easily tell if the ones you have voted on have changed or not without reading through the entire list. Anyone have any objection to changing the process? - grubber 16:05, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

I would recommend posting this at Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals). Not very many people watch this talk page. Chick Bowen 22:47, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the suggestion, Chick Bowen. This suggestion has been posted Village pump (proposals) for further discussion. - grubber 17:32, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Orpahning Templates

My bot, ^demonBot2 is designed to help with template deprecation and orphaning. Would anyone mind my putting a note in the "needs to be orphaned" section mentioning that any template that has a significant number of replacements can be done automatically by my bot? ^demon^{[omg plz]} 17:55, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Seems fine, but make sure to note the things that the bot can't do, so people don't try to make it. -Amarkov moo! 18:02, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Gotcha, I'll go ahead and put it up there. ^demon^{[omg plz]} 18:07, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Temporary prod process

Would anyone have an objection to creating or using a process involving proposed deletions (such as with {{prod}}, or an alternate version for templates) on redundant infoboxes? Then someone (such as me) would check to make sure that there are no problems with the nomination. This does sound somewhat drastic, but I think it would help focus attention on more controversial areas. Gracenotes^T § 04:51, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I think that would be fine – though I'm not sure people will agree with you checking everything; while I personally trust your judgement with templates, I think it would be best to use the same "any administrator can delete after five days" rule as with prods. This would definitely make it easier to clear out all the old, unused, forgotten templates that are lying around (four of which I submitted to TfD yesterday) – Qxz 18:54, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

• One problem I see is with a template which is always subst'd. Nobody would notice the prod and the person nominating deletion would not know the template was unused. Also, I think a prod would need to have the notice be placed to be visible in all transclusions, just like is sometimes done in a regular TfD or otherwise interested parties would not notice. Perhaps there should also be a guideline that you shouldn't prod something transcluded over X times since that means it implicitly has supporters. —dgies^t_c 19:57, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

• • I was thinking more of other templates, such as redundant infoboxes or navigational templates, that are meant to be transcluded. This would not refer to functional templates, which are often meant to be substituted. Gracenotes^T § 17:23, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
    • I know, but if we are going to have template prod be a formal policy we need to define exactly when it can and cannot be used. —dgies^t_c 17:24, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
• I have made a draft policy at Wikipedia:Proposed deletion/Template prod. Discussion has been copied to Wikipedia talk:Proposed deletion/Template prod and I will advertise that at Wikipedia talk:Proposed deletion and Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals). Please continue any discussion at Wikipedia talk:Proposed deletion/Template prod. —dgies^t_c 17:51, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Changes to header

Note: I've made some changed to the TFD header here. I would appreciate if others reviewed them to make that they reflect consensus, etc. Gracenotes^T § 17:23, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Question: cut and paste creation of subpages

Just a question. Is it common to create subpages for deletion votes by cut and paste, without informing anyone who has participated that the page has been moved? This happened to Wikipedia:Templates_for_deletion/Log/2007_March_18#Template:Infobox_England_place, here, with the new location at Wikipedia:Templates for deletion/Log/2007 March 18/Template:Infobox England place. I don't know much about the processes for Wikipedia:Templates for deletion, but I ask because it seems contrary to the spirit of wikipedia as I know it elsewhere. Regards, Deacon of Pndapetzim (Talk) 01:36, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

It can be done if a vote is overwhelming the page. Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Maintenance explains the process for AfD, and the practice seems to have spilled over into TfD; however, unlike AfD and MfD, TfD doesn't have per-discussion subpages, so cut-and-paste has to be used (unfortunately for the effect on watchlists). The two possible alternatives, a history split from the TfD page or a move-and-move back from the per-day TfD page (to add it to people's watchlists) are both unacceptable, and I don't think informing everyone who's participated is usual, so what you've described would seem to be a reasonable state of affairs. How do you think it's contrary to the spirit of Wikipedia (after all, the discussion is linked from the main TfD page)? --ais523 14:12, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

It would be nice, IMO, if the process was always a subpage. Monitoring TfD entries that you vote in is considerably more difficult than monitoring an AfD because you can't watch only the relevant discussions. Every change to any TfD for that day triggers a reset in your watchlist. I suggested that we make the process uniform over all XfD, but I didn't get much response to the idea. I can't see any real disadvantage, and it would clear up the issue that Deacon is mentioning. - grubber 14:57, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

When you've got pages like Template:Pagemove and WP:SPLICE for articles on mainspace, I don't think it's hard to work out what spirit I'm referring to. In the case of the move I referred to, it was carried out by a user who had participated one way in the vote. There are two points of potential irregularity: 1) text and votes can be interfered with, and only a very experienced and willing editor would discover and 2) it enables the mover a potential advantage for their side of the discussion; as the mover has the power to inform who he/she pleases that the page has been moved, while hoping other select users don't notice the new page. Not saying either of these would happen, but the potential is there. That aside, it's highly irregular for a page history - esp. on something important like a vote - should be split in two like that. grubber is totally correct. There's no reason why Wikipedia:Templates for deletion cannot follow the same process which, for instance, WP:FAC follows. Regards, Deacon of Pndapetzim (Talk) 15:08, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

I see the problem you're referring to. I think there've been proposals to change TfD to use a MfD-like format before (using subpages but not as heavyweight as AfD), but I don't think they got anywhere. --ais523 16:59, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Hey Deacon, I don't think that what I did was a cut-and-paste move, per se... not one that would need history merging, at least. My objective was to get content on a subpage, to emphasize the idea of a central discussion, and also to make the TFD page a bit shorter. I couldn't move the log page, because that had other votes on it. So I put it on a subpage of the log page, and all page history is kept on the log page itself. Nothing is lost, all is GFDL-compliant, and the people rejoice. Sort of. Anyway, I provided a link to the discussion on the main TFD page... this was crucial. If I didn't, then you would have reason to not assume good faith. I also tried to perform the moving of content earlier in the debate, when I saw that it would grow larger. Gracenotes^T § 17:11, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Speaking of GFDL compliance, I used "move to subpage" as an edit summary, which definitely means that history can be found on the parent page. However, relisting should probably have "relisting from TFD log for Frumpruary 41, 2017" as an edit summary. Gracenotes^T § 22:19, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

In response to Firefox repeatedly truncating text areas, I edited Template:Tfd log. Now editors do not need to click "edit this page" at the top of the page which was, at least for me, regularly truncating the bottom-most discussion. Instead, click the edit section link on the H4 header titled "NEW NOMINATIONS". Commented out instructions are just below that header. Template:Tfd2 is also an H4 header, so when the next user clicks the edit section link for "NEW NOMINATIONS", he or she will only be editing a new blank (with commented out stuff) section. --Iamunknown 21:47, 8 April 2007 (UTC)