Wikipedia:Templates for deletion/Log/2007 March 30

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Contents 1 March 30 1.1 Template:PD-NYGov-OAG 1.2 Template:StateGov-NY 1.3 Record chart templates 1.4 Template:Aegean Sea 1.5 Template:Internationalization templates (artificats from Commons) 1.6 Template:Gang of 14 1.7 Template:Police by country

[edit] March 30

[edit] Template:PD-NYGov-OAG

[edit] Template:StateGov-NY

[edit] Record chart templates

Template:Record charts 24 (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs)

Template:Record charts 72 (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs)

Template:Record charts (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs)

Wikipedia:Record charts states that chart trajectories should not be included in articles. — ShadowHalo (12:59/12:59/12:52), 30 March 2007 (UTC)

• Delete per guideline. There appears to be past consensus that trajectories are too trivial to be encyclopedic, though it may be disputed once again at Wikipedia talk:Record charts. Userfy if it is the creator's wish. –Pomte 15:10, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
• Comment I have combined these three nominations into one. Gracenotes^T § 20:07, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Template:Aegean Sea

[edit] Template:Internationalization templates (artificats from Commons)

[edit] Template:Gang of 14

Template:Gang of 14 (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs)

This is just one of many temporary alliances that each of these senators have been involved with and will be in the future. The template was useful while it was a hot topic, but that time has passed and it is no longer defining of their careers (at least enough to merit a template in articles. The article on the Gang of 14 and discussion in the articles of the senators shoucl suffice. — youngamerican (ahoy hoy) 01:37, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

• Delete. Navigation templates are for completely defining characteristics. No senator is completely defined by being in the gang of 14, so this is better suited to a category, at the very least. -Amarkov moo! 03:58, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

• Comment. Actually, there was, and it bit the dust, too, see here. youngamerican (ahoy hoy) 11:57, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

• Well then, no category either. -Amarkov moo! 23:14, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Template:Police by country

Template:Police by country (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs)

Superfluous with Police/Law enforcement by country categories which the articles this template points to are in. This does not help navigation. Further, presumably every country in the world has a police force, there is nothing unique here, and it would be overwhelming to list them all. — SchmuckyTheCat 00:35, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

• Weak keep - for two reasons: 1. Navigational templates are often redundant with categories. 2. Only police forces notable enough for an article would go here. Perhaps Template:Roman Emperors is overwhelming, but it gets the job done. 3. All or most of these could probably fit into one article about policing, if there weren't hard page size limits. Gracenotes^T § 01:00, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
• Delete. I agree it is unweldy to maintain a template which can potentially have over 150 entries, and it dosent help when some users attempt to use it as a political tool by promoting local police forces of non-independent areas.--Huaiwei 11:15, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
• Delete. There are plenty of this sort of template, broken up by continent/region. See the bottom of Policing in the United Kingdom for the European version that is already in use. So {{Police by country}} is already redundant. But is it really a good idea to use the topics by continent/region templates? Look how many red links there are:

These red links express the need for the articles to be created/redirected. Police/Law enforcement is a core topic of every country so ideally there should be an article on each. The Police article lists a bunch of countries as sections, which should be merged into specific articles and then eliminated. –Pomte 12:26, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

• Keep As pointed out, every country has police and policing is a major component of every nation-state that often says alot about that state, making comparisons a likely thing Wikipedia users researching this subject. The "Law enforcement by country" categories contain all related articles and subcategories for that country, making them unwieldy for this purpose, whereas the template pulls the overview articles together in one place. Eventually the country list in the Police article needs to go, and this template accomplishes the same thing in much less space. If there's an unecessary redundancy between this and the Europe template, it makes more sense to scrap the one narrowly confined to one continent (and filled with red links). Bobanny 05:29, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

• One continent is not narrowly defined; see dozens of precedents at Template talk:Europe topic in the case of Europe alone. Red links are not nice but they work under the premise that Wikipedia is timeless. Eventually/ideally, red becomes blue and Template:Police by country (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) becomes too huge and obsolete. I would support a conditional keep until/if that happens, but someone has to maintain Template:Police by country (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) to add a link every time an article is created, which is effort that is eliminated by the templates by continent. –Pomte 07:26, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Specifically regarding police articles, the number of articles is far greater for the UK, US, and a handful of others, and there's a real need for new articles from other parts of the globe. Many of the articles that do exist tend to be UK or US-centric for police topics that should be treated more universally. I agree with your logic, but think the "police by country" template would similarly encourage a more global representation, and could be subdivided somehow when the need arises. Also notice that there's one just for the UK listing specific police agencies - as long as we're not stacking a bunch of police templates in the same article, I don't see a problem and don't think we should try and anticipate problems that have yet to happen. I don't know where else this template is placed, but it could be useful on a number of other non-region specific articles besides just "police." Bobanny 08:36, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

• I don't see any other non-region specific articles that could use this template (judging from the bottom links at Police). Since this looks like it's going to be kept, we're definitely going to have to transclude it in all the articles it links to, some of which are using {{Continent/region topic}}. Beware though there's going to be continually forked edit warring over how to list the SARs of China. –Pomte 06:56, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

• Keep Per logic above. This type of template-categorization is useful when the field of police research is international in scope. Conjecture as to user motivation/politics in articles shouldn't factor into the decision.--Keefer4 | Talk 06:31, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
• Delete. This template provides no advantage compared to a category, it only takes away screen space. Pavel Vozenilek 12:16, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

• This raises another concern: there is no category that groups these together. –Pomte 06:56, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
  • Explain the existance of Category:Law enforcement by country then.--Huaiwei 14:25, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
    • My mistake. Navigating that category has a disadvantage: if someone unfamiliar is looking for the central article on law enforcement in some country, they can click through several articles only to find that there is no such article for that country. This template does all that sorting work for you. –Pomte 14:32, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
      • This purported "solution" can easily be solved by other less cumbersome ways. A user who clicks on a country-related category can easily see just which article exists, and which does not. A template isnt going to tell you that. I am still wondering if you consider it appriopriate to have a template which can have over 160 entries, and multiply that several times over since many countries have more than one police force?--Huaiwei 16:19, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
        • Navigating by category is more cumbersome in some ways than navigating by template, which is why both can coexist in harmony. The 160 problem isn't going to arise any time soon; it's useful now and that makes it appropriate now. It's not trying to link multiple police forces within one country, but the general article if one exists. Anyway, my !vote is still delete. –Pomte 16:57, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
          • This is not so much about ease of template use vis-a-vis cats (or templates wont have existed at all), but an issue of whether it is practical to have a single template to cover all law enforcement agencies in the world. The last I checked, List of law enforcement agencies seems to show far more entries than this template does, so the problem of 160 entries isnt too far off. I would agree that it is far more practical to have regional templates as is the case for other major topics.--Huaiwei 14:16, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

• Keep per above. - Privacy 18:55, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
• Keep. The template allows material from the Police article to be split off into subarticles on "police in x country" and work towards making the "Police" article more general and improved. Someday there may be enough "... in x" articles to setup the template(s) in some other way. --Aude (talk) 00:08, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
• Keep we'll keep it until it bloats into an oversized navbox and then we'll split it and deprecate it. I like Pomte's ideas, although I do not support its immediate removal, as there are too few topics. The ikiroid (talk·desk·Advise me) 15:02, 6 April 2007 (UTC)