Talk:Taurica

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[edit] Name of the article (vote on move in the next chapter)

Some aggressive nationalist has moved Chersonesos to its current Ukrainian (I suppose) spelling, unknown in English: Khersones. Is this an aid to the Wikipedia reader? Truly offensive. --Wetman 23:32, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Сполучені Штати Америки is the page for United States of America in the Ukrainian Wikipedia. If I went in there and changed it to United States of America, I would be recognized as a vandal— and an aggressive horse's ass. Chersonesos may not be a household word among players of Grand Theft Auto, but it is the name of long standing that identifies these Greco-Scythian archaeological sites, a title recognizable to every educated person. It happens to be Greek. These are the conventions of English. Why do we have to have every toxic little nationalism inflicted on us? --Wetman 23:44, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)

As far as I understand, there used to be a page here and a separate page at Chersonesos. Charles Matthews merged the two at this title. platypeanArchcow 01:44, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)
As per above discussion I fully agree that the article should exist under the name Chersonesus. Britannica also uses this name. The page cannot be moved because there is a history in both articles. I intend to submit a request at Wikipedia:Requested moves but before I would be interested to hear whether there are possible reasons against the move. Thanks1 -Irpen July 1, 2005 00:07 (UTC)
  • The whole article is using the name Chersonesos, the other name appears only in the title. I think a move should be done. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 1 July 2005 00:15 (UTC)
  • I agree completely. The article should be moved to "Chersonesos". --Valentinian 1 July 2005 13:19 (UTC)
  • At worst, make a reference on the Khersones page and explain why the actual entry exists under Chersonesos. Although I would more likely search Khersones rather than Chersonesos. -- mno July 6, 2005 22:14 (UTC)
This can be easily handled. Khersones and Hersones would redirect to Chersonesos (to answer your mole likely search consern) and Khersones would be mentioned in the beginning of the Chersonesos articles as an UA/RU name. OK, no one seem to really mind. I will post a request at Wikipedia:Requested moves soon. -Irpen July 6, 2005 22:24 (UTC)

(I'm abashed to read how vituperative I was above: but this is not just one isolated incident, nor just one slightly flawed move. I've seen so much of this manner of cultural bullying that I'm quite cross and raw-spirited on the subject. --Wetman 6 July 2005 22:42 (UTC))

Take it easy :). The vote below will be smooth, I am sure. --Irpen July 7, 2005 00:37 (UTC)

[edit] Move/Rename to Chersonesos

It is hereby proposed to move Khersones to Chersonesos to reverse current redirect. Historic name, most frequent ref, the article name in Britannica, more reasons above. The article is already written as if named Chersonesos. Please vote below. -Irpen July 7, 2005 00:37 (UTC)

  • Support --Irpen July 7, 2005 00:37 (UTC)
  • Support -- mno July 7, 2005 00:45 (UTC)
  • Support --Ghirlandajo 7 July 2005 07:55 (UTC)
  • Support —Michael Z. 2005-07-7 21:51 Z
It's done. Talrias (t | e | c) 10:19, 10 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Greek for 'Crimea'?

Perhaps I'm wrong, but my understanding is that Cherosonesos is applied to the whole of the Crimea Peninsula.

And as I recall, doesn't Euripides' Iphigeneia in Tauris take place here? --FourthAve 08:48, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

This article could be enriched, and further differentiated from that on the Crimea by adding mention of the literary traditions associated with it (as above), and also from Herodotus, who refers to the Kerch Strait as the Cimmerian Bosphorus and the Sea of Azov as Lake Maeetis, fed by the Tanaïs (Don) River. --FourthAve 22:49, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] You're all wrong!!!

Sorry I didn't post this last month, but I had no idea it was going on until now. You're all wrong! The traditional English is Chersonese. Just as Peloponnese doesn't belong at Peloponnesos or Peloponnesus, neither does this article belong at any of the alternative names. I don't know about Google testing, but applying the definitive Byron Test proves it beyond a doubt:

The tyrant of the Khersonesos Chersonesus Hersonesos Chersonese
Was freedom's best and bravest friend
That tyrant was Miltiades!
Oh! that the present hour would lend
Another despot of the kind!
Such chains as his were sure to bind

See? --Jpbrenna 07:40, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

Your right. Make the move.
  • If someone is going to move this, do it the right way (by using the Wikipedia "Move" function), not by creating a duplicate article with a different title!! And while you are at it, fix all the different spellings contained in the text of the article, please. --Russ Blau (talk) 15:08, August 31, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] I'm confused

It is quite difficult understanding if the article's title refers to the city or the region. If it's the region, as I think, the article should be renamed Tauric Chersonese. If instead it means the town, the article should be renamed Cherson. I'm willing to do it, but first I wanted to hear your opinions Aldux 11:45, 26 November 2005 (UTC)

I'll rename the article Tauric Chersonese in a day or two. Aldux 11:22, 4 December 2005 (UTC)
Unfortunately the article is now thoroughly confusing. "Tauric Chersonese" (the Peninsula of the Tauri) was the name that the Greeks gave to the Crimea. Chersonesos was an individual Greek colony - one of several in the Crimea. The two are not the same thing. The articles are going to have to be de-merged... -- ChrisO 22:54, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
Done, with clarifications so that hopefully it won't be so confusing in future. -- ChrisO 23:20, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Taurica vs Tauric Chersonese

Several arguments for Taurica:

  1. As it is said in the artile, Chersonese is simply a peninsula in Greek. So why should we leave this word untranslated? E.g. we say in English the Kerch strait, but not "Kerchenska protoka", "Kerchenskiy proliv" or "Kerç boğazı" (protoka, proliv and boğaz are Ukrainian, Russian and Crimean Tatar for the strait). Why do we translate "protoka" and do not translate "Chersonese"?
  2. As I've mentioned in the article itself, Latin name for the penisula was Taurica, while Greek one was Tauris/Taurida (similar to Ellas/Ellada).
  3. Unfortunately I'm not much familiar with English-language sourses, but in Russian and Ukrainian books only Таврика (Taurica) and Таврида (Taurida) are used.
  4. The name Taurica is more preferable because it makes impossible any confusion with the city of Chersonesos.

PS Now we have got three articles: this one, Tauris and Taurida. IMHO all should be merged into one. The question is how do we name the united article: according to the Latin name (Taurica) or to the Greek name (Tauris/Taurida).

Don Alessandro 19:30, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Unclear

"...she was forced by the Taurian king Thoas to perform human sacrifices on any foreigners who came ashore."

Does that mean make sacrifices of foreigners? —Michael Z. 2006-11-08 21:16 Z

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