User talk:TAnthony/archive 3

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[edit] Galaxy too small?

Hi. Re the BJ page "universe" vs. "galaxy" thang: Why do you say "galaxy is too small"? This is true later of Leto II's empire ("my multigalactic empire") and anything after the Scattering, but at the time of the Jihad? Do you have a quote you base this on? (Just wondering if I've missed something!) --SandChigger 19:42, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Regarding the Butlerian Jihad article, I know that technically a galaxy can contain many star systems or whatever, but I think the word connotes a smaller scale (maybe because own galaxy is a single-star system). Obviously FH never specifies exactly how far apart his planets are and all that, but if they were relatively close, heighliner travel wouldn't be such a big issue! And FH never used the word galaxy (except in your Leto quote); maybe we should use "multigalactic" in the article. TAnthony 20:30, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Hmm...this is turning out to be interesting. You kinda threw me with galaxy "connot[ing] a smaller scale (maybe because own galaxy is a single-star system)." Are you referring to the Milky Way? I'm not getting your meaning. (Of course, I've been up all night and may no longer be rational!) Could you explain?

It's true that FH didn't specify distances, but he did locate some of his planets around known stars, FWIW. (Note that our estimates of the distances to some of these—the best example being Canopus itself!—have changed significantly since he wrote Dune.) A lot of people have commented on how small the area the Old Empire seems to occupy really is when you "connect the dots". But even for a space of only a few hundred light years, heighliner travel IS a big deal. While FH never specifically rules out FTL travel, he never specifically admits it, either. (I personally believe he eschewed "vroom-vroom"—as I prefer to call space-opera FTL like we see in the Legends—and therefore had to come up with space-folding to avoid the story-killing snail's pace of generation ships. Another reason, incidentally, why I think B&K erred in placing Holtzman in the Jihad era; if later Ixian navigational devices can replace navigators, pre-Jihad AIs would have been just as capable of the task. And at least a millennia or two of non-subluminal transportation would have been necessary to create the cosmopolitan galactic culture we see in the Legends. AI controlled space-folding ships are more "Dune-like" than vroom-vroom [internally consistent], and their destruction during the Jihad would have been a strong stimulus for the development of the Guild navigators.)

Finally, FH did use the word galaxy. Three times, in fact: once in Dune and twice in Heretics:

"It's a penal colony," the Baron said. "The worst riff-raff in the galaxy are sent to Salusa Secundus. What else do we need to know?"

Miles Teg knew his history well by then. Guild Navigators no longer were the only ones who could thread a ship through the folds of space—in this galaxy one instant, in a faraway galaxy the very next heartbeat.

(Galactic appears only in the combined form multigalactic that I mentioned before, in GEoD:

This planet of Arrakis from which I direct my multigalactic Empire is no longer what it was in the days when it was known as Dune. )

Not trying to be a pain...just exact. --SandChigger 23:13, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

LOL, you present your case like I would: dumping a pile of bricks on the opposition! You are so right, I was thinking solar system, not galaxy; I guess I shouldn't make edits at 2 am with a couple of drinks in me!

Obviously, I did see those uses of galaxy but I guess I meant that he didn't ever imply that his whole host of planets was in a single galaxy (at least, I wasn't interpreting it that way), e.g. "in this galaxy one instant, in a faraway galaxy the very next heartbeat." TAnthony 00:54, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

LOL...I figured it must have been something like that. (Hangover not too bad, if any, I hope.) Btw, any thoughts on the Landsraad point I brought up? (Also...does the name even occur in the Legends books? Some parts of my BoC file are a bit suss at best!) --SandChigger 05:11, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Landsraad

From Talk:Butlerian Jihad

The Landsraad, by OLD Canon, predates the post-Jihad religious riots by 2,000 years. Please see my comment here. --SandChigger 05:55, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

I was the one who recently pulled (what I thought was) the DE material into its own section, and on the top of the Landsraad talk page, I admitted that some info could potentially need to be moved out of that section when sources were found (I don't know EVERYTHING, LOL). You should definitely work the 2000-year item back in somewhere; I'll check back when I have some time and do it myself if you're not able (stealing your quotes, of course!)

I only have text files up to Dune: Butlerian Jihad, but it's probably worth flipping through the end chapters of Battle of Corrin to see if Landsraad is actually used in some way, or if we're just making the logical assumption that the League led to it? It's interesting how we read an article with questionable facts, and then edit another article with those "facts" in our heads as if they're lifted from the books! Hmmm, obviously the Prelude series came first, but could they have alluded to the League origins of the Landsraad there? TAnthony 05:57, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] 10,000 years

OK, what is wrong with me?! Regarding the Butlerian Jihad article, I'm the one that put in the Jihad definition from Dune which clearly includes the dates. Maybe I should give myself a vacation, ;) 06:04, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

ACK! If you go on vacation, there'll be no activity on the Dune pages at all!!!

Well, OK, probably not but still...don't sweat it. We all have off days! As the locals in these parts say, "Even the monkey falls from the tree." :) --SandChigger 06:25, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Monkeys?!

Where is it you live exactly? I'm in Los Angeles ... by the way, the more I look at the FH books vs. the prequels and Hunters, the more I see ways in which the boys (BH/KJA) went wrong. Have you been slipping something into my drinks? ;) TAnthony 16:18, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Where am I? Well...someplace with monkeys, obviously! :)

As the proverb says, 猿でも木から落ちる (Sometimes even a monkey falls from the trees). Here one monkey checks a comrade who has slipped for wounds...and tasty critter morsels!

I really wouldn't know anything about anyone slipping something into your drinks. (BWA-HA-HA-HA!!!)

"Went wrong" is of course a very subjective thing. I don't hate or revile them, I'm just very sad because I think they could have done so much better. Ah well, maybe in a parallel universe? --SandChigger 18:23, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Religions (Dune)

I take that link edit/redirect as a vote for, then. :)

(I've been watching and waiting, sounding the waters; will steam ahead now. ... No, I don't know why the nautical theme, either.) --SandChigger 00:38, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Dynasty middle names

Please stop re-adding these non-canon middle names; please see the following: Talk:Dynasty (TV series)#Removal of apocryphal character names for as explanation why they are inappropriate. TAnthony 01:34, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Why do you keep deleting my additions?

The "questionable" names come from three different sources: 1) the series; 2) The Authorized Biography of the Carringtons by Esther Shapiro; and 3) Judith Moose, author of Glamour, Greed & Glory - Dynasty. To quote her:

"This is information I got from Spelling Entertainment (about ten years ago) while working on a research project.

Blake Alexander Carrington

Alexis Marissa Morrell Carrington Colby Dexter Rowan

Fallon Marissa Carrington Colby

Amanda Kimberly Carrington

Claudia's middle name is Mary"

You might try watching the series. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Jboy2525 (talk • contribs) 17:37, 6 March 2007 (UTC).

Watch the series?! You just stated on my talk page that these names are from a companion book and another author. As noted on the Talk page for the article, if these names were NOT ACTUALLY USED ON THE SHOW, they should not be listed in the character section. However, if you reference/quote these books, they may be included in the Behind the Scenes section. I have the Unauthorized Biography at home somewhere, I'd be happy to add the information the proper way for you if I can source it. TAnthony 01:42, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

OK, I've added information on both books to the article, and mentioned the middle names in the only way which is appropriate — Moose may be entirely correct, but without documentation we have only her word, and that its not enough for Wikipedia standards. The middles names in question are not mentioned in The Authorized Biography (which, by the way, is not written by Shapiro, only has an intro by her). Thanks for your understanding. TAnthony 03:22, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Renaming Image

Thanks for renaming and then restoring the image for the Fremen article. I didn't know how to do it so I simply removed it instead. For future reference, how did you do that? Thanks. Comatose51 22:54, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

No problemo, I had noticed the filename in the past and chose to ignore it! I did it the only way I know how... I saved the image to my PC, re-uploaded under a new name and linked the new file to the appropriate article(s). Then I tagged the old image for speedy deletion on the basis that it's redundant (using this template: {{db-redundantimage|replacement image name.ext}} and referencing the new filename). You just have to be sure the file to be deleted isn't linked to any articles or the Admin will get confused/kick it back. (I might have actually used a generic db template in this case, and also mentioned that the file was inappropriately named). TAnthony 00:00, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] List of Family Houses in Dune

Hi TAnthony:
I think the List of Family Houses in Dune article needs to have a better summary, and make it understood that the list contains only houses specifically mentioned. Non-Dune fans that come to this list would get the impression that the number of houses is rather low. In my opinion, this is a disservice to them. Do you have any suggestions to improve the wording to make it implicitly clear that the list is non-exhaustive? Zidel333 15:01, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

Hey there; since the article is a list of Houses mentioned in the series, I thought the fact that there are many more unnamed ones is immaterial. But there really should be a Landsraad link somewhere on the page anyway, so I added something back in. What do you think? TAnthony 16:33, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

Your addition to the article is perfect. Thank you for your help on clarifying this. Zidel333 02:22, 18 March 2007 (UTC)