Talk:Tanoli
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[edit] Barlas Origin
I can't understand why this page cites theories with no proof. There is proof from documents that the Tanoli race is descended from the Barlas Mughals, then why is this not mentioned anywhere?
Who is this Paktun pushing alleged Tanwali who hides this information? I order you to come forward and admit your wrong doing. If you are arguing, then why are you not arguing full facts? Why are you turning us into something else? I have both books that have this proof of who we are? We do not live in Afghanistan, we live in Pakistan so out of cuckoo land.
User Raja, we are not Punjabi and although you do not say we are, we dont like to be linked there either, as there is much bad blood between us and the sikh killers who devastated our people, and we resisted and defeated. Please refrain from editing our page.
[edit]
I ran across this page using the "random page" link. I agree that the text is copyright infringement. The contextual stub that I added does not infringe, however, and would make a fine stub for this article.
- Nate
[edit] Article re write
I have re written the article from it's previous form but have included the theory of where they theorise they are possibly from. I have evidence from many sources to suggest that they are descendants of the Janjua. 'Tehreek e Janjua' (sahiwal Press) by Raja Mohd. Anwar Khan and 'Chronicles of Earley Janjuas' Dr Hussain Khan are both sources for the given info.
I have for obvious reasons removed the 'aboriginal' tribe references, sounded too much like a colonial write up.--Raja 19:29, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Tidy up
Have wikified and done a tidy up as best as I can after consulting some references (and lots of research) also added and further elaborated the entire article. Please feel free to add further info.
[edit] Vandalism 202.83.173.117
You are vandalising a page you know next to nothing about. I have provided fully referenced sources and yet you have provided not one. If you continue to vandalise this page I will recommend your banning from wiki. You arent even prepared to talk about this and your uncivil behaviouir towards other pages is also clear. Cease immediately. I am reverting this page back to it's original fully sourced version.--Raja 17:05, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Historical evidence for Pakhtun origin of Tanawalis now also know as Tanolis
I have given many sources for the Pakhtun origin theory. Also I have written a critical analysis of the various issues concerning the language, culture, history and relationships with fellow Pakhtun tribes of Tanawalis e.g. Jaduns, Dilazaks, Swatis etc. who all live adjacent to the Tanoli areas and have intermarried and share valleys, lands and language. Tanawal, Pakhli and Mansehra, as well as Abbottabad's Orush valley, are all territories that are similar in many ways and are central to the Hazara identity and culture. The references given by the Janjua 'theorist' are definately fradaulent as this writer has consulted the original material and not found any references to Janjuas or raja Tanoli anywhere. The books by the two Janjua writers, who do not belong to the great tanawali race but are northern Punjabis whose sources are dubious to say the least and who are trying to concoct a 'history' that has no historical foundation. Furthermore, the history of a people is determinded by it's own oral and written accounts. The ruling family of Tanawal do not list Raja Tanoli in their geneological table nor does he figure in their family accounts - are they wrong, deluded or should we accept their version of their own history which is consistent with those written by non-Tanawalis? Abbasid accounts , for a very small minority of Tanolis, is more plausible than a Janjua 'history' for all Tanawalis. 17:06, 25 October 2006 (Pakhtun Tanoli)
[edit] Reply to Pakhtun Tanoli
Hello and thank you for your input here. I would stress that;
a) The sources that I quoted, I actually have copies of them to back up proof,so I am surprised that you question them IF indeed you have their copies as you state. I can even post a picture here of the texts in question for the ones you have questioned if you would like? I dont believe you anticipated this offer, but I more so dont believe you have consulted the texts yourself as YOU suggest.
b) The Janjua have no need to use another's history seeing as their own history is fully referenced and sourced as was this article until you starting inputting nonsensical 'point of view info' without any referenced citations. But regarding your delusion of Tanolis baring no attachment at all to Janjuas, it is claimed elsewhere (not by me or any other Janjua solely) of this connection and it's synonimous relevance to each other yet again [1] were this not the case then why are people mentioning it?! I dont agree all Tanolis are Janjua, but there are true Raja Tanoli descendants (real Tanoli Janjuas) who have genelogical tables showing this and have been mentioned by even Mughal Jehangir, so where you claim that it doesn't show on the Nawab's genelogical table I cannot understand BECAUSE had he actually had a genelogical table in the first place, then surely the Barlas Mughal or Abbasi theories would be put to rest would it not!
c) You have been 'revert warring' an article without any discussion at all. I have incorporated your Pashtun origin theory into the article and you completely deleted the Janjua theory? Thats rather uncivil and immature considering there isn't any mention of a 'Tanoli nation' in Hazara pre colonial era texts.
d) Before accusing me of any nonsense please see this link [2] which is undoubtedly a mention of a Tanoli Punjabi Musalmaan, so before badmouthing Punjabis, read your OWN history properly. And in case you call that a one off, here is Subedar Kalandhar Khan of the 91st in his full Tanoli glory [3]
If you want a proper discussion, with respect, according to wiki ethics I will engage with you (though I am very busy, I will Inshallah accomodate you) but if you want to be abusive (which till date I have NOT been towards you) then I will disengage and report you.
The text Chronicles of Early Janjuas by Dr Hussain Khan is written BY A TANOLI, so how can you ignore it? He was a professor of history at Peshawar University no less, so chances of a deluded Punjabi cannot be accepted (I can print his background from his book on here with an actual picture too if you want proof?). Keep things in perspective. I dont believe every person who calls themself a Tanoli is a genuine Tanoli by descent, they are all geographically named instead of by blood I believe, especially given the Swati example you give which is interesting. But to totally deny EVERY contrary evidence without debate indicates a Point of View, which isn't encyclopedic. (This is an encyclopedia, hence neutrality must be maintained. This is NOT a eulogy page).
Secondly, I have not come across a SINGLE source by any historian which records Tanolis as Pashtun, absolutely none. I would appreciate a Yousafzai text which would accept them as their brethren (Again THERE IS NONE) I would gladly accept a local account for this by neighbouring Yousafzais etc but again I am dissappointed here too. 'Al Afghaniya Tanoli' is a strange case. Pashtuns are not the be all and end all of all things Afghan. Syed's are absolutely not Pashtun, yet they are Afghans by localised centuries of inhabitance and cultural practice. So Tanolis culturally Afghan background is not disputed. But to change them ethnically, give them another faith i.e. Pakhtunwali, is a bit far fetched and extreme to say the least.
Now be civil and engage properly.--Raja 10:39, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Tanoli Sub Tribes
There are sub tribes of Tanoli who are residing in upper and lower Tanowel Area, the some of them are as under.
[edit] 1- Sadial Tanoli,
Sadial Tanoli tribe is living in the areas of 1-Bammochi Khurd and Bammochi Kalan. The most famous names are as under
Shamraiz Khan Tanoli DAE in electrical Engineering from Pakistan, BE In Electrical Engineering from Washington international university USA, MBA From college of commerce USA, and Presently working in KSA from 25 December 1995.Now in a Telecom company (BATCO Telecom Professional company)as Project Manager i:e International well recognize company in Telecommunication field, Web site is WWW. Batcogroup.com. He serve also in Pakistan as Electrical Instructor in Technical training centre Mansehara, Haripur(Khalabut Town Ship) Bajour Agency Mangora (Swat).Under directorate of Manpower and Training NWFP Pakistan, 5 years.(from 1990 to 1995).
Mohammad Rafiq Tanoli:- Insta Phone Manager Graduated from Karachi university and diploma in computer Engineering from Karachi. MBA from college of commerce USA. and working since 1995 in Insta telecom Mobile company as Manager. He serve his services in Islamabad, Abbottabad, Topi Swabi and Peshawar area for the development of Mobile services, and always achieve his Goal.
Mazhar Iqbal Tanoli CA: Executive Manager Working in life insurance company in karachi. he develop a lot of programs for his organization,
Sohail Ajab Tanoli:- Lecturer in Karachi University. Presently Studying for PHD Mathematics in Germany.
Zubair Ahmed Khan Tanoli:- Mechanical Engineer In Pakistan Petroleum company in Pakistan. During his study he did a lot of project and wrote a book in a Group of 4 Engineers. which is included in the course of Engineering university Karachi.
Naheem A Kareem Tanoli:- CA 2nd officer in Muslim commercial Bank Karachi. He achieve his goal in a very short period and working in karachi Pakistan from 2004. to up date.
Amjad Pervez Tanoli:- Associate Engineer in Electrical technology. working in a telecom company in Islamabad.
Thora, Sherwan, Pahteel ,Shaheed Abad, Chummatti, Kangran.Lassan Nawab saheb,Beer Pohar,Bandi Mutrach, Khalora Takia Hall, Bachha, Pind, Gandian, Kangran, Kangrora. Rutta barilla, Kothiala Sandu Galli, and other area of the tanowal.
2- Karlal, 3- Jadhal, 4- Kargowal, 5- Sunhall.
212.116.220.23 10:43, 28 October 2006 (UTC)Engineer Shamraiz Khan Tanoli
MBA in Telecom From USA. Presently working in Saudi Arabia in Telecom company as a Project Manager.
E-mail:- shamraiz@batcogroup.com
[edit] January cleanup
This article is in a complete mess at the moment and needs to be wikified asap. The current debate of origin is taking place away from this page and should be discussed here.
Although citations have been requested for info (personal opinions and points of view are not allowed on wikipedia, all assertions MUST be cited and sourced).
The citations have been requested since autumn '06 and still none have been provided. I can only conclude that none are available, hence not applicable for this article.
Unless citations are provided, the article will be dealt with as per wiki policy and previous 'cited version will be used. Please feel free to debate and contribute anything here so that the matter can be discussed and article progressed.--Raja 14:31, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
This article does not need any alterations. This Supersingha needs to get back to his own pages to do with his own race and ethic group.
- Strange, because here is a Punjabi Tanoli Punjabi Tanoli Army Subedar so your implied racism must now take this into account. Infact in Sir Ian Scott's book, "A British Tale of Indian and Foreign Service: The Memoirs of Sir Ian Scott", that, "Amb is mainly occupied by Tanaolis, who, like the somewhat mixed population of Phulera, are not Pathans, and do not speak Pushtu. The small trans Indus state of Amb state is, however, entirely Pathan." (Radcliffe, 1999, p66, p67). So which ethnic are we talking about here?!
It is apparent that he is interfering with issues he knows next to nothing aboput. If Wikipedia does not bar him from meddling then there are other ways to deal with this problem.
- Such as?
There is enough evidence to justify the assertions put fprward in the references section.
- Great! Please provide them instead of "alleging to bring it forward". Thats IF you have it.....
I have gone around researching on the Wiki site on various issuesthis so-called Raja has put his nose into and it seems he is not satisfied with anything that contradicts his obsession with trying to prove something that is not historically true. He is not even willing to accept Tanawalis own historians nor the Tanawal ruling family who reject they are janjuas and also that they ever had an ancestor from that line as so adequately written by Pashtun Tanoli.
- Funny because the same royal family dont know their origins. Infact they dont know if they are Aryan, Indic, Mongolian or Pashtun at all. They have never confirmed it because they simply dont know. But your use of language is very poor.
Mr Supersingha says they are wrong and is using the tricks of the trade of Wikipedia editing to put conditions on this article that is wholly correct. Well Mr Supersingha I will provide thse citiations and if I do that then will you put up and shut once and for all? You will need to aoplogise to the whole Tanoli nation and Pashtun Tanoli to. Tahirkheli 16:38 7 January 2007
- Again, poor language. But either way, instead of posting up threats to provide the info, why dont you save yourself the time and effort and actually do it instead of threatening to do it. But before you go, here is another connection with Janjuas ;-) [4]--Raja 15:09, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
I am a tanoli and proud to be one. I know that my ancesters were tanolis and that is enough for me to know and make me proud of my race.Tanolis are a brave and distinct people of the tanawal mountains and they spread from Mardan to Baluchistan.There is a pashtun tribe in and around Queeta, who proudly say they are Tanolis and so do my brothers in Mardan, who are in a majority there, in around four villages. Tanolis are a race with a proud and prosperous history; so it is common for people to relate themselves to us, we should not see this as a negative aspect but we should not start believing these allegations.And secondly mr.janjua, what do you mean by stating that the royal family doesnt know of its origins, i thought you were a sensible person before you typed that, they are also tanolis and all the tanolis are from the same bloodline,if you have any doubts clear them because im from that family and i confirm it,A TANOLI WAS A TANOLI, IS A TANOLI AND WILL REMAIN AS A TANOLI !!!
- Firstly, you misread what I wrote. When I wrote the main Nawab family doesn't know it's origins, I meant in terms of whether they were Barlas Mughal or Pathan Yousafzai. That was actually documented in a national article. They ofcourse know they are Tanoli. I have absolute respect for the brave Tanolis, but the derogatory remarks made by the members above really do put a shame to the name Im saddened to say. The info presented in the article referred to a mentioned link to Janjuas, but also highlighted other links too. This is an encyclopedic site and therefore all sides of the story must be presented in an open and fair way.--Raja 23:23, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
