Talk:Takarazuka Revue

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I suppose I could edit it myself, but...

Here are a bunch of questions and clarifications that should be made to this article, for whoever is in charge or otherwise monitoring this page.

• Most fans of the group are young women.

Are they? All the times I've been there (I walked past the theatre every day for 3 years, and have been to about 20 performances) I would estimate that middle-aged women make up the greatest part of the audience. Many might be closer to the mark than most.

• senka/special course

First the translation is a bit naff, and they are not really a troupe as such, more a squad of actresses not attached to one particular main troupe, but brought in for particular roles. I think (but am not certain) that it tends to be the veterans who get promoted to this group.

• Western classic musicals or novels

They also do operas, like Aida mentioned later, and I've seen La Traviatta, Tourandot and La Tr...something else... in the last few years.

• Phantom of the Opera (named simply Phantom)

It is so-named because it is Phantom, a US musical of the book, not the Lloyd-Webber West End Phantom of the Opera. I've seen both the Takarazuka and the West End versions.

• Elisabeth

Should someone create an article for this musical, the biggest German-language musical ever (there's a wee bit about it on the Kaiserlin Elisabeth page)? Also, what about some text to say how Elisabeth has replaced Rose of Versailles as the popular standard that they put on every year? There used to be something about RoV being the standard, I think. Having said that, they are reviving RoV at the end of the year and putting it on twice in a row.

• Also, Sena Jun (is there a Wikipedia convention for Japanese name order?) retires at the end of the current Jazzy Pixies/Revue of Dreams run.

• Sena Jun doesn' t retire yet. Wao Yoka and her partner Hanafusa Mari retire at the end of Never Say Goodbye, the next performance of Cosmos troupe.

202.228.229.72 07:33, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

• Most fans of the group are young women.

How about "most of the group's fans are women"?

Exploding Boy 18:24, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

Contents 1 Name order 2 Takarasienne 3 Otokoyaku/Musumeyaku 4 Senka 5 Yuri fandom (refactoring previous discussion) 6 Former Takarasienne 7 Categories of Musical they perform 8 About SENKA 9 Questioned.....

[edit] Name order

The Wikipedia standard for names of modern Japanese figures is to use normal English name order (given–name family–name). On this page, the names of some Takarasienne follow this standard order while some duplicate the order of the Japanese names (family–name given–name). I realize that English name order may ring less familiar with Revue fans in and out of Japan, but English order is what is used in Revue English publications, and following the standard makes the Jennes's pages easier to find and the page content easier to understand ("Is her given name Sena or Jun?") for those less-familiar with the Revue. I think making it easier for new people to learn about the Revue and become fans is a good thing.

Over the next few days I will do the following:

1. Move existing [[Family–name Given–name]] Jenne pages to [[Given–name Family–name]], and make [[Family–name Given–name]] a redirect to [[Given–name Family–name]].
2. Replace Family–name Given–name references in this article with Given–name Family–name.
3. Do the same in existing Jenne articles.

Future Jenne articles should be created as [[Given–name Family–name]] with a redirect from [[Family–name Given–name]]. -- Meyer 06:49, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Takarasienne

... needs a definition (portmanteau from Takarazuka + Parisienne). (I think the French would probably say "Takarazukaine" by parallel with America -> Americaine, but I doubt my logic carries any weight in the Sumire Empire.) -- Meyer 09:04, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Otokoyaku/Musumeyaku

• otokoyaku would be better translated as male role, and daughter role whilst literal seems clumsy - female role instead? -- 202.228.229.72 07:33, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

Otokoyaku is "male role." Musumeyaku is not exactly equivalent to "female role"--there difference should be noted, and saying "literally daughter role" is a good way to do it. -- Exploding Boy 18:24, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

The terms are meaningless and confusing to those not already familiar with the Revue. Otokoyaku and musumeyaku should be translated into English ("male role"/"female role"?) and changed together here and in all jenne articles. -- Meyer 20:54, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

I am now leaning toward breeches roles and skirt roles as translations of otokoyaku and musumeyaku since these are established English theatre terminology. Skirt role = musumeyaku is not a perfect fit, but I guess that can't be helped with a unique institution like the Takarzuka Revue. -- Meyer 07:40, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Senka

Need to make sure this is consistently translated as "Superior Members" in all Revue- and jenne-related articles. -- Meyer 21:04, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Yuri fandom (refactoring previous discussion)

• Is the gratutous references to yuri fandom really significant or necessary? -- 202.228.229.72 07:33, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

I hardly think it's a "gratuitous reference." It's an established fact. -- Exploding Boy 18:24, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

I think I've got to agree with 202.228.229.72. If it really is an "established fact" then it should be mentioned first on the Yuri page, which it's not at this time. If and when "Takarazuka Revue fetish" is considered significant enough to mention in Yuri, then someone can consider whether it's significant enough from the POV of the Takazuka Revue (not a forgone conclusion) to restore the reference to Yuri here. I've updated the "Cultural phenomena" section accordingly. -- Meyer 07:19, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Former Takarasienne

I'd like to rework this section incorporating information from the much more extensive list on the Japanese WP page, particularly emphasizing those who went onto careers other than acting, like politician Chikage Ogi.

There are so many actresses on the list (101 on ja.WP page), I'd like to define some criteria for their inclusion on this English page (current list seems to overly-favor recent "graduates"). -- Meyer 07:49, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Maybe list only actresses with entries at IMDB.com? This wouldn't be representative of their popularity in Japan, but might be a fair criterion for mention to the en.WP audience. This standard would leave Hitomi Kuroki on the list but disqualify Mao Daichi. -- Meyer 07:58, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Not feasible....Since most of the actresses continue work on stage rather than on TV or movie. -- Cougarwalk 20:17, 2 March 2007 (UTC).

What about limiting it to actresses with at least a stub page on ja.WP and citations of a career after Takarazuka? -- Meyer 10:49, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Some people in the English speaking community is working on that.... -- Cougarwalk 20:16, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Actresses listed on ja.WP page Takarazuka Revue Graduates (62 names, 54 with own ja.WP pages)? -- Meyer 08:33, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Categories of Musical they perform

This section and its clumsy title need to be rewritten.

What are the "two main categories of the musicals"?

1. "Western classic musicals, operas, novels or even films" (this is one category?) (The extensive list of sources consumes more space than appropriate: mention a few exemplary sources, perhaps a few more in a section on "Notable productions" (strangely missing at present).)
2. manga
3. Japanese and Chinese history (This gives short shrift to Japanese period drama which is a major genre for revue productions (roughly half of Grand Theatre productions).)
4. biographies
5. original works

… quite a long list for just two categories: tighten up. -- Meyer 08:26, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] About SENKA

I have made a change from "six troups" to "five troups" because SENKA might not perform alone. The name of the Takarazuka Revue is applied by assumption that the Takarazuka Revue (Additionally with Takarazuka Ongaku Gakkou = Takarazuka Music School that is the theatrical company member training place) is one school. The theatrical company member is called SEITO ( student), the retirement is called SOTSUGYOU ( graduation) and Founder Ichizou Kobayashi is still called SENSEI (Teacher) ( according to the book by Shinji Ueda a producer working for Takarazuka Revue ). SENKA means "a specialized subject" or "a non-degree graduate program" and special members (actress who are topping soon, the former top's actress, and the elderly veteran actress) belong to SENKA. To begin with, is SENKA a troupe ? I think that it is a mistake to call the group that might not perform alone troupe.Penpen0216 02:25, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Questioned.....

>...but at the end of the first year, women are divided by the faculty and the current troupe members...

Divide by current troupe member? Aren't they know which troupe they will in AFTER their first stage? ---- Cougarwalk 06:48, 2 March 2007 (UTC).