Talk:Taiwan Taoyuan International Airport

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[edit] Name change

Several users intiated a move of this article to its newly approved name with the presumption that the airport has officially been renamed. This is not so. The Legislative Yuan has approved the name change, but the name itself has yet to be renamed. In[1], it states, that the government didn't mention when the name change would be implemented. This is also reflected in the airport's official webpage [2], where no name change is apparant. I would request for additional sources if both these sources are outdated before attempting to rename the article yet again.--Huaiwei 10:56, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

The official website still uses the old name, so I agree keeping the name CKS Airport for now. It is unnecessary to move too quickly.--Jusjih 19:29, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
In fact, the sign in Airport is changed. [3]--Littlebtc 04:57, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
The name has been changed on Wed Sept 6, 2006. We should change the page. [4] Wenzi

Also as a point of correction, the Legislative Yuan was not involved with this as stated above. It was a decision made by the Cabinet, and approved by the Executive Yuan. Not the Legislative Yuan. That approval came on Wed the 6th. , so the name has been officially changed. Wenzi

In addition to the back-and-forth page move here, I also see the same thing at Chinese Wikipedia. It is widely believed that as President Chen Shui-bian is in major trouble, the Government administered by his Democratic Progressive Party has made this name change to divert attention. Many DPP members have hated mentioning Chiang Kai-shek so they would just call the airport by Taoyuan. The same thing applies in Communist China where Chiang would be considered a historical enemy.--Jusjih 11:32, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

I made a mistake about mentioning the Legislative Yuan, so I beg your pardon. Meanwhile, the only compelling evidence presented so far was that picture [5]. The text in [6] makes no mention on when the name was adopted, especially considering its dated 1 September 2006!--Huaiwei 11:37, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Anyways, according to WP:NC we shouldn't move this article to its new name until the new name gains widespread usage. --Will74205 18:32, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
Huaiwei , There is more information coming from the gov now. [7] But I jumped the gun, according to WP:NC we should wait. The gov thinks it will be 4 to 6 months for the complete name change anyway. Wenzi 22:59, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
I think this name change presents quithttp://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Chiang_Kai-shek_International_Airport&action=edit&section=1e a "unique" situation coz in most other cases, the name change is immediate and all airlines and other airports usually reflect the change immediately. Not so in this case, which appears to be phased in. I noticed my local airport (Singapore Changi Airport [8]) still refers to it by its old name, for example. Do the ROC government intend to set a deadline for this name change?--Huaiwei 07:39, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
The renaming of CKS is a political issue. So like before, people who strongly identify themselves with one political faction will continue to refer to the airport with one name, while others refer it with another. Personally, I think the renaming is pointless. --Will74205 22:13, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
Indeed, it is a political issue, and while I find this name change trivial (and stupid-- what's wrong with Chiang Kai-Shek?), it happened and that's all there is to it. Thus, the name of the article should be changed to reflect its current official designation. --butterfly0fdoom 01:59, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
There does not seem to be a deadline for the change from the government. Some things have changed like the announcements at the airport and when airplanes land announcing the name of the airport. They made the name change before they changed the name on contracts and such. I think if they announced the name change too far in advance, other groups would have had time to stop the change, IMHO. Wenzi 01:02, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
The name change has already happened - at least on the buildings. I was at the airport and saw that the signs are already changed on T1 and T2. http://flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=243166986&size=o This is the picture I took Wednesday. They used different, lighter tiles for the signs than the original, which looks kind of weird. I am going to argue that since the name is now already changed on the building, the name of the airport has been changed, for all practical purposes. Aep 16:34, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

As much as I find the name change distasteful (because it was done as a calculated move by Chen Shui-bian to try to distract attention, not because I liked Chiang Kai-shek as a person or as a president), the name has happened, the buildings' names have been changed, and so have the printed literature. I don't know why the Web site hasn't changed, but I think the article should be moved to reflect the new name. --Nlu (talk) 23:25, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

I put in a request for the name to be change (and protection to continue, for obvious reasons), but no one's responded to that yet. --butterfly0fdoom 03:44, 24 September 2006 (UTC)
The moderator asked for "consensus" on that page, although the top of the page warns against "discussing changes" on that page. And not to be too snarky, but anyone who expects Taiwanese websites to be quickly updated and current ... hasn't tried to use many of them ;-) They're not really well known for being up-to-date or accurate (sometimes the China Post site seems to be updated about 24 hours late among others)... Possibly the TPE site isn't updated due to a lack of a budget for updating it? Or time constraints? Or maybe they're going to make a whole new site? Aep 09:33, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

It seems like the [website] has changed the name, however they are still using the old URL. Wenzi 12:45, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

And a rather half-hearted attempt at that. Just see [9]. ;) I was hoping they will just effect the change decisively and help end the dispute over here.--Huaiwei 13:36, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, the Chinese version said that the renaming should be completed by end of Sept. However, I suggest we move the article to Taoyuan International Airport in order to avoid political overtones. --Will74205 18:07, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
No, I think we should move the article to Taiwan Taoyuan International Airport. It doesn't matter if there are political overtones. Fact is fact, and fact remains that "Taiwan" is part of the name. --butterfly0fdoom 01:37, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
The name actually IS Taiwan Taoyuan International Airport. People are not just adding Taiwan, that is the official name. Wenzi 14:31, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
The name has officially been changed. It is on the website, and I saw them changing the name on signs in the airport itself on the news a few days ago. This debate should be declared over. The name has officially been changed, and that is the end of it. --Ludahai 02:46, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

So with the signs and the website changed to the new name, can we PLEASE reach a consensus that, no matter how much some of us (including myself) dislike this name change, it has happened and we need to grow up, get this page unprotected and corrected, and not continue that immature revert war? --User:butterfly0fdoom 03:15 30 September 2006

I concur. Aep 09:10, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Let's stop the constant name changing please Wenzi 03:18, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "Taipei-Chiang Kai Shek" or "Taipei-Taiwan Taoyuan"

When listing the name of the airport for airline destinations, what is the best designation to use? Bucs2004 01:46, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

"Taiwan Taoyuan", also do not use Taipei. There is a different airport in Taipei. Wenzi

I would support either the Taipei-CKS or Taipei-Taiwan Taoyuan, or more simply Taipei-Taoyuan, but the point is to distinguish it from Taipei-Songshan. --Will74205 07:28, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

I agree, although I would think that Taipei- Taiwan-Taoyuan Int'l might be the most clear, although inelegant. Aep 08:34, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Once again, It would have to be Taiwan-Taoyuan International. Taoyuan is the name of the city the airport is located in, not the name of the airport. The difference between Newark and Liberty International.

Taiwan-Taoyuan International? What happened to Taipei? I would suggest Taipei-Taiwan Taoyuan, leaving out the Intl part, as with EZE vs AEP, NRT vs HND. Elektrik Blue 82 14:38, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
Be careful in this, for I understand various political factions are calling for different names, with "Taipei CKS" amongst them. Including "Taipei" in the above name may actually be interpreted as taking a political stance...--Huaiwei 15:20, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
Thanks. If that's the case, let me clarify. I only suggested the above suggestion, due to the non-partisan reason that TPE airport serves primarily the city named Taipei, and that it has been renamed, so I just took the first two words to disambiguate from the other airport, namely, TSA. Elektrik Blue 82 17:34, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
Thanks Everyone! So don't use Taipei-Chiang Kai Shek. Okay, i can live with that. I just think to still use the CKS name eventhough the name of the airport has changed. You can go ahead and change it if you like. Bucs2004 20:42, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "Taipei-Taiwan Taoyuan" or just "Taipei-Taoyuan" as a neutral term

There has been a few anon editors (ie those in the Singapore-Changi article) over the use of Taipei "Taiwan"-Taoyuan in the list. What I'm suggesting is that should "Taipei-Taoyuan" be used as a neutral term in all airport destination articles, as there is no need to list a country in a airports destination, or just list it as Taipei, as IIRC there is only one airport in Taipei serving international flights from memory (correct if there was another airport serving international flights that i'm not aware of). --Arnzy (talk • contribs) 13:41, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Just listing it as Taipei will not work because Taipei has two airports, TPE and TSA. It doesn't matter if one is international and one is domestic. But yes, some people take issue with Taipei-Taiwan Taoyuan so making it Taipei-Taoyuan may satisfy everybody. After all, it is just a disambiguation. Elektrik Blue 82 14:55, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
I concur. Passing through the airport this evening, I heard locals refer to it as TTY airport - and saw signs to that effect (mostly at the bus companies) - much like it used to be listed as "CKS Airport"...just my 2¢ Aep 18:00, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

I disagree. "Taipei-Taoyuan" is not neutral. It expresses a point of view in that you do not want to call an airport its real name. Wenzi 03:32, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Then you have those saying that there is no need to add "Taiwan" to the name. One example being here, despite "Taiwan" being in part of the official airport name. --Arnzy (talk • contribs) 11:28, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
Also, this is just for disambiguation purposes. We also do this in disambiguating other airports, such as Buenos Aires-Ezeiza, but the real name is Ministro Pistarini International Airport; Tokyo-Haneda, but the real name is Tokyo International Airport. I don't think it expresses a POV of not wanting to call an airport by its real name. After all, the article of the airport has its real name. Elektrik Blue 82 13:41, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
I meant I did not agree to "neutral term in all airport destination articles". Taipei-Taiwan Taoyuan as a city & and airport designation, I believe is ok. As a destination as most people know Taipei, and the name of the airport is Taiwan Taoyuan . For example [[10]], we would call the airport O'Hare. Saying Chicago-O'hare would be fine. I would not want to change every reference of O'Hare to Chicago-O'hare. Taiwan Taoyuan IS the name of the airport, so Taiwan should be there. I think maybe the Singapore Changi Airport have not figured out Taiwan is part of the name. Wenzi 16:28, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
I prefer Taipei-Taoyuan over Taipei-Taiwan Taoyuan. First, Taipei-Taiwan Taoyuan is a little long; and second, Taipei-Taoyuan is enough to differentiate it from Taipei-Songshan. So I would perfer the shortest term that is enough to differentiate it from the other Taipei airport. Having said that, I don't have strong opinion to how the airport is referred as long as it is clear.--Will74205 20:33, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
I agree. Regardless of the political implications of including Taiwan in the listing, I prefer the shortest listing possible (as with Tokyo-Haneda and Buenos Aires-Ezeiza). DB (talk) 19:45, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
I disagree. The name of the airport is Taiwan Taoyuan. To not call an airport by the given name is not NPOV. Should we change all references to Singapore Chiangi(sp?) Airport to just Chiangi airport ? Wenzi 23:06, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Location/the political stuff...

Okay, there are three international airports in ROC, but all of them in the Taiwan Province. So, do we talk about them using the word ROC or Taiwan? (Ambiguity-wise, I vote ROC, as Taiwan can mean Taiwan island.) -Penwhale | Blast the Penwhale 09:30, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Actually, one of them is in Kaohsiung City, which isn't part of Taiwan Province. I vote for Taiwan, because it's less confusing, and both of the airports are on the island of Taiwan anyways.--Jerrypp772000 00:47, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Jerry contradicts himself. He says that they dont belong in Taiwan province. But when it does belong in Taiwan province, he deletes all references to Taiwan province. For example, for Guantian, Tainan. the Township is in Taiwan Province, but he purposely removes reference to Taiwan Province, Republic of China. Look at the history and you will see. Clearly he is pushing a political agenda. -Chunghwa Pride 02:15, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

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