Talk:Taichung

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Date of review: 2007-03-30
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Contents

[edit] Let's keep this objective

I came to this page after months of absence and saw numerous unsupportable opinions by some person who obviously has something against the City of Taichung. I am once again in the process of fixing up this article with facts, and devoid of opinion. If someone comes in here and begins inserting unsubstantiated opinion again, they WILL be reported!

Michael Turton: There's a rumor running around that I am responsible for the negative tone of this page. I had nothing to do with the creation or maintenance of this page. In the future I hope to edit it up to a more reasonable standard, and include plenty of pictures. -- Michael

Ludahai: Michael, I don't know who did what, and I frankly don't care. I would love to have help in making this a world class page. I have several friends of mine who are Taiwanese, local Taichung residents, who are helping me gather information for this page. Any positives contributions are appreciated. - Tuesday, October 3 7:00 (Taiwan time)

This article is pretty cranky in tone still. I can see that it's getting better. I've visited Taizhong a few times and it is a pretty neat place, not nearly as drab/bland/awful as this article might make you think. The transportation system section was pretty funny a while back - quite true, but someone with a major chip on their shoulder about Taiwan in general wrote it (buxiban teacher?)... Keep up the good work in cleaning this up... Aep 16:52, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ongoing Editing

As noted before, I am working on bringing this page up to Wikipedia Cities Project Standards. Here is a summary of edits made on September 29, 2006.

1. Delete the two sentences about geography in the introduction, and move to the new section on geography. 2. Put in sources for the symbols. 3. Reduce “Districts” to a subsection within the new “Geography” section. 4. Edit tree, add link 5. Edit flower, add link 6. Add link to bird: 7. Add Geography section 8. Edited population to reflect figure given on the Taichung city website 9. Edit Sister Cities section 10. Edit capital to eliminate abbreviation 11. Mention adoption of HanYu Pinyin in the intruduction with reference

Please do not sabotage my efforts.

Someone came on again and sabotaged the entry with unsourced information. How can I ask for this entry to be restricted to editing by registered users? == Ludahai (10/3/06 14:17 UTC)

References section has been added and will grow as more book references are referred to in the development of this page. Ludahai 23:09, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

Over the next couple of days, I will be highlighting the cultural spots in the city. I will also go around and take some pictures. Hopefully, I can also get close enough to the new baseball stadium to get a picture there as well.

I expect the major research anddata entry to take another week to ten days. Then, I will need to clean it up. Check for typos, make it smoother - especially due to damage created by others. I will then seek advice from others on WikiProject Cities. Hopefully, within three weeks to a month, this will be a presentable page. Ludahai 13:49, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Inner City Intersections

I live in downtown Taichung. Nearly ALL major and many minor intersections have English signage on them. This anonomous person who keeps posting otherwise had better come up with a source for this. == (Ludahai 10/3/06 14:28 UTC)

I'm not that user, but in my personal experience that Romanization in Taizhong is pretty hit-and-miss, especially compared to Tainan, Gaoxiong, Jilong, etc. Even Gangshan does a better job than TZ. Maybe it's just that I notice all of the omissions? I dunno Aep 17:01, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 220.132.217.171 - Show yourself

Who are you? You have made no comments in here, and no justification for removing accurate information I have recently added. If you don't come in here to justify your inaccurate statements, I will be forced to bring this to the next level. You are not a registered user. Please come out of hiding. ==Ludahai (10/3/06 14:36 UTC)

I live in Taichung and I just looked at some of the edits. Ludahai's edits are generally pretty accurate about our city. Let him complete the site, or make comments in here. Do not ruin the work he is doing on this page. (民國95-10-4 AM10:23)

Please stop your vandalism. Ludahai 06:49, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mass Transportation

I have never seen a bus stop not serviced by a bus (though you may have to wait.) Even stops in distant parts of Beitun District are served by some buses. ==Ludahai (10/3/06 14:42 UTC)

[edit] History Section

This is a work in progress, but many major events in Taichung's history are presented. I am currently sifting through a couple of Chinese language sources I just came upon to present more information. What I will likely do is create a main entry for Taichung's History, and leave the highlights on this cite. Some of the information from from before was left, but it needs citation. The reference to "Little Las Vegas" is false information. I have talked to dozens of people in the past week, and not one of them has ever heard of Taichung referred to as Little Las Vegas.

There is also some formatting problems with the sources. I will try to fix those up later, through if someone can do that for me, I would appreciate it. == Ludahai (10/4/06 00:40 UTC)

Another unregistered user has come on to completely misrepresent the history on this page. I am going to ask editing to be blocked to non-registered users. Ludahai 01:06, 5 October 2006 (UTC) Ludahai (10/5/06 01:05 UTC)

[edit] WikiProject Cities discussion

I am creating this topic for comments on how to finish bringing this article up to WikiProject Cities standards. Ludahai 03:36, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

Hi! Great work with this; my initial impression is that this page is really coming together. I haven't had a chance to fully read it all, as I'm at work, but one thing that jumps out at me right away is the international airport section. In my opinion this should really be on its own page. Mention the airport but link to an airport article. A good airport article is Dallas-Fort Worth International Airport. I'll give the page a full read later and let you know what else needs done, but this looks fantastic so far. Nach0king 08:42, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

I read your message on my Talkpage. If you go to "edit this page" and the top line reads, "This article is xx kilobytes long" (the xx stands for the number), I would recommend making it short and concise. Also add this page to your Watchlist in case the vandalism gets rowdy. --D.F. "Jun Kazama Master" Williams 12:01, 17 October 2006 (UTC).

It is a very good article. I think it should be featured. --FreshFruitsRule 20:41, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hello Ludahai

What made you think of me when asking me to evaluate your page? I think your article deserves featured article status. Your work is outstanding. Auroranorth

[edit] Article length

Hi Ludahai, just added some templates to decrease article length. For examples of city articles see featured articles of places, though even these have differences in quality/structure. Best regards, Brz7 11:27, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Infobox, units, and citations

Hi Ludahai,
I am responding to the message for review you left on my talk page. I only quickly scanned the article, I'll read it more completely later, but here are a few simple sugguests.

  • If you could use the standard infobox (Template:Infobox city) that would be great.
  • A couple of the metric units need their imperial counterparts.
  • Do you have any type of citation concerning the part about the speed limits being optional and stop signs being suggestions? I know that you live there and you probably see it everyday, but a citation like a newspaper article would be nice (or required).

From what I seen it looks good so far. —MJCdetroit 12:59, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks

1. I don't think this article is ready for feature status yet. There is still too much work to do.

2. I need to look at more Chinese language sources, but Chinese is not my native language, so that will take me some time.

3. I will work on the suggested articles that others have posted, as well as an in depth article on temples. There are a large number of them in the city.

4. I will get to work on many of these items next week.

Thanks. Ludahai 00:53, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Taichung-related articles/imagery

Sorry I'm late, Ludahai. From what I can see, you and your colleagues primarily contributing to this article have done a pretty decent job. My only real concerns lie in regards to this formatting of images and the lack of linked articles to Taichung related information.

First off, the linking, I see a lot of links heading sections for education, history, etc., but they all seem to be non-existent articles as of now. The formatting for the manual fits with the links, but without articles to link to it seems to defeat it's purpose.

Second, the image formatting is cluttered and lacks good form, spacing, etc. For example, the crowding in "Japanese Colonial Era", where there are other very good spots to put the images you've got... And to me, it looks like you've got all your pics on the right side of the page generally. There's a couple problems you could work out, like the lack of external links, and the images/linking issue I just noted.

Besides that, this article looks pretty decent, as I earlier remarked. I agree with MJCdetroit on the citation issue, but like I said, there are just a few little issues that could be fixed in an edit or two that would improve the article a lot. Thanks for requesting my help! It's not to often a guy from Denver gets to talk about Taichung. Have a good one. Editor19841 (talk) 23:31, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

thanks for all of the comments. I am currently working on the affiliated articles, which will then allow me to cut some off of the main Taichung article. I will also clean it up and introduce more sources once I have done that. I am currently working on the temples and education articles. Transportation and History will be next - and less problematic. Ludahai 10:41, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Taichu vs Taichung

Dear Ludahai, Taichung was called Taichu (Taichū in proper romaji) during the Japanese Colonial Era. I don't see any conflict. A similar issue might be that modern-day Kaohsiung was renamed from Takau (打狗) to Takao (高雄) during the same era. Oniows 13:52, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hanyu Pinyin

Taichung City formally adopted Hanyu pinyin two years ago. Someone deleted my reference to that fact. Ludahai 08:40, 10 November 2006 (UTC) There are currently numerous forms of Pin Yin being used sporadically in Taichung and the Ministry of Education has not begun teaching any form of Pin Yin in public schools. Please provide a link to a verifiable article or document to justify this claim. If no link can be provided it will be deleted.

[edit] Semi Democratic Era

Taiwan is not at true democracy. The constitution being used by the ROC has not been ratified or accepted by the people of Taiwan. The Republic of China does not hold Taiwan's sovereignty thus it can not decree or renounce anyone as Taiwanese. The fact that non ROC citizens residing on Taiwan, numbering nearly 1,000,000 people are legally prohibited from participating in Taiwan politics under threat of crimial prosecution is indicative of a non democratic state.

That the ROC does not hold Taiwan's sovereignty is a POV claim that only the independence side accepts. Also, if not allowing non citizens to participate in politics is indicative of a non democratic state, then which country in the world is democratic, according to you? -- ran (talk) 22:04, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
 ----------------------------

Taiwan is an occupied territory of the ROC, the ROC does not hold Taiwan's sovereignty. This not a POV claim, but fully substantiated in international law. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_occupation http://www.taiwanbasic.com/taiwan/tda5.htm No one is saying that non ROC citizens should have the right to participate in ROC elections. The fact that non ROC citizens are legally prohibited from participating in any election on Taiwan by the ROC is indicative of an occupational government.

Furthermore, the ROC openly nullifies the basic human rights of non ROC citizens on Taiwan. This is another clear indicator of the occupation of Taiwan. Taiwan is not a democracy but a democratic farce.

Please show any internationally recognized document justifying the ROC claims that Taiwan is the soveriegn territory of the ROC. There are none and there will never be any. The succession of Taiwan to the ROC was illegal and illigitimate under international law and the Laws of War.

Unfortunately, this is YOUR point of view, which is not accepted by the Kuomintang. The Kuomintang regards the Cairo and Potsdam Declarations as valid international documents. Wikipedia does not belong to your POV, it belongs to all POV's.
Also, you just contradicted yourself there by saying: No one is saying that non ROC citizens should have the right to participate in ROC elections. The fact that non ROC citizens are legally prohibited from participating in any election on Taiwan by the ROC is indicative of an occupational government.
Finally, if you feel so strongly about the ROC, why aren't you editing Republic of China?

Why are you editing the article Taichung, which should be about the city, not the country? -- ran (talk) 05:43, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

There are no claims on the ROC page stating that Taiwan is a democratic nation or in a "democratic era". I might suggest that these statements be removed from the Taichung page because they are false. The ROC is a foreign occupational power controlling Taiwan and Taichung.

Restricting freedom of speech based entirely on ethnicity or citizenship is just one of the the many blatant human right violations being perpetrated against the people on Taiwan by the ROC. see "election and recall laws of the Republic of China" The ROC has the right to restrict political participation in the ROC government, it does not however have the right to restrict political activity on Taiwan. The fact that it does is indicative of an occupational government. Again, a Point of View becomes a fact when it is substantiated by international law. For Wikipedia's point of view on the matter see Laws of War and Military occupation. The KMT is not recognised as anything, by anyone, outside of itself. Again please refer to any recognized international document supporting your claim the the ROC is the legitimate government of Taiwan or that Taiwan is a democratic state and I will relent.

Please follow Wikipedia guidelines by signing with four tildes.

As for your POV, I happen to agree with it. However, it IS POV and futhermore, this is NOT the forum for it. ludahai 魯大海 11:05, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Stop the vandalism

I can't believe the childishness of some people on here. This used to have Good Article status and I was trying to elevate it even higher. Childish antics have resulted in its being downgraded. ludahai 魯大海 13:52, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ta-Chia-hsi revolt...?

Is the aboriginal revolt mentioned in the "Early History of Taichung" section the same as the Ta-Chia-hsi revolt? --Ling.Nut 17:53, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] GA failed

Too listy. Many redlinks. Poor writing ("Taichung is rarely severely affected by typhoons, except once it was terribly inflicted by Wayne Typhoon in 1986 which landed Taiwan from the west coast near Taichung."). Too many pictures, including three that cover both the right and left sides of the text. Most content seems to be taken from tourist brochures. --Ideogram 06:22, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

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