Talk:Tai Le

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I am somewhat knowledgeable about the Tai Le script but I know very little about the language itself. If you know anything more about the language, please add it!

[edit] Tai Le, Tai Lue ...

I think there is a confusion here. "Dai Le" (Chinese: Dǎilèyǔ 傣仂语) is Xishuangbanna Dai, known outside China as as Tai Lue or Tai Lü. The people call themselves tai⁵¹ lɯ¹¹. "Not to be confused", indeed! The images in this article are Dehong Dai (Dai Nue). Babelfisch 05:13, 7 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Another opinion

...I think they're the same?

Perhaps the source of confusion is the use of multiple scripts. The Dehong Dai (Lanna) script is actually used in Xishuangbanna now, in addition to a Chinese-government simplified script from the 1950s. See [1]...

In the past, Tai Lue men learned to read and write the Old (Traditional) Tai Lue Script while attending the Buddhist monastery as youngsters. Tai Lue is a sanskrit script with Burmese influence, having originally come into Sipsongpanna with the arrival of Theravada Buddhism.

However, in the 1950s, after the founding of the People’s Republic of China, the Chinese government developed the New (Simplified) Tai Lue Script. Therefore, since the early 1950s, the New Tai Lue Script has been taught in the Chinese educational system and used on signage and for newspapers and books.

Later, in the early 1980s, the Tai Lue were given permission by the Chinese government to go back to teaching the Old Tai Lue Script. This has created a very confusing situation in relation to Tai Lue literacy. Depending upon age and other factors, some Tai Lue will be literate only in the Old Script and others only in the New Script.

Chinese scholars commonly hold that the Dai language and its dialects is a sub-branch of the Zhuang-Dong (Kam-Tai) branch of the Sino-Tibetan family. There are at least 5 dialects of Dai in Yunnan, the main dialects are those spoken at Dehong and Xishuangbanna. Before 1949, five Dai written languages were in use. The more popular scripts later formed the basis of present day Xishuangbanna and Dehong Dai writing. The script is a cross between Burmese and Lao. After 1949 the Chinese developed a new simplified Dai script for use among the Dai of China. Currently both new and old scripts are taught and used.

--prat 03:29, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

No, they are not the same and four writing systems are currently in use. The source you quote is a bit confusing: This is all about Xishuangbanna Dai - there is an old and a new version of that script; Dehong Dai is a separate writing system.

傣族使用傣语，属汉藏语系 壮侗语族 壮傣语支。有德宏方言和西双版纳方言。 傣族有拼音文字，各地使用文字略有不同，可分为傣仂文（西双版纳傣文）、傣哪文（德宏傣文）、傣绷文和金平傣文（又称傣端文）4种。4种傣文都来源于古印度字母。[2]

Another quote with basically the same explanation:

傣语属汉藏语系壮侗语族壮傣语支，分为西双版纳、德宏、金平三个方言，使用较多的是西双版纳方言和德宏方言。傣族共有四种不同形式的文字：西双版纳傣文、德宏傣文、傣绷文和金平傣文。[3]

And here is some more. Babelfisch 04:02, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

I've just found out that in 2002 a dictionary was published in the old spelling (see also Tai Lü language - I think this article should be merged with that one): Dāo Shìxūn 刀世勋, Dǎi-Hàn cídiǎn 傣汉词典 (Yúnnán mínzú chūbǎnshè 云南民族出版社). Babelfisch 03:12, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Merge with Tai Lü

I'm proposing to merge this article with Tai Lü. "Tai Le" is just another name for Tai Lü:

• Own name in IPA: [tâi lɯ̏]
• Chinese names: Xīshuāngbǎnnà Dǎiyǔ 西双版纳傣语, Dǎilèyǔ 傣仂语 (Wade-Gilese: Tai-le-yü)
• English names: Tai/Dai Lu/Lü/Lue/Ly/Le, Xishuangbanna/Sipsongpanna Dai, (Shui-)Pai-I[4]

There was some confusion because there are two writing systems for this language, but I think that has been made clear. In the Article on Tai Lü, both alphabets should be described.

Another problem is that "Tai Le" seems to be used sometimes for Dehong Dai (Tai Nüa), which has also the following names in English: Dai/Tai Nuea/Nue/Nü/Na, Dehong Dai, Tai Mao, Chinese/Yunnanese Shan, Yunnan Shantou.[5]

Before merging, the images have to be checked. I'm not quite sure which alphabet they show. The transcription is not very useful - it's neither IPA nor any official transcription system.

Any objections? — Babelfisch 03:37, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

I was confused by the change by Caiqian (20:01, 7 April 2005), who added the Chinese name "Dǎilèyǔ 傣仂语" - it should be "Dǎinǎyǔ 傣哪语". The title of the article suggests that it is about Tai Lü, and the addition of the Chinese name Dǎilè made the confusion perfect. I was further confused by Pratyeka in this discussion. Both Tai Lü (Xishuangbanna Dai) and Tai Nüa (Dehong Dai) have undergone reforms, but Tai Nüa is not an older form of Tai Lü. The images in this article are definitely New Tai Nüa (New Dehong Dai). I finally suggest that the information in this article be merged with Tai Nüa, which seems to be the most common name for this language. — Babelfisch 08:12, 1 September 2005 (UTC)