User talk:TAG.Odessa

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[edit] Why are you deleting my contribution?

TAG, you deleted the Sarkis Ordyan part of the Odessa page based on you never hearing of him? Please tell me what is your expertise in 20th century Art History to make such a judgement? I learned about this artist while on a trip to Armenia and met his fans and family. I don't think what you did was fair, professional or mature. Sarkis was well known in the Ukraine and does not deserve to have his cultural contributions to Odessa and the Ukraine defaced. Have some shame and respect for the work of others. Put my post back within 24 hours or if you are too immature I'll do it myself.

Hovaness 21:10, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

I've no objections on Sarkis Ordyan. Simply expand his article Sarkis Ordyan first and then link to it from Odessa. There are too few information about him in article and internet (I was unable to fill gaps in this article on my own). Just compare his article with Anna Akhmatova, Ze'ev Jabotinsky, Sviatoslav Richter. --TAG 11:16, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Welcome

Hello, TAG.Odessa, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay... —dima ^/sb.tk/ 03:21, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. --TAG 14:35, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Welcome

Hello, TAG.Odessa, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

• The five pillars of Wikipedia
• How to edit a page
• Help pages
• Tutorial
• How to write a great article
• Manual of Style

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions.

If you are interested in Ukraine-related themes, you may want to check out the Ukraine Portal, particularly the Portal:Ukraine/New article announcements and Portal:Ukraine/Ukraine-related Wikipedia notice board. The New article announcements board is probably the most important and the most attended one. Please don't forget to announce there the new articles you create. Adding both boards to your watchlist is probably a good idea.

Finally, in case you are interested, similar boards exist at Russia portal as many editors contribute to topics related to both countries. The respective boards there are: Portal:Russia/New article announcements and Portal:Russia/Russia-related Wikipedia notice board. Of course there are also many other portals at Wikipedia or you may just get right into editing.

Again, welcome!. --Kuban Cossack 15:08, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Odessa

Sir, you wrote:" User:Abune edit with flags. It add too much colors and take over users attentions. You are welcome to create Ods. sister's article with list of cities/dates/flags and other historic information".

Please compare Odessa with other wikipedia pages like Madrid#Sister_cities. It is not customary for wikipedia to create separate article for this. It's too easy to delete, please consider moving my edit into (new) "Sister_cities" section from it current location if you feel it's too much there. A.Bune 15:14, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

I've no objections on content (as it was added by me) - but I've objections on presentaion. Flags were not looking fine in this small box list. For some cities they were on different lines. I'm fine with flags in body of article (this can be section) - but definitely not in infobox. IMHO, it make sence to create sister cities article for Odessa as according to Sister cities article it's was first city with international twining agreement. --TAG 15:26, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Deleted Image:Robert Scoble.jpg, added Image:Robertscoble.jpg

IMHO, your uploaded image Robertscoble.jpg at 19:35, 31 August 2006 Zanimum vioalate Wikipedia:Verifiability rules are there is no way to validate your claim on licensing. This is clearly much worse that FairUse license used on original Robert Scoble.jpg. I feel that Robert able to upload images to his blog on his own and make it clear that thouse are public domain. TAG 20:42, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

There are, in fact, ways to verify this. Zanimum, could you forward the emails giving licensing permission to permissions@wikimedia.org? We'll file it and mark permission details as confirmed. Shimgray | talk | 00:41, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

I've forwarded the message. -- Zanimum 14:19, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Vadym Hetman

In the succession box, is it the same Matvienko from Prominvestbank? I remember he was once affiliated with NBU, but I seriously doubt he ever served as chairman. Sashazlv 23:38, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Yes. Here is his bio. As well here is my sources for succession appoitment Matvientko (06.06.1991), lay him over (24.03.1992), appointment Getman (24.03.1992). --TAG 03:28, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. Now I remember the whole thing, de jure NBU existed before Hetman, but de facto NBU began functioning somewhere late in 1992. Sashazlv 04:51, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

You are welcome. The fact that Hetman come to replace Matvienko is becouse Matvienko was unable to make NBU to work (at least this is that law from 24.03.1992 say). It was not easy task taking in account economic cituation during thouse times. --TAG 04:58, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] My edit to Ukraine (diff)

Look at the pages of other countries (Poland for example) - how many links are there! It is usual in wikipedia for country entries! --158.36.28.196 16:30, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Country entries on Russia or Bulgaria have just as long link lists! There is nothing wrong in the references! --Roman Zacharij 16:36, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Links like www.ukrnow.com myukraine.info www.travel.inlviv.info/aguide/aguide14.php www.infoukes.com www.ko.if.ua/index.htm are clearly offtopic. Education links is unknown how you have selected those universities from over 1000 working in Ukraine. There is no way to define how many links must be included here. All those links can be added to corresponding articles (like education ones in university articles). If you wish to list links about Ukraine - go to http://dmoz.org/Regional/Europe/Ukraine and Yahoo directory. There are a plenty of links - but WikiPedia is not links collection - read WP:NOT --TAG 16:58, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Virtual classroom

I've set up the Virtual classroom (VC), which is a forum for the discussion of advanced Wikipedia skills. It differs from the help forums on Wikipedia in that major topics of discussion are scheduled and once started remain continuous.

The reason I'm contacting you is because one of the class assignments is a comparison of our user interfaces. A lot can be learned from individual users, who usually have developed their own ways of doing things. I noticed you are an expert programmer, so you no doubt have some tricks up your sleeve. I'm hoping that you will stop by and share and compare the interfaces you use when browsing and working on Wikipedia. I've also constructed a tools page which presents everything learned from these discussions, and it is growing -- there are some pretty powerful techniques on there now. Even Interiot, Rich Farmbrough, and CBDunkerson have participated in the VC to show off their tools and methods. It's been a lot of fun, and you are invited. The interface topics are called:

• External interfaces - let's compare

and

• Internal interfaces - what do you use?.

I look forward to seeing you there and to learning your wikiways. Sincerely,  The Transhumanist   23:00, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] ru-sib

I'll halt the bot until the ru-sib issue has been resolved. I'm sorry for the inconvenience my bot may have caused. Feel free to leave me a note if you feel that I should undo the disruption. -- Wegge 14:25, 24 December 2006 (UTC) (And a merry christmas)

Thanks ! It's somewhat early for Christmas here - as we (Ukraine) celebrate it on January 7. There is no need to revert as outcome of dispute is not possible to predict. Let others bot operators decide if it must be removed or not. P.S> Also take a look on Moldovan Wikipedia - decision was made to delete. --TAG 14:46, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

Support. I support closure of ru-sib Wikipedia. It's still possible for Yaroslav Zolotaryov to rent his own web-server and use existing MediaWiki software to promote his project. 1000's of interwiki-links from Wikipedia pages to "personal" project is not acceptable. If his project will be successful and license will not restrict this - Wikipedia will be able to simply copy data back to main servers anytime in future. --TAG 04:50, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] З Різдвом Христовим і з Новим Роком!

DDima presents to you this wonderful Christmas tree of Kiev (Kyiv) and wishes you an upcoming Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!

---

З Різдвом Христовим і з Новим Роком! —dima/s-ko/ 17:17, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Happy New Year! (Ukrainian: З Новим Роком!, Russian: С Новым Годом!). I wish you in 2007 to be spared of the real life troubles so that you will continue to care about Wikipedia. We will all make it a better encyclopedia! I also wish things here run smoothly enough to have our involvement in Wikipedia space at minimum, so that we can spend more time at Main. --Irpen

[edit] Criticism of Windows Vista

My mistake. It's not really a copyvio (it is fair use), but it was plagiarism. When you use exact text from a source (as in this case), you must put it in quotation marks. If you only use an idea or fact, you don't use quotes. Either way, you must use a footnote (which there is here). I'm going to put back the original text with quotes. Superm401 - Talk 19:53, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Why are you deleting the external links?

Hi, Why do you delete the links to www.aircraft-list.com Image Gallery? If it is indeed ads-related, why , let's take this as an example ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonov_An-225#External_links : links to airpics.com (there are a lot of links to this domain from a lot of aircraft pages, if you want to see i can show you some examples), aircraft-info.com are up? Are those your websites? Are you there webmaster? Please revert your changes in 24h. Thanks, Have a nice Sunday —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Nekhbet (talk • contribs) 08:27, 18 February 2007 (UTC).

Answered at Nekhbet Talk --TAG 08:58, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Why do you remove only the links to aircraft-list.com? Have you checked the other ones?

Removing tags/links added in good faith without replacing them with references is disruptive editing —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Nekhbet (talk • contribs) 09:34, 18 February 2007 (UTC).

fabulous question. There s no need to remove those links. They are pictures of the aircraft, not spam (spam is by definition, e-mail). —The preceding unsigned comment was added by BQZip01 (talk • contribs) 05:52, 19 February 2007 (UTC).

Please read WP:SPAM and User talk:Nekhbet. It's everything clear. Wikipedia is not links collection - all cool pictures must be licensed under GFDL license and uploaded to commons.wikipedia.org in order to become valuable addition to Wikipedia articles. Stealing images based on 5 minutes Google/Yahoo search and linking to website full of Google AdSense and Ebay ads from Wikipedia is clearly spam. Links to avoid include Links to sites with objectionable amounts of advertising --TAG 06:00, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

If I will remove the ads ... will it be ok? I want the website to be useful, not to have some gains from it.As I said, I like aircraft. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Nekhbet (talk • contribs) 06:46, 19 February 2007 (UTC).

Done :), there are no ads now Nekhbet 06:51, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Ads is not primary reason. You must get permission from all images owners. But better for you is to try get permission to post them to commons.wikipedia.org --TAG 06:57, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

It is an external link and I think it serves its purpose better as a distinct web site (better structure) than under the Commons. I invested a lot of work on it until now (I have added every image by hand).Please don't interfere with them anymore as the website is really useful (at least the visitors say so). I will rather get banned and delete all my current works for wikipedia than abandon my hobby web site. Nekhbet 07:05, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

I disagree. Visit commons:Boeing 747. There is no reasons why you need to have link from every Wikipedia aircraft article to your website. You can keep working on it without Wikipedia links. 99.999% of websites do so successfully. --TAG 07:22, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

What is the purpose of "External Links" if not this? I will add links from now on, only on pages that don't have a rich Wikimedia Commons (you are right, the Boeing 747 page is really ok). Thanks Nekhbet 07:29, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Read WP:EL for meaning of "External Links" section. --TAG 07:33, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

I have read it many times and I don't see the problem with aircraft-list.com (maybe an admin can) ... (I will be away in the next 24h so sorry if I don't reply to further messages). Take care Nekhbet 07:41, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

I've clearly specified this in my first warning message issued you in User talk:Nekhbet. You are in clear violation of WP:EL#Advertising_and_conflicts_of_interest --TAG 07:47, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Just on my way to go :) ,I see now, sorry for making you waste your time. But please remember this : "please consider mentioning it on the talk page and let neutral and independent Wikipedia editors decide whether to add it", when I came back I'll post this on talk pages and let the other decide, not you or me. Is this ok with you? (It is legal as far as your document!) Thank you, Take care Nekhbet 07:53, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Tereshchenko

I don't really feel strongly either way. I did not follow Bushes and others and built the pattern based on, say, Ostrogski, Olshanski and other prominent families in whose articles I took part. Let's ask around and see what others recommend. We will then decide what to do.

I do not recommend submitting the formal WP:RM vote since those bring all sorts of clueless people. It may be proper for controversial moves when parties do not agree but there is nothing controversial in deciding which title is best for the article about the last name, for another article about the dynasty, yet another article to dab all the people.

Perhaps:

• Tereshchenko family - for the dynasty
• Tereshchenko (surname) - for name's etymology and links to people that carried it
• Tereshchenko to dab between the two above plus the street and other associated geographic locations (I am sure there must be villages or towns as well)

Maybe others have better ideas on how to organize it. I don't feel hotly either way as I ran into this working on museums. Kiev Museum of Russian Art is coming out shortly from me under the National Museum of Russian Art and while researching for it I simply wanted to add the notable links to the family members somewhere. Cheers, --Irpen 07:11, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Well. Naming is not primary issue now as there is there is no content yet. Content is priority No1, page names is secondary. But in my opinion link to Tereshchenko must point not to some family - but disamb list. In addition to street there are aircraft series[1] (but for sure - somewhat related). I appreciate your hard work on Wikipedia and my change was done not to harm it - but improve. --TAG 07:22, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your compliments and same here. Naming may become a subject of hot debates only if the name choice has some POV consequences. Here, since this is all non-controversial, it really can't wait. Let's think about it and develop the pages in their current locations. There is no universal rule AFAIK. Like, there are Ostrogski and Olshanski but Gagarin family and Lvov family. Choice may be affected by what else is there and the first man in space and a very important city in Ukraine being the targets of redirects affected the naming there (people are more likely to look for Lviv when typing Lvov and for Yuri Gagarin when typing gagarin then for respective noble families.

The prominence of Tereshchenko family while huge, especially for a Kievan line myself, is still incomparable to Gagarin and Lviv. So, perhaps Tereshchenko is best to be indeed a dab. Maybe listed under dab should then be:

• Tereshchenko (surname) (with etymology and complete list of people, family or not and an interwiki link to uk:Терещенко)
• Tereshchenko family (with a link to Терещенки (рід)
• Tereshchenko (aircraft)
• Tereshchenkivska Street and
• all the villages like Tereshchenky (Sumy Oblast), Tereshchenky (Poltava Oblast) (see uk:Терещенки) and whatever Tereshchenkivs and Terechshenkoves there are as well.

I need to take a break now. Cheers, --Irpen 07:53, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

I'm fine with this plan. My only concern was that short wikilink Tereshchenko must give immediate access to all related articles. Splitting this list into more articles will be reasonable - but only then it will grow (for example linking to 2-sentence surname stub is not good - better to keep content on main page). Wikipedia is not ads supported website and there is no reasons to force users click over a lot of pages in order to get information they need. Each click is wasted 5-30 seconds of somebody lifetime. --TAG 08:08, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Re: template

The problem is that the template only takes into consideration the Ukrainian name and the name Ukrainian government wishes to be used in English. As in the case of Kiev, the English name is not necessarily the same as the one the Ukrainian government sponsors, so the template has to be fixed (this is to say nothing of Russian names for cities with majority Russian populations). Well, actually I tried to make it non-mandatory, as for most cities the government name and common English name are now the same, but it wouldn't work on me - not that I'm great with template language. I ask that you reinsert it and make it non-mandatory or something; otherwise I'll have to work out how to do it myself, or find some other way of fixing the problem. Calgacus (ΚΑΛΓΑΚΟΣ) 16:33, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Hi. Thanks for prompt reply. Do you know any example other that Kyiv ? Kiev example was discussed endless amount of time at Talk:Kiev - English name for it is Kyiv. Period. It's preferred by government and others users to use Kyiv (just like it's Myanmar - not Birma). I'm not willing to discuss Kyiv problem in my talk page - there are separate page Talk:Kiev. Also I've no personal opinion on this matter and it's only Wikipedia page name is subject to debate - real world city name is not affected by wikipedia editors ;-) Regarding cities with same English/official names - what's reason to list same name twice ? There are 1344 urban settlements (including 454 cities) in Ukraine[2] - no reasons to mess them simply because of Kyiv example. For example I see you have added same value to Dnipropetrovsk. Also - why you listed so-called English name first in infobox? At best it can be listed second after official. --TAG 17:01, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Oh, please tell me you're not one of those guys? You don't think I've heard this kind of thing before? Kyiv is an emerging alternative to Kiev in English, mostly because of the nationalist policies of the Ukrainian government. It is not "the English name", it is now a minority English name. No government has the right to determine usage in another's language, although some people are free to respect their wishes (e.g. Myanmar, Mumbai). Perhaps the difference between India, the Ivory Coast and Ukraine, is that the name changing policies are not designed to get one over on another native language. Moreover, it's much harder to change usage for important places, where usage is firmly established, e.g. Athens is Athens, not Athenai. Chernihiv is also Chernigov in English (the only name for that city I've ever come across outside the internet or modern newspapaers), Kharkiv can be Kharkov, Lviv Lvov, etc. Now while you might criticize historians for using non-Ukrainian forms, the fact they are used and their usage predates modern Ukrainianisms (no-one in English used Kharkiv, Kyiv, or Chernihiv before the 1990s). Perhaps an "Alternative English name" section would be better for you than "English name"? Calgacus (ΚΑΛΓΑΚΟΣ) 17:33, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

I'm not one of those guys, simply because I don't get into you're either with us, or against us trap. OK. Your template edit has caused troubles in many articles, I've reverted it. But this did not take away your rights to edit Wikipedia and put it back (with correct usage and edit comments on reasoning). I understand that you are expirienced Wikipedian and was trying to improve Wikipedia. In same time - you are clearly aware that there are some WP:NPOV conflict and constant dispute exists so it's up to you how to deal with this. Anybody else will be allowed to edit/adapt/modify your edits in order to make it less biased or conflicting. But this will not be me - I try to pick some articles/topics there no conflicts like this exists - there are lot of others areas there Wikipedia need help. --TAG 18:17, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Good to hear that. My edits were made in good faith, in reaction to a comment on Talk:Kiev that complained about Kiev not being in the infobox. I looked at the template, saw there was no option for an English name and thought "hah, typical!"; I made the changes and implemented them on all the articles with that template that I could find going from the navigation template on Ukrainian administrative cities. The results were ugly, in most cases repeating the same name twice. I don't regret your reverts to my edits, as it solved the problem I unintentionally created. However, the initial problem - "Kiev" being absent from the Kiev template - is still there and needs to be solved. There is the additional problem of Russian names being ignored on the template of the many Ukrainian cities where that language is the main and indigenous language. The template as it currently stands is POV, as it follows blindly the hostile uni-lingustic policy that one section of the Ukrainian political elite is trying to impose on the bilingual nation it temporarily has control over. Wikipedia should not be an extension of this government's ethnic reshaping and propaganda department. Do you disagree? Calgacus (ΚΑΛΓΑΚΟΣ) 19:53, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Template does not limit your ability to specify Kyiv<br />Kiev as official_name or add footnote reference. But please don't take this as advice to action ;-) First of all - take a look at Names of European cities in different languages: I-L#K - I hope you are not going to add all of them in infobox. I feel that there is no POV issue as article has separate section discussing name Kiev#Kiev or Kyiv?, there is no way to put entire article content in infobox. --TAG 20:14, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Come on, how is including both indigenous Ukrainian names going to lead to "all of" Kiev's alternative names in other languages being included? That's just silly, and there's no way I'm going to believe you think I'm advocating this. Calgacus (ΚΑΛΓΑΚΟΣ) 20:17, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Well. I'm really sorry - I would like to drop out from this debate. You will find in me neither supporter nor opposition to this change. The reason for this end-less debate on naming is that there no "perfect" solution - each proposal to list name or not must make some trade-off and there will be always people who will not like either. --TAG 20:37, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Why did you leave a message like that on my talk page? It's totally pointless. That's not what my talk page is for. If you really care about whether I leave edit summaries every time I make an edit you would ask in a non-aggressive way and have a record of making this request to other users, none of which I can see. Regards, Calgacus (ΚΑΛΓΑΚΟΣ) 21:06, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

There is nothing wrong with my request. Please simply take a look on User_talk:Kku#Request_for_edit_summary, User_talk:Pagingmrherman#Request_for_edit_summary, User_talk:Bevo#Edit_summary. It's even part of Template:Welcome6. BTW, deleting somebody else comments is also violation of Wikipedia guidelines. I've requested you to provide comments - but you did not this during your recent edits to Kiev (diff) or Ukrainians (diff). There are hundreds of people watching those pages and they will be interested to know that you did right now. --TAG 21:27, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Reverting edits to one's own talk page is not a violation of anything, including Wikipedia guidelines, and in any case wouldn't be a violation, since it is only a guideline not a law. Your message on my talk page and your last message here look to me totally disingenuous, but maybe I'm just assuming too much bad faith? BTW, I leave edit summaries when I think fit and when I remember to, and don't consider it a priority. You do, so all praise to you. Maybe some day I'll integrate it more into my editing, but this will happen independently of you throwing guidelines at me as if they are orders. Calgacus (ΚΑΛΓΑΚΟΣ) 21:41, 11 March: 2007 (UTC)

I'm realy sorry for offending you. In no way I was giving you orders, it's was polite request as word "please" was used. JFYI, edit summaries are part of even Wikipedia:Simplified Ruleset. --TAG 22:02, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

You haven't offended me, but thanks anyways for your apology. Surely, though, you realise that it is difficult to interpret giving messages like that to experienced users as something done in good faith. If you don't believe, do it to other users and you'll probably find out for yourself. I'll try and remember to put edit summaries anytime I edit anything which might be on your watchlist though. Regards, Calgacus (ΚΑΛΓΑΚΟΣ) 22:10, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Don't get me wrong. Wikipedia has articles for everything - even for Wikipedia:Assume good faith ;-) BTW, there are option in Special:Preferences in Editing section that will "Prompt you when entering a blank edit summary" - it will greatly help - even I sometimes forget to specify them before clicking "Save" ;-) Thanks in advance ! --TAG 22:19, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Butting in by request. Ukraine is too an obscure place in the world for many of its placenames to have established English names, if this is the question. Those few are Ukraine itself, Dnieper, Transcarpathia, Volhynia, Galicia, Crimea, perhaps a couple of more. As for the cities, of all the Oblast centers, the only non-obscure enough to have an English name established well enough, as to be not (perhaps not yet) affected by the push attempted by UA gov, are Kiev and Odessa. Of non-Oblast centers Eupatoria comes to mind but this one rarely inflame matters because it is no closer to Russian than to Ukrainian. Used to be Theodosia and Sebastopol but not anymore if you check the media usage.

As such, and as per primary English media usage, all the English names are the Ukrainian ones properly transliterated, save Odessa and Kiev. As per this I oppose Kyivization but initiated the moves of Kharkiv and Luhansk to their current locations. This is of course speaking about the modern context. In historic context, other names established in the literature for such context kick in, like Battle of Kharkov in WW2 context and Kijow and Lwow voivodships in PLC context. But articles are titled per modern usage. So, I believe that for all oblasts centers, the english_name field in the infobox is redundant except of Kiev and Odessa. --Irpen 04:36, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

I'm really sorry, I would like to not discuss this matter. I would like to keep neutrality. I've my own personal opinion and I'm fine with it been my personal and not widely accepted by Wikipedians or entire population of Earth. I've not caused any conflicts in the past and would like to refrain from initiating or participating in them in future. Remember - in order to fight in war - you don't have to be on battlefield, somebody has to work on factory producing weaponry. I would like to work on providing base information about Ukraine, it's culture and people or any others topics. I leave fight on WP:NPOV battlefield to specially trained or expirienced in this people ;-) Thanks for understanding. --TAG 11:03, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Those are sentiments I can definitely respect TAG ... thanks for the info about the user options. WP:AGF is not generally my most respected guideline; whether that's a virtue or a vice I've yet to decide. Sorry for reverting you on my talk page. Regards, Calgacus (ΚΑΛΓΑΚΟΣ) 17:37, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Hryhory Nestor claim

[edit] Hryhoriy Nestor http://wiadomosci.onet.pl/1503676,69,item.html and http://svet.ihned.cz/c4-10030270-20496470-003100_d-za-mocnarstvi-se-na-ukrajine-zilo-nejlip —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 83.30.183.72 (talk) 10:06, 16 March 2007 (UTC).

Please note that the Nestor camp have been given opportunity to submit documentation on his claim, but have not yet done so.→ R Young {yakłtalk} 03:56, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

According to www.ami-tass.ru records were filled to Guinness World Records. But even without this - Wikipedia is not a publisher of Guinness Records, as those seems to be incorrect sometimes. --TAG 16:44, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

TAG, newspapers can report whatever they choose, and they choose to report what creates controversy. Guinness World Records is accurate far more often than the mere newspaper claim. However, if you don't like Guinness, the scientific community (with experts such as Louis Epstein)

http://www.recordholders.org/en/list/oldest.html

have given a 'thumbs down' to this claim. Documents issued AFTER 1991 do not prove birth in 1891. Has it occurred to you that this case MIGHT NOT be true? Or are you believing it simply due to nationalist pride?→ R Young {yakłtalk} 02:51, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Looking at the worldwide claims list,

Moloko Temo of South Africa claims birth July 4, 1874 Habib Miyan of India claims birth May 22, 1878 Maria Olivia da Silva of Brazil claims birth Feb 28, 1880 Tsunyelo Dora Muzila of South Africa claims birth May 4, 1880 Du Pinhua of China claims birth Apr 22 1886 Alberto Yoip of Cuba claims birth May 12 1886 Noninji Elizabeth Bete of South Africa claims birth May 21 1886 Ida Stewart of Jamaica claims birth Nov 5 1886 Józef Piotrowski of Poland claims birth Sept 8 1887 Emma Begay of Gallup, New Mexico claims birth Nov 3 1887 Pearl Gartrell of Jacksonville, Florida claims birth Apr 1 1888 LaJean Smith of Arkansas claims birth June 23 1889 Floripes Luzia Damasio of Brazil claims birth Dec 13 1889 Clara MacLeash of Jamaica claims birth Jan 1 1890 Katie Bruce of Saint Louis, Missouri claims birth Mar 11 1890 Maria Strelnikova of Russia claims birth Mar 15 1890 Pa Igboezu Asoegwu of Nigeria claims birth April 20 1890 Khabibamal Khamitova of Russia claims birth July 1 1890 Baji Safaorva of Azerbaijan claims birth July 3 1890 Manuel Alvarez of Cuba claims birth Sept 15 1890 Hryhoriy Nestor of Ukraine claims birth Mar 15 1891 Elias Athanasiades of Greece (born Turkey) claims birth May 14 1891 Clementina Rodriguez Quiros of Panama claims birth Nov 13 1891 Angel Alberto Rengifo Cerqura of Colombia claims birth Dec 31 1891 Rebecca Lanier of Ohio claims birth Mar 24 1892 Carmen Catrileo Hualla of Chile claims birth July 18 1892 Marie Ribet Davis of Cuba claims birth Dec 10 1892 Elizabeth Johnson of Mississippi claims birth Dec 25 1892 Ellen Spencer of Jamaica claims birth Jan 3 1893

we can see that unvalidated claims come in from around the world, including the U.S. However, simply because one claims to be a certain age doesn't mean they are. It only takes one in several tens of million persons to exaggerate to create results such as that above.

The oldest verifiable person currently is Yone Minagawa of Japan, born Jan 4 1893.→ R Young {^yakł_talk} 03:10, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

It's oldest verified by Guinness World Records. For example take a look on case of Leonid Stadnyk. Height is so easy to verify compared to age - but Guinness still claim as fact that tallest person in the world is different one. In my opinion - our president] will NOT participate in scam. So - I wish it was mentioned in Hryhoriy Nestor article in NPOV way that Guinness does not recognize record - but some others sources - do. Only facts. Speculations about validity of claims must be outside article. --TAG 14:29, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Think your president isn't biased? Please. Politicians LOVE to give certificates to 'oldest' persons, it's like hugging babies. Who would be against hugging babies? Who would be against a '120' year' old woman? We have seen cases like these even in the U.S. Every country on Earth does it.

As for Guinness, they have stated that Mr. Stadnyk refuses to be measured. If it is so easy why doesn't he go to a neutral, third-party country to be measured? Hmmm....→ R Young {^yakł_talk} 04:47, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. I've understand your opinion - but I would like to keep mine. It was all about Guinness state something as world-wide fact - then it's not. And Wikipedia editors agree only with this commercial entity. He was measured by independent from him entity! If you and Guinness cast doubt on this - his location is well-known - it's needed only one spy/detective to override his claim. BTW, sorry for confusing you - but our president is on photo with one of tallest persons - not oldest one. --TAG 11:57, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Христосъ Воскресе!

Ура! :) --Irpen

Счастья и радости! --Irpen

Sorry. I'm an atheist. --TAG 22:02, 8 April 2007 (UTC)