Talk:Systema

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You have new messages (last change).

Contents

[edit] History

I'm just going to ramble on a little bit. If some of this is useful for a main topic somewhere, then there is where it should go. Bits could probably go into Russian martial arts.

(some notes were absorbed into Russian martial arts)

  • Many would argue that the communist machine researched and developed Systema from thin air, or from pieces of many other ideas and arts. There is quite a lot of history which reveals that this kind of research has happened. The example most in the limelight is Sambo, which was recently confirmed to have roots with old Judo (and vice versa with Sport Judo having influences by Sambo)
  • History is a difficult thing to research because of the newness of Russia in the global community. Foreign access to research tools was very limited. On top of that, the best history is always written in the native language.

Interesting points:

  • There is an interesting "sameness" to the cultural nuances and martial practices of a number of russian martial arts. This is a spectacular coincidence, or it is evidence of a cultural heritage which many arts share.
  • Interestingly, breathing practices have been likened to those found in areas of the old russian orthodox church. It is said that they perfected the techniques.
  • There are many interesting historical tidbits to be found within religious works. In old russian, communities formed first around the church. Like elsewhere, scholarship and literacy in general was focused there as well.

Well.. just noting some thoughts.. anyone can feel free to add, or be bold and make better use of these notes.

-- Sy / (talk)

[edit] Pronnouncing

's' as in set
'ee' but short
's' as in set
't' as in Tet
'e' 'Yay!' but short 
 m 'm' as in 'met' 
 a 'Ah!' but short

[edit] Popov's System, and categorizing the various arts

Popov's System appears to be completely unrelated to Systema. While a special forces art and a russian martial art, it doesn't seem to share any of the history of the other arts described in this article. Maybe I'm wrong and that article needs to be fleshed out a bit.

It's likely that in the future things would have to be clarified, to describe the various arts in the Russian military's past and present. Quite a number of arts seem to have been trained throughout the military and special forces. The Soviet military machine seems to have had interest in using pieces of arts for specific units or circumstances, and to have experimented with combinations.

There seem to be a number of themes:

  • Styles which have roots in ancient styles but may have evolved for various reasons
    • Systema (family, evolved by the Soviet military)
  • Arts which were manufactured from scratch from pieces of other arts
    • Sambo, Combat Sambo, etc (Judo, russian styles, etc)

Now the distinction I have between what's being called "Systema" here and Popov's style might only be minor. Maybe Systema is a good category for these types of arts, but this would mean that a lot of the content here would need to be migrated to Ryabko's Systema to make things more generic. Ryabko's Systema in particular is reaching back to its old roots. I don't know what can be said about the other styles.

One thing I wanted to stress was that there are various arts of various names with various histories throughout the russian military and even throughout special forces units. Things cannot be easily lumped together. Maybe everything needs "Russian martial arts" as a top-level category, and traditional arts need their own category.

-- Sy / (talk) 16:05, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Citation template

I have placed the template on this page because it is lacking sources. Please do not construe this as an attack upon the knowledge-bases of those who have contributed towards the page; it is because I believe that forcing references on a page not only improves its validity, but may even cause authors to find further information that is relevant to the subject. Besides this, it can bring in external links that act as a portal for those looking into the subject.

In short, they make an article much more useful.

-- Sasuke Sarutobi 17:54, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

Good point. I've also added it to Ryabko's Systema. For that page, there is an English-language booklet and book by Vladimir Vasiliev. There is some media exposure etc. I'll need to research how citation works, and how it works here. -- Sy / (talk) 22:47, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

The problem is Ryabko's stuff can be cited, but Systema generally is harder to cite, largely because most of the Kod. stuff is still largely in Russian and not a exsposed to the west. --Mista-X 22:37, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Flow Fighting?

Why is Scott Sonnon's Flow Fighting listed as being infuenced by Kadochnikov's Systema? according to Scott Sonnon here, his techniques have nothing to do with Systema, at one point, he says: "I have no idea what any Systema teaches, and frankly I don't care". He says many other things about Systema, and his style in that interview. So apparantly, Scott Sonnon's system is not in any way linked to Systema (according to him). So I will remove "Flow Fighting" from the infuenced by Kadochnikov's Systema section.. 70.17.132.73 04:22, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

At one point, someone was claiming Sonnon was the influence for Systema, I have also read from sources that Sonnon was the first to be taught ROSS in the United States, but in reality I don't know much about who Sonnon really is, what he teaches, etc. So unless real sources are provided it should be kept away from this article. --Mista-X 06:04, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Removal of external links

I have removed links to Google and Youtube search results as per WP:EL. The section "Links normally to be avoided" includes the following:

10. Links to search engine results.

Linking to Youtube content is also questionable under the following guideline:

11. Links to sites that violate the copyrights of others per contributors' rights and obligations. Sites which fail to provide licensing information or to respond to requests for licensing information should not be used. (Knowingly and intentionally directing others to a site that violates copyright has been considered a form of contributory infringement in the United States.)

Videos on Youtube rarely indicate copyright information, and many are undoubtedly infringing on copyrights. fbb_fan 16:47, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org../../../s/y/s/Talk%7ESystema_259e.html"