Talk:Symphonie Fantastique
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[edit] References?
What is the sourcing for the statement that "Leonard Bernstein called Symphonie Fantastique the first musical expedition into psychedelia"? And was it a direct quote by Bernstein? If so, "the first musical expedition into psychedelia" should be in quotation marks.
- Here is your reference -- a script from Bernstein's Young Persons Concerts http://www.leonardbernstein.com/studio/element2.asp?id=383 DavidRF 04:05, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
"Vulgar"?
I'm curious to know who called the second movement "vulgar". Without a reference, I think this sentence should be removed. --Todeswalzer 22:09, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
- The second movement is a waltz, which was a bit of a risque dance for this early in the romantic era. Symphonies of this time period had Scherzos (or earlier they had Minuets) but they didn't have Waltzes. "Vulgar" is in Berlioz's program notes, but for the shrilly clarinet version of the idee fixe in the final movement. Perhaps there was some confusion with the quote? DavidRF 04:01, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
The phrase runs like this:
- While one critic called it "vulgar", the intent was to portray a single lonely soul amidst gaiety, as Berlioz wrote while composing it.
The issue is that it merely says "one critic" -- my question is, who said that and what is the source? --Todeswalzer|Talk 23:10, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Berlioz's Program Notes
Berlioz's own program notes should really be incorporated into this article. They are pretty easy to find on the web by googling 'symphonie fantastique program'. DavidRF 04:02, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
idée fixe
"again, derived from the idée fixe" - this appears to be the only sentence concerning the idée fixe and no further explanation is given. Most strange.
- Good point. The article looks like it was clipped together from many other program notes and no one read the whole thing to make sure that it makes sense. The idee fixe ("fixed idea" or obsessive musical thought) is a melody that recurs throughout the work. It represents the main character's unrequited love. Its introduced about five minutes into the first movement and developed extensively there. It recurs in each of the remaining movements. It greatly increases the enjoyment of the piece if one understands its meaning, (yet I'll admit it took a while for the concept to catch on with me). Anyhow, if some with better writing skills could pound the idea of the idee fixe home in this article that would be great. Or perhaps the original Berlioz program notes could be included! (see above) They were written in 1830, they can't still be under copyright. DavidRF 16:39, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Importance of contemporary interpretations
Basil Twist's recent new performance based on the score of Symphonie Fantastique was a widely acclaimed and award winning new production that seems to me a relevant notation about the original composition. It shows its relevance today and seems to me similar to other entries on contemporary theatre and its historical roots. Please do explain why this doesn't seem a relevant addition. Should it be shorter (perhaps removing the theatres performed in)? Or is there something else at issue? -Flippedout 06:35, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
- Well, maybe it should stay in, but it certainly needs to be rewritten: as it stands, it reads like a marketing piece by the producers. Would be nice to make it a bit more, as they say, encyclopedic. +ILike2BeAnonymous 18:36, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
[edit] L'Idée fixe
I would like to incorporate some discussion on the Idée fixe, in part by reproducing the theme as a musical notation file in the article; however, the complete theme itself runs to 40 measures in length and I'm concerned that it's too large. This is it:
Either way, the theme -- as a most original (and influential) idea, not to mention its role in holding the symphony together -- deserves a more detailed discussion on this page. Comments would be most welcome. --Todeswalzer|Talk 07:05, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
- You could clip it at measure 33 and call it enough, since that's the salient part of the theme, maybe indicate the remainder with ellipsis. Anyway, I wouldn't be against including it.
- You could also just shrink it down and make it into a thumbnail "teaser" that the user could click on to see full-size.
- And what about including permutations of the idée, such as near the end of the "ball"?
- By the way, I'm curious: how do you produce that? Finale? Coda? +ILike2BeAnonymous 08:05, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
I think what I might do is include as a full graphic everything up to the first half of measure 16, use an elipsis to indicate that more follows, and include a link to the full theme somewhere near-by. My only concern with this is that it would cut out the whole middle section, which seems -- to me anyway -- to represent the feeling of longing and forlorness, something which no doubt would come up elsewhere in the article. (However, regardless of where we cut the theme off, it would probably be a good idea as well to include an audio file of it in its entirety)
With regard to the various permutations of the Idée which appear throughout the symphony, I would also like to include them in the sections discussing their respective movements, such as the Waltz theme and the variation that appears in the fifth movement. (I only have the score for the fifth movement, so the other parts won't be immediately available.) Also, I need to verify that the Idée is in fact first introduced in C major, which is the key I've used to represent it in my notation file. (And as for your question, ILike2BeAnonymous, I did in fact use Finale to create the notation file: it's an excellent program. Leave me a message on my talk page if you'd like some more information...) --Todeswalzer|Talk 18:56, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
