Talk:Sydney Harbour Bridge

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Portal	Sydney Harbour Bridge is maintained by WikiProject Australia, which aims to improve Wikipedia's coverage of Australia and Australia-related topics. If you would like to participate, visit the project page.
B	This article has been rated as B-class on the quality scale.
High	This article has been rated as high-importance on the importance scale.
	This article is supported by WikiProject Sydney.
Assessment comments The following comments were left by the assessors: (edit · refresh) To get to A class the number of references should be expanded. Past that the FA would require thorough reworking of the layout (image placement and the structure of paragraphs within some sections)

[edit] Odd assertion

The wikipedia entry for the New York Hell's Gate Bridge makes the following rather odd statement about the Sydney Harbour Brodge:

" (The Hells Gate Bridge) May still be the world's strongest steel arch bridge, though the steel arch Sydney Harbour Bridge, which is believed to have been based on or inspired by the Hell Gate Bridge, has been reinforced since the World Trade Center attack in 2001. "

Is there any basis for this ? It looks like rubbish to me. As far as I know, except for the addition of or numerous under-employed Arab security guards to annoy pedestrians and cyclists, the Sydney Harbour Bridge has had no recent modifications at all. Merkanmich 11:35, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Also, someone has added the following odd statement: "The western side being 305mm larger that the east side." Is this supposed to mean the bridge is slightly longer on the western side, or does it mean that the western walkway ( used as a cycleway ), is 305mm wider than the eastern walkway ?? Eregli bob 07:32, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Problem with dates

I did an assignment recently on the Harbour Bridge and I noticed that some of the dates mentioned don't match up with those on the official site. I think the author should take a look at the official site and compare because someone is wrong.

Could you please be more specific? Arno 00:49, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] What Bridge?

See the article (opening of bridge) - I believe that it was the Bayonne Bridge that you are referring to. Arno

Indeed, the Bayonne bridge is longer by less than the diameter of the support hinges at each end, but is considerably narrower. RoscoHead 00:43, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Photo

All of this description and no photos? Anybody got a good pic of the Sydney Harbour Bridge they can upload here? KJ

I don't even knpw how to load an image, at leats not yet. As for a picture, perhaps something from a NSW tourist site? Arno

A followup answer: Try http://community.webshots.com/photo/4625974/4776846oBjrsCTTov. This is a photo downloading site, so no copyright problems should exist. But placing it in is something I cannot do; you'll need to do it yourself.

Aaaagh, no! (Oh, very funny, I've finally twigged onto this! Arno 02:13, 26 Jan 2005 (UTC)) "© 1995-2003 Twofold Photos, Inc. All rights reserved. Terms of Use | Privacy Statement" ... "All of the material on the Webshots Site is protected by the copyright laws of the U. S. and other countries. You are only allowed to use these materials as indicated on the Webshots site; other uses are prohibited by copyright laws." Please, DO NOT use any photos from that website here without the express permission of the individual owner of the particular photo. --Brion 07:01 Jan 20, 2003 (UTC)

Oops, I missed that bit. Back to the drawing board, perhaps another search through www.ditto.com may help. Arno

A look at the Sydney Opera House discussion page has revealed this page: http://chmouel.com/web/index.php?/gallery/new_zealand/html/index4.html. The image of the SOH came from there, so perhaps the owner (User:Chmouel) will be happy with us using the shot of the bridge as well..

No problem at all you are free to use it like you want, please send me email if you want much faster answer (User:Chmouel)

Anywhere we might be able to get a pic of end of 2005 fireworks? I think that would be a better photo. Rmccue 04:21, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Coathanger

I don't doubt you, 203. "Coathanger" is (IMO) a dumb nane for it. It's quite common in other states though, sort of half-joking, half derogatory. Actually, I'd just as soon delete the whole para, but someone would revert me. Tannin

Does anyone actually know anyone from sydney who calls it the coathanger? As a sydneysider of 19 years I've yet to meet one person who has called it the 'coathanger'. The only references I've found to this name have been in overseas publications (National Geographic among others).

I second that. As a fellow Aussie I have never once heard it. Except in the the sentence:'...roughly coathanger shaped...' I vote we remove it.202.63.51.171 04:17, 1 January 2006 (UTC)(sorry forgot to log in)Rmccue 04:18, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

You've gotta be kidding me... I call it the Coathanger, and I'm (fairly) local. It's more of an affectionate thing, really. - 220.237.30.150 10:41, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

Iv'e spent I lot of time in Sydney and the region and the only time iv'e heard it being call the coathanger is in overseas magazines. 58.178.93.152 00:15, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

My father, aged 70, and a Sydney resident all his life often calls it the coathanger, and I recall the term being used in the local media numerous times over the past few decades. The unfamiliarity of the usage by editors above probably has more to do with age than anything else; younger people seem not to use it, while older generations did, and do. A reflection of the homogenisation of Australian slang under global influences, perhaps. --Centauri 00:27, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

I am in agreement with Centauri. It is a term which has been used, is in use, and will continue to be used as a term to describe the Sydney Harbour Bridge. As such, it should be retained in the article. I have heard the term used countless times myself, so I believe that it adds value to the article by noting it.

--Lucanos 16:50, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

I know that I am abit behind the times here. I have found a local source for the coathanger and it has now been added as a ref. Todd661 02:50, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Images

Image:Australia sydney-bridge.jpeg was removed from the article, because I didn't like it. I don't know if anyone wants to do something with it, but I think one image is enough for the main article. -- Tim Starling 02:36 21 Jul 2003 (UTC)

Well, one shot of this kind. It might be nice to have a few different types: e.g. half-constructed, roadway, maybe even with fireworks. -- Tim Starling 02:38 21 Jul 2003 (UTC)

Agreed, but where does one get them from? Arno 07:24, 16 Feb 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Hells Gate and Parliament

A few things.

What evidence is there is that the SBH was based on the Hell's Gate bridge? This sounds speculative to me, even with the "It is now believed" in front. The only source that I was able to detect on the Internet is this one this one and it really is not very authoritive or substantial.

Update : A followup search unearthed this. But its still not quite strong enough to be evidence. Arno 08:11, 1 Jun 2004 (UTC)

The NSW Government passed those laws through its parliament. The use of the term government rather than parliament makes this clearer. Arno 08:03, 31 May 2004 (UTC)

The Hell Gate bridge was completed in 1916. At the time it was considered a major enginering marvel. Bradfield designed the Sydney bridge in 1916. I would think it inconceivable that he wasn't aware of the Hell Gate Bridge, and that this almost wholly influenced his design. --Centauri 06:00, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

The exhibit on the SHB's construction in its southeast pylon (where you can walk to the top) plainly states that Bradfield toured Europe and the U.S. looking at bridges and was impressed by the Hell Gate Bridge, and chose that design for a) load capacity and b) impressive looks. Found a link that talks about it with a bit more detail. Carl Lindberg 03:38, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] James Michener

' "To get on in Australia, you must make two observations. Say, "You have the most beautiful bridge in the world" and "They tell me you trounced England again in the cricket." The first statement will be a lie. '

Sadly the second remains true even 50+ years on...!

Oh well, you are entitled to your opinion.Arno 02:14, 26 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Not anymore, I hate to admit.

[edit] Width

This article seems confused about the width of the bridge. At one point it says:

At 48.8m wide, it is listed by Guinness World Records as the widest bridge in the world.

It then goes on to say:

The bridge deck portion of the highway is 17.4 metres wide , and 1.149 km long.

Even if the 'bridge deck portion of the highway' referes only to the original 6 lane road portion of the bridge (ie. excluding the rail tracks, the tram tracks later converted into two extra road lanes, the footpath and cyclepath) 17.4m seems narrow at less than 3m per lane. And 31.4m (48.8 - 17.4) seems wide for the rest of the bridge. In the absence of an explanation as to exactly is meant by the 'bridge deck portion of the highway, I have removed the reference to 17.4 metres width. -- Chris j wood 21:06, 12 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I'll need to check this out, Chris. I didn't add that Guiness World records bit, but that other figure came from a source that I'll check. Arno 02:13, 26 Jan 2005 (UTC)

OK, the width is in fact 49 m long. The road part of it is 17.4 m. So you did the right thing, an error did get removed. Arno 04:57, 7 Feb 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Infobox

I juggled that glorious night panorama around a bit, but it still over-wrote the infobox no matter where it was placed in the lead section, and as the rest of the article was studded with photographs, I eventually moved it right down to the quotes, where it seemed to fit in. --Jumbo 21:46, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Climbing the bridge

I think there should be a section added about climbing the bridge. There is only a very small bit of information throughout the article about it. Also if someone does add the section, I'd like to know if you are allowed to take personal cameras when you climb, as I'm visiting Australia in about one week, and I already has a bridge climb booked. I expect you're not allowed, as there are very few photos from the top of the bridge, and if you dropped a camera from that height it could do alot of damage, but imagine the photos you could get!

No, they don't let you take cameras up. They don't let you take anything up. You do have your photo taken at the top of the bridge, looking east, and you can purchase this photo at the end of the climb. -- Saberwyn 12:29, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

Actually, the guide takes many photos along the way. At the top, a group photo is taken which is provided free of charge at the end of the tour. The others may be purchased for far too much money. Pbones 16:12, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Adding photo

A few days ago, I took a (in my opinion) sweet photo of the Bridge, with the Opera House and the city in the background. Because I work at Luna Park Sydney, I was able to get up on our ferris wheel to take the shot. Is there anywhere I can put it so other users can consider it for incusion in this article? -- Saberwyn 12:41, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

Hi Saberwyn. Have you considered opening a Wikimedia Commons account? The first steps help file and FAQ should help you once you register - they explain how to upload files and how to license them for use on Wikimedia projects. Once you've uploaded your photo there, post a link to it here if you want us to have a look at. Or better still, just put it in the Harbour Bridge article yourself! - Gobeirne 05:40, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

Hello again. I've just noticed you're an experienced editor who's uploaded a heap of photos before - sorry for the newby-condescension tone! In that case, just shove the photo in the article and let's see what happens! :) - Gobeirne 05:53, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

Hi I also have a photo which is also a little bit sweet - if anyone thinks it worthwhile (actuarial disco boy) 9:36 (AEST) 21 May 06
Image:Sydney_harbour_bridge_dawn.jpg

[edit] Hells Gate and SHB

The SHB was actually based on the Tyne bridge in Newcastle-upon-Tyne, England, also built by Dorman Long of Middlesbrough. The Tynw bridge was built in 1929 with the SHB opened in 1932. The Tyne bridge was based upon the design of the Hells gate bridge, so in a way SHB was based on Hells gate also, if not directly dj_paul84 23:35 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Nonsense. The Sydney Harbour Bridge was designed by John Bradfield in 1916 - the same year the Hell Gate Bridge opened - although actual construction was delayed due to WW1, commencing in 1922. The Hell Gate Bridge was a major international engineering achievement, and Brafieled would certainly have known of it. The Tyne Bridge was designed in 1924, and was probably influenced by both the Hell Gate and Sydney designs - although it actually looks more like the Bayonne Bridge than either of them. --Centauri 00:10, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Trivia?

Dunno if it counts as trivia, but related: I once built a replica of SHB in LEGO bricks - http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?i=192403 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by RoscoHead (talk • contribs).

Different trivia. I've heard some people refer to the rightmost lane of traffic travelling in each direction as the "lane of death" (because of its closeness to traffic coming in the other direction, and perceived risk of collision). Is this common usage or just something one of my friends thought up? Paddles ^T_C 12:06, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Don't think it's common knowledge. I've never heard anybody calling it that and certainly not these days anyway. It's certainly a perceived risk of collision more than anything anyway. --Stephen Mok (in Sydney) 12:55, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

I've certainly heard the middle lanes referred to as the "death lanes" for the reasons mentioned above. I've also heard and seen such terms used in the media many times over the years. --Centauri 13:01, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

It's not like it's the only road with fast moving traffic going in different directions. A head-on can happen anywhere. Yes, a perceived risk indeed. --Merbabu 13:16, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Of course not - but the point is that the term is used specifically with reference to this Bridge. --Centauri 23:53, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

It's not that bad. I've done a u-turn on it without being killed (was accidently heading back into the city... country driver's shouldn't come past Goulburn really!)Ga rr ie 02:31, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Where is 'Hoges' NO mention is made of the bridges most famous rigger, Paul Hogan. Its worth a mention , I suggest.

[edit] Ebbw Vale controversy

The page on Ebbw Vale in says that its steel built the bridge yet here it says most came from Middlesborough and the rest was sourced locally. Can somebody clear up this contradiction?-163.1.223.30 13:19, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bridgebuilder nationality

The design bears a marked resemblance to that of the New York Hell Gate Bridge. Its design was later used as a basis for the Tyne Bridge in Newcastle upon Tyne, England. The bridge itself is built from 95% British steel by a British workforce[citation needed].

Wasn't it built during the depression in part to provide capital works jobs for Australians? I thought most of the workforce were locals even if the design/management/engineering team were British.

Ga rr ie 02:29, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

I think the "British workforce" is supposed to refer to the manufacturers of the steel, not the construction of the bridge itself, which was carried out by Australians. --Centauri 06:14, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Of course all this talk and possible argument about a "British" workforce or "British" steel is all a bit silly as at least 90% of Australians at that time regarded themselves as proud patriotic members of the great British Empire-that many were soon to die for- and proud subjects of their King -George V-indeed since virtually the whole population turned out to cheer QE II on her visit in 1954 the Aussies were proudly British until quite recently.Nowadays they keep talking about "finding their identity" What a wonderful happy country Australia used to be.....Aberdale

The figures regarding steel (95%) are wrong. I've deleted this as the correct numbers are already given later in the article. (www.sydneyharbourbridge.info is one online reference. I have seen the correct ratio 79% British, 21% Australian in many hardcopy publications also.

Also, the claim that it was the basis for the Tyne Bridge is tenuous. The Tyne Bridge was opened in 1928, four years before the SHB. I think it more likely that the Bayonne Bridge was the basis for the Tyne Bridge. I've deleted this claim, unless someone can back it up with a reference. -- Sulvo 12:51, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Actually it's a very well-known link - the same UK engineering company (Dorman & Long) was involved in the design and construction of both the SHB and Tyne bridge. Don't forget that the SHB was designed in 1916 - years before the Tyne Bridge. --Centauri 11:33, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

from http://www.bbc.co.uk/insideout/northeast/series3/tyne_bridge_northeasthistory.shtml

this BBC website says the SHB provided the template for the Tyne Bridge...

"The Tyne Bridge was designed by Mott, Hay and Anderson who based their design on the Sydney Harbour Bridge."

Also from the same site:

"Work started on the Sydney Bridge before building began on the Tyne Bridge.

The confusion arises because the Sydney Harbour Bridge took longer to complete due to its larger size.

The Sydney Harbour Bridge finally opened in 1932, three years after the Tyne Bridge." - Maudlingothic 05:18, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Inconsistancies regarding source of steel

Para 3 of the lead section states

The bridge itself is built from 95% British steel.

Para 7 section 1 states

The steel used for the bridge was largely imported. About 79% came from Middlesbrough in the North East of England, the rest was Australian-made

Clearly one of these statements are wrong but neither of them is explicitly referenced.

Ga rr ie 22:11, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

Yes, Garrie, the 79/21 proportions are correct. Although to say that the steel actually came from Middlesbrough may not be true. Certainly, Dorman Long and Co who built the bridge were from Middlesbrough, but I've not heard that the steel itself came from that particular part of Britain. -- Sulvo 12:56, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

But perhaps the proportions might reach 95% if the weight of the huge numbers of rivets made in another part of the UK were added as a separate item?

Yes Sulvo, the steel was made in Middlesbrough, as that is whts Middlesbrough is famous for, its Steel and Iron production (Ironopolis). Middlesbrough had 1/3 of the nations Iron stone deposit n the Cleveland hills and at one point was the world leader in Steel production. Over 30 blast furnaces were stuated in the Middlesbrough district alone dj_paul84 20:34 16 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] NYE

Would it be a good idea if we put a list of NYE displays on the bridge here,or would go in New Years Eve or the New Years Day/New Year if mergered? Nathannoblet 10:51, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Interesting article

For anyone interested: There's an article in this weekend's Sydney Morning Herald. Click here: [1]. It talks a bit about the history, and also about a seemingly lavish new book on the bridge. --Merbabu 02:35, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 18-Mar-07 Bridgewalk

I will be participating in the deck bridgewalk on the 18th of March (the one mentioned in the Celebrations section of the article. Are there any particular photographs editors would like me to try and get while walking across/ -- saberwyn 05:17, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Just snap away and put a few of your best pics into the gallery at the bottom of the article. If any are particularly pertinent, they can be incorporated.

--Amandajm 10:41, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org../../../s/y/d/Talk%7ESydney_Harbour_Bridge_5057.html"