Talk:Sweat lodge

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View comments (edit) Reliable Sources I believe the page on Sweat Lodge is very accurate, and well written in the tone appropriate to the content. The information about sweat lodge is an ORAL TRADITION that has been building for more than 10,000 years (40,000 if you include rest-of-world. Many lodges are built acording to the traditions of many teachers and many tribes, each of which may be considered equally reliable. If the article is to be improved by being more complete we might include references to Lakota and Cherokee traditions and even Mongolian. About nudity, it can be easily misunderstood by outsiders. Normally we sweat with the men wearing shorts and the women wearing loose dresses. Sometimes I sweat nude with the men, and my wife sweats nude with the women, and only in places with lots of privacy around. RoyCout 15:47, 13 March 2007

Didn't anybody realize that this article, apart from displaying very little actual knowledge about traditional ceremonial sweat lodges, was completely plagarized? Im fixing it. MrPMonday 01:35, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

The Sweat lodge article was not plagiarism, at least not in the way you think. If you check the Internet archive [1] the Crystal Links site did not have the text of this article at the time it appeared in Wikipedia. They apparently took what I had written and added it to their site. What I wrote was rewritten from content on a number of other sites. You have added information which you say is based on your own experience. We have to be careful about this. Editing guidelines explicitly forbid using original research. I would be particularly cautious about suggesting that there is only one type of sweat lodge and one set of practises. --Lee Hunter 21:19, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

What Im writing should at least be added with the the indication that some traditions follow these methods. Many of the features ot the article are vague, and Im offering clarifications and expansions. For example: "Orientation -- The location of the door may be based on the purpose of the sweat lodge" doesnt really tell the reader much, but "In some traditions the lodge is often placed with the door facing the east, the direction signifying, in many traditions, rebirth and new beginnings. The ceremonial fire is directly to the east of the door, and is connected to the lodge by a symbolic pathway. During the ceremony this patway can only be crossed by the firekeeper.", from a previous edit, tells readers more. Granted I did not originally qualify that this was not the only way the ceremony is done in the world, but it allows the reader a little more informaiton on what actually does happen in a sweat lodge ceremony. Yurts are not North American structures, and they serve different purposes, thus they are not related to sweat lodges. Dog soldiers are military warriors, I have found no mention to them as lodge supporters. Most traditions have a formal firekeeper to tend the fire. I incorporated a lot of the information you keep reverting, but some of it needs attention. You should probably consider removing the source that says exactly what you did... it doesnt look good... like plagarism actually. And you should list your original sources. MrPMonday 22:56, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Temperature

I've been in a sweat lodge and I've been in a sauna, and they're very different in terms of temperature. I've only been in each once and they were widely spaced so I'm not a valid source for this but I'd like some mention to be made that this isn't just your standard sauna if anyone has better information than me. A person that could bring a thermometor to both would be ideal. Vicarious 11:53, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

I would not say that temperature is a significant item. The importance is not to say exactly how hot is either a sauna or a sweat lodge, because they both cover a wide range. One important reason to mention the sauna is that the sauna is the closest thing to a lodge that most people will recognize. Another is that they both hold similar positions in the culture. The lodge and the sauna are very old, traditional ways to generate steam and clean off a person's body. We might as well make a comparison to a bath or shower, but they are so recent that by comparison they can be considered fads. [Roy C, 13 March 2007]

[edit] Nudity and sprituality

Although the article is fairly acurate for the most part, I had a problem with the section pointing to nude cerimonies as a morak of "fradulent" spritual practice. I am not expert on American Indian traditions, but i do know that the sweat lodge is not unique to the Americans, and has been an indegenious spritual practice aroudn the world. Many of the cultures practicing sweat cerimonies embrace nudity, turning away from the false modesty/sex dichotomy. While it may be true that some Native American traditions stress modesty, it is certinaly NOT ubiquitious, is the American tradition the only source to draw upon when creating a sweat cerimony.

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A traditional Sweat Lodge is made up of slender withes of aspen or willow, or other supple saplings, lashed together with raw hide, or grass or root cordage. Traditionally, a sweat lodge was covered with the hides of buffalo, bear or moose. Now, the animal skins have been replaced with blankets, plastic sheeting, old carpet, heavy gauge canvas sheets and tarps to retain the heat and the steam. The entrance to the sweat lodge usually faces to the East and the sacred fire pit.

The ceremony starts with the loading and offering of the "peace pipe" in prayer. A sweat is typically four rounds or endurances, each lasting about 30 to 45 minutes. The round ends when the leader announces the opening of the door. The first round is for recognition of the spirit world which resides in the black west where the sun goes down, and the Creator may be asked for a "spirit guide" by some of the participants. The second round is for recognition of courage, endurance, strength, cleanliness, and honesty, calling upon the power of the white North. The third round is the recognition of knowledge and individual prayer, praying to the direction of the daybreak star and the rising sun that we may gain wisdom, that we may follow the Red Road of the East in all our endeavors. The last round centers on spiritual growth and healing. From our spirit guides from the west, from the courage, honesty and endurance of the north, from the knowledge and wisdom obtained from the east, we continue the circle to the south from which comes growth. It is from growth and maturing that healing comes. At anytime during the sweat you must leave, say "Mitakuye Oyasin" (All my relatives). The other participants will move away from the wall so that you may pass behind them as you leave in a clockwise direction. The first stone is placed in the west part of a small hole in the center of the lodge, then north, east, south, and in the center to Grandfather. Additional stones are then placed to Grandmother and The People.

Some protocol for a sweat is; during a woman’s “moon time” they refrain from participating in the ceremony, instead they go to a different lodge called the “moon lodge”. Men and Woman usually don’t sweat together. Stay alcohol and drug free for 4 days before the ceremony. Women cover their bodies with a modest cotton dress, men wear shorts. Each participant makes an offering for the lodge (tobacco, sage or sweetgrass and/or items such as herbs, tea, cotton cloth) when you come to ceremonies.