Talk:Swami Ramdev

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[edit] Swami Ramdev

Just by taking a look at the article, one can tell that there are gross stylistic errors, and an uncyclopedic tone. As I am unfamiliar with the swami world, I'm sending it to the Cleanup Taskforce to inspect and improve it. bibliomaniac15 06:03, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Added to User:Nonstopdrivel/Desk Ekantik talk 03:49, 29 December 2006 (UTC) It seems that this page on Swami Ramdev has been edited by Leftist bodies.I strongly object to their false propoganda regarding Swami Ramdev.Indeed his Pranayama techniques have brought relief to thousands of people including me.

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This article does injustice to swamiji by focussing too much on Controversies.Shameful


Whoa! Extremely pro-Swamiji. All doctors are stupid? Coke and Pepsi are like toilet cleaner? Somebody do something please.


Also, his name is spelt as Ramdev. While this is correct in the phonetic sense, how about also linking Swami Ramdeo to this article? --Mayuresh Kadu (India) 19:39, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Npov and sources required

statements like...

"Viewers of the TV show and attendees at the camp have reported significant improvements in their health - citing relief from many illnesses such as Diabetes, Heart Disease, Arthritis, Thyroid Problems, Hypertension, Stomach ailments and different types of cancer without the use of any medicines. But it should also be noted that most of these 'patients' speak on television for the first time and are over awed by the situation. Like most human beings in such situations, these patients are suceptible to exageration, which may explain the so called miracles he is rumored to perform".

...demonstrate this. Don't remove the templates untill issues are resolved. Sfacets 13:36, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

...No one is saying all doctors are fools, but why do people say this about a medicne system, Indian medicne system. Colas are not good for health , this is an open secret now, Govts across are banning them in schools, please listen to this man (Ramdev Ji) 2-3 times before juding him.

...No one is judging him. I was merely referring to the previous content of the article, which has happily been removed. However, this article still needs a major cleanup. As far asthe "Indian" medicine system is concerned, you are way off the mark. Nobody is calling Ayurveda practitioners 'fools'. It is a widely recognised and followed practice in India. Swami'ji' is not the be all and end all of Ayurveda. As far as Colas being 'not good for health' being an open secret, please follow your own advice as to collecting proper information before condemning something. Govts ban lots of things: all are not necessarily due to actual compulsions. There may be political motives. However, if you do think they are bad for health, please state your views exactly, i.e., how are they worse for health than say, lemonade? I will try to counter them. Might even make an interesting discussion. Please note that this is an academic exercise --- I have the utmost respet for Swami'ji'.

[edit] Date of birth

What is the date of Birth of Baba Ramdev,the article states 1965,but one anon.editor made it 1935.I am putting it here for discussion and reverting the edits of unknown user.Holy -- + -- Warrior 16:08, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Copyright Violation

- External article on "Marsh Infosys" (http://www.marsh.in/html/yoga/yoga.htm) has mostly identical content in some paras with section Swami on Wiki page. This external article states the Wiki page for Baba Ramdev as a reference - Most of the content in SWAMI section of current version was submitted by me (username Wikipost) as original material based on info received from Divvya Yoga Trust personnel (its current version reflects additional Wiki user community modifications) - So, if this section and its content are the source of the copyright issue then ******THERE IS NO COPYRIGHT VIOLATION*****


'from the website' "Copyright © 2006 Marsh InfoZys Birhana Road Kanpur India. All Rights Reserved".

There you have it. They copyrighted the content. Therefore legally the content cannot be re-distributed here.

I have re-inserted the template, pending peer review. Sfacets 23:35, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Copyright Violation Continued

I think you misread the copyright notice - the copyright is a part of their template for their (Marsh InfoZys) WHOLE WEBSITE. ALL their pages say this.

For example - if you visit their Products Page you will see mention of various Microsoft Products - yet NO MENTION of Microsoft copyright - only their own copyright notice at the bottom. Using the same inference as used to infer copyright infraction in the Swami Ramdev article, this would imply that they (Marz InfoZys) hold the Copyright to these names not Microsoft !

This site (Marsh) is for a Technical Consulting company that designs websites - not a publisher of magazine content. From the references they cite (IN PARTICULAR THEY MENTION WIKI PAGE ON SWAMI RAMDEV AS A SOURCE), it looks like they put together their article as an assembly of content from various sources on the Internet.

If indeed copright was a concern, surely they would have raised the copyright issue as opposed to mentioning the Wikipage for Swami Ramdev as a reference !

Since you have concerns about the Copyright, it may be of help to contact them and see if they

  • share your concerns about copyright violations and if they do
  • What is their legitimate basis for the claim  ?

This would lend more credibility to there being a contention as opposed to an assumption inferred from a web page

Wikipost

[edit] divya yoga link

Do we all agree it is an ok link to use? I don't think either Wikipost or Sfacets got a problem with it, but anon IP's are removing it. Bakaman Bakatalk 16:05, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

Agree !! Wikipost 20:10, 26 August 2006 (UTC);

[edit] THERE IS NO COPYRIGHT VIOLATION

Posted below is the text in e-mails from Aquanile/Marsh confirming THERE IS NO COPYRIGHT VIOLATION. I have deleted the name of the individual responding - to respect their privacy. If you feel a great desire to still pursue this, you can verify for yourself by writing to the companies above through their web-site.

......I explicitly state that the original material (before 31 August ) is not copyrighted by either Aquanile UK or by Marsh India and was intended to be used to support Yoga propagation efforts of Swami Ramdev rather than for any commercial purposes.

.....In fact, if you desire, I can remove the entire material from my website or else reword it so that you can put the original material once again on the wiki page........

The material was largely compiled from the wiki page on wikipedia and there was no copyright violation intended and the clear reference was on the page regarding Swami Ramdev........

The two companies have no direct affiliation with Baba Ramdev or with yoga camps. .....

(They have also posted on the previous version of the article page to confirm there is no issue here - user Sanevoice)

SO, THIS MATTER OF COPYRIGHT VIOLATION IS RESOLVED !

Wikipost 16:34, 7 September 2006 (UTC)


[edit] SOME OBSERVATIONS ON COPYRIGHT VIOLATION

This unproductive exercise of raising unfounded copyright issues illustrates several items:

- Just browsing the web to "discover" articles with similar content does not make an individual a copyright expert.

- Proper conduct at Wiki should, above all, SHOW RESPECT for the contributions made by legitimate participants.

In this case, individuals who chose to delete content on the basis of some mythical copyright claim violated this tenet by:

- NOT TAKING THE TIME OR EFFORT TO VERIFY THE COPYRIGHT VIOLATION and DISREGARDED INFORMATION THAT CONTRADICTED THEIR CLAIM.

Most of all, they DEMEANED WIKI ITSELF.

For when they deleted most of the content on Swami WITHOUT MAKING THE EFFORT TO REPLACE IT, they left the page as one mostly related to the controversy. Surely, Wiki is meant to provide a more robust perspective than this !

Leaves one wondering as to whether these self-appointed guardians of Wiki are exercising responsible stewardship or just indulging in posting expressions of stunted egos.....

Wikipost 16:51, 7 September 2006 (UTC)


Please wikipost, I have been rewriting it. I commented out the section, so that I could slowly get the article back into shape. Don't get angry at me.Bakaman Bakatalk 01:02, 9 September 2006 (UTC)


No problems here Baka - Now and Before always value your contributions. Thanks for your efforts ! Wikipost 03:19, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Major Contributors

I would like to thank User:Sfacets, User:MANOJTV, and USer:Wikipost for their work on the article. Between us 4 we account for 31% (106) of the edits. Bakaman Bakatalk 19:18, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Picture

Can anyone find a picture of Baba Ramdevji ?Bakaman Bakatalk 19:18, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

What was wrong with the previous one? Ekantik 14:11, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
A typical Google Image search will find a few. Example. Ekantik 14:17, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] UNO

Need to disambiguate UNO (currently points to disamibugation page, which one?) RJFJR 23:48, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Clarifications on the latest edit

  1. The first part of the section on the Controversy is clear about who first brought the issue into lime light. The names of CPM and its leader Brinda Karat are clearly mentioned. The words 'deliberately', 'raked up' etc are POVs and need not form part of Wikipedia.
  2. The issues raised by the critics have not died out and they are still relevant, especially those related to labelling of Ayurvedic medicines & details of the ingredients.
  3. The laboratory report from Indian Health Ministry is genuine. Relevant reference is sited in the article itself.
  4. The fact that CPM is part of the United Progressive Alliance is not relevant here. Hence that sentence is removed. MANOJTV 09:36, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Do we need superlatives?

"(Ramdev) is a legendary figure in India. He has revolutionized the way of treatment of diseases based on Yoga. Millions of individuals take advantage of his techniques which are broadcasted on TV, by practicing Pranayama".

I delete the above sentences for the following reasons:

  1. Legendry? It is an unnecessary superlative unsuitable for an encyclopedia. Controversial may be a better word. But I desist from using it.
  2. What precisely is the revolution Ramdev made in treatment based on Yoga? He did nothing of that sort. He Just made use of the existing knowledge of Yoga which has been around for centuries. Rather, he trivialised the practice of Ayurveda and Yoga.
  3. Is it correct to say that millions of individuals are practising yoga by watching his TV broadcast? Do we have any statistics? Utmost, one can claim that millions are watching his TV broadcast; but not practising.MANOJTV 03:24, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Does Wikipedia require unsourced and propaganda materials?

Is there any factual information in the following sentence which I have jus now removed from the article?

"Viewers of the TV show and attendees at the camp have reported significant improvements in their health - citing relief from many illnesses such as Diabetes, Heart Disease, Arthritis, Thyroid Problems, Hypertension, Stomach ailments and different types of cancer without the use of any medicines. He does not claim to be GOD or do miracles. Yoga is a science and needs to be studied before rejecting the positives effectives experienced by people after practising Yoga or Pranayam."

  1. Significant improvement in the health of diseases such major ailments as cancer patients by pratising Yoga, that too by following methods taught by Ramdev! What is the source of this claim? Did anybody conduct any test under controlled conditions about the afficacy of Ramdev's method of Yoga?

While practising yoga definitely have beneficial effects, one should be careful before coming out with fantastic claims. Wikipedia should not be used as a propaganda page of any swami or godman. MANOJTV 06:19, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

RESPONSE:

Disagree with complete removal of this para and have reinserted a few lines. My reasons being:


- Wiki articles are meant to bring to its readers balanced viewpoints based on reasonably objective information. Hopefully, this effort then provides some basis for the reader to move towards making an "informed" inference.

- It is reasonable to assume that many of the readers visiting this Swami Ramdev page would be curious to know - What benefits do the people who attend his programs seem to gain ? (as opposed to say just wanting to know about his upbringing or educational background)

- Published testimonials and studies are available through Swami Ramdev's organization of program members experiencing benefits such as reduction in blood sugar levels (Diabetes), blood pressure (Hypertension)and cholesterol (Heart Disease). As regards mention of curing cancer, I agree that more data needs to be provided.

As a side note:

If this para is deemed unsuitable then for the sake of consistency the whole section on the Controversy should be deleted too. After all, Brinda Karat's allegations were scientifically disproved ! But in the spirit of Wiki this would then no longer provide a "balanced" viewpoint.....

RESPONSE:#2. Well it is not only people who are awed to be in front of the t.v. seem to gain from this. My friends mother is living proof of his treatment. His pranayama cured her of a skin disease for which the doctors said there was no cure, only strong anti-allergic injections. It is only after that I believe that he is a genuine. Brinda karat's allegations are baseless but have been included in this wiki. I think that is not a balanced POV. Because as everyone knows Brinda allegations were false. But instead of the wiki saying that since the allegations were proved false Baba ramdev remains popular. Infact the Wiki it is trying to imply that "inspite of the controversies" Baba Ramdev remains popular. Wikipost 22:51, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Swami ramdev, LETS FIND TRUTH

Rather than arguing about who he is and making opppinions lets get the facts , i suggfest contacting divya yog mandir trust and the govt. of india —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.32.56.219 (talk) 13:23, 13 January 2007 (UTC).

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