Talk:Swabian War

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Oh yes, is it? Well, nice to see that the article has been "adopted", but it was written without any knowledge of that project. Lupo 07:12, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

But of course — the project, for all real purposes, didn't exist at the time! No taking of credit for the article intended :) Kirill Lokshin 13:22, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] References

I'm sorry that all references lead to sources in German language, but I have not found a single useful on-line or paper reference in English. Anyone knows one? Lupo 09:11, 13 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Terminology

I am surprised to discover that we don't have articles on high jurisdiction and low jurisdiction, two fairly important concepts if one wants to try to understand medieval politics and power structures. I am not a medievalist myself, so maybe the concepts go by different English names? C.f. de:Hohe Gerichtsbarkeit and de:Niedere Gerichtsbarkeit. Lupo 09:16, 13 May 2005 (UTC)

All right: these seem to be called high justice and low justice. Lupo 20:05, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Supply line phrase

Removed the following from the article's lead section, as it doesn't parse:

Finally, the Swiss had the strategic advantages location and shorter supply lines.

Originally, the phrase had been "...strategic advantage of shorter distances". The following conversation has been copied here from User talk:Petaholmes and User talk:Lupo by Lupo 07:39, 16 May 2005 (UTC):

Thanks for helping improve my grammar, I really do appreciate it. Just a minor point on "shorter distances" in the lead, which you replaced by "shorter supply lines". I'm not quite sure that this is true. If it refers to food: both sides got the food for their armies from the areas where these armies were located. If it refers to ammunition etc, I don't know where either armies got that from. If it refers to bring new troops to the front from the hinterland, then it may be true: in the Habsburg/Swabian armies served mercenaries from Flanders (which Maximilian had brought with him, and which then stayed, so they don't really count), but also troops from e.g. Nuremberg, which is quite far away. However, I was referring more to the simple fact that the Swiss could march from their main camp at Schwaderloh south of Constance directly to the southern Grisons, as they controlled the whole territory along the way, whereas Maximilian and his troops had to make a huge detour around Lake Constance, over the Arlberg into Tyrol and then into the Val Venosta to get e.g. from Constance to the Val Müstair (and back). These long travel times also contributed to the Swiss victory (-ies), because the Swabian leaders were separated from Maximilian for extended time periods, and it was thus difficult for them to agree on a common battle plan. Is this covered by the term "supply line", too? If not, how could one express this better, but still in a concise way? Lupo 10:16, 13 May 2005 (UTC)

You're right, its a bit more complicated that just supply lines, but they are part of the situation. The definition of supply line definition seems to miss the aspect of moving units in and out of a area. The sentence now says Finally, the Swiss had the strategic advantages location and shorter supply lines, which should be ok while I try and find a word that describes the advantage of not having to travel long distances. Excellent article, did you write and translate it?--nixie 10:47, 13 May 2005 (UTC)
Thanks! It's not a translation from de:Schwabenkrieg. It's original English text I wrote a s a summary of the references given. Maybe it reads like a translation in places; if so, that's just my first language showing through :-) (or rather, :-(...)
Sorry, but strategic advantages location and shorter supply lines doesn't parse. Missing "of"? Lupo 11:07, 13 May 2005 (UTC)

If someone can come up with a concise way of expressing what I explained above, we could re-add the improved phrase. It isn't essential, though, and the article is just as good without it. Lupo 07:39, 16 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Map needed

This article could use a map similar to the one here, ideally a relief map of Switzerland and the surrounding area (including rivers and lakes), with the borders of 1499, and the most important places marked. I have neither the necessary skill nor the tools to do that myself. Can someone help me out? Thank you. Lupo 22:10, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

The map is done now - any comments, wishes? Sidonius 15:46, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
Great, thank you very much! Just a few minor nitpicks (sorry...):
<Snip snip> by Lupo, see commons:Image talk:Map_Swabian_War.png. Lupo 16:53, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
Lupo 07:07, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Italian Wars

From the last section:

... The Swiss involvement ended only with their defeat in the Battle of Marignano in 1515 and a subsequent peace treaty with the French king (1516).

This seems, at least on the surface, wildly incorrect; the Swiss played a very significant role until at least 1525 (e.g. at Bicocca and Pavia), and I'm pretty certain (though I'll need to check this) that they continued to participate even past that date (perhaps as late as 1544?). Is this just a mistake, or is there some more subtle point that's being made here? Kirill Lokshin 02:26, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

No, it's not an error, but I should probably clarify. The involvement of the Old Swiss Confederacy, acting in its own interests, was brought to an end by their defeat at Marignano. However, Swiss mercenaries in the service of various parties and, following that "Eternal Peace" with France in 1516, in particular in the Service of the French king, continued well beyond. I have already an article about the details of the Swiss conquest of the Ticino in the pipeline. At the German WP, there's already de:Ennetbirgische Feldzüge, covering that aspect. I'll rephrase the sentence. Lupo 08:28, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
Ah, ok. That's a bit clearer. Kirill Lokshin 17:15, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Battles of the Swabian War

I covered practically all major battles on the German Wikipedia now and uploaded some more pictures to the commons. They are all categorized by "Swabian War" now. I cannot translate them because I am busy writing the Swiss history in German. Perhaps somebody else has some free time...? Sidonius 21:27, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

I'll get to it shortly, don't worry... the "many red links" was one of the comments at the peer review. Lupo 21:42, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
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