Talk:Super-Skrull

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

	This article is in the scope of WikiProject Comics, a collaborative effort to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to comics on Wikipedia. Get involved! Edit the article attached to this page or discuss it at the project talk page. Help with current tasks, or visit the notice board.
???	This article has no rating on the quality scale. Please rate the article and provide comments here.
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the Project's importance scale.

Contents 1 Amazo? 2 Appearances 3 Page Flips 4 Images? 5 Battle with Sasquatch 6 Exodus or Armada? 7 Other versions 8 Present Tense 9 Sasquatch encounter/Captain Hero removal

[edit] Amazo?

Is there any clear connection between him and Amazo? They both look similar and both possess all the powers of the first team they fought.

None of which I know. Several superhero teams faced villains that amalgamated their own powers. Think Composite Man/Legion of Super-Heroes and Mimic/X-Men for other examples. CovenantD 15:57, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Appearances

I've moved the 'appearances' section into Super-Skrull/appearances It was basically an editorial on events already covered in his biography. If someone wants to try cleaning it up there, go ahead. --DrBat 19:37, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Page Flips

I've noticed within the past few days that the format of this page has dramatically flipped a few times. For what it's worth, I prefer the way it is now, last changed by CovenantD. Thanks, CovenantD. I think the page looks better this way. Bhissong 12:33, 12 October 2006 (UTC)bhissong

The text has now been edited and made far more succinct. The "tell the story" aspect of the Ultimate version has been culled and the Skrullian Skymaster removed, as he's a version of the Martian Manhunter - not the Super Skrull. The original image has been retained but the cover featuring the SS's first appearance now has pride of place.

Asgardian 22:03, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

You reverted, even after a Wikipedia:Third opinion was offered. CovenantD 22:22, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Read the new text. Clarity and brevity are the key. I am also suspicious of anyone who "supports" your changes given your history. Asgardian 22:24, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

You also need to review the policy about assuming good faith. CovenantD 22:28, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Again, your history on your Talk page tells a very different story. Your Edit log is also...disturbing. It smacks of obsession. This could all be gone tomorrow. What then?

Asgardian 22:33, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Uh, what's this whole "I am also suspicious of anyone who 'supports' your changes given your history"? So I like CovenantD's interpretation of the article better than yours. So what? Get over yourself and get a life. Bhissong 23:49, 12 October 2006 (UTC)bhissong

Act like an adult and not a child. That is an immature response. Asgardian 01:05, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Good advice, for all of us, as I'm sure we all want to see Super-Skrull evolve into an informative and useful article. Ok, there seem to be some differing opinions on exactly what that involves. Fair enough. That's what the talk page is intended for resolving, after all. But we seem to be drifting away from the article itself - so can we steer the discussion back to that? --Mrph 01:14, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Agreed. As for flip-flopping - study the text in the new version. It is tighter, less "tell the story" (a major problem on Wikipedia) and we have new images, including his first appearance! How is that not a good thing?

Bhissong - I suggest you make some changes to your Talk page if you want to gain some respect, as this line - "I keep a pretty close eye on these articles, so don't cock 'em up." - does you no favours. There are no self-appointed Lords of Wikipedia here. Someone will always know more, and have been reading for longer. It's about enjoyment. Nothing more. Peace. Asgardian 01:21, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Asgardian - Apparently you don't understand tongue-in-cheek humor (as per your response to my Talk page). Somehow, I'm not surprised. As for being "childish," I'm not the one who's having a fit over this site. As you say, "it's about the enjoyment" (not the constant flip-flopping and pissing-matches concerning who's version is better). It seems to me that you aren't so focused on the "enjoyment" of the wikipedia article as you say. As for gaining "some respect" from my Talk Page, if it's your respect we're talking about, I don't want it. I've said my peace, and will respond to no more of your comments, so don't even try. As far as I'm concerned, this has gone on far enough. I will edit as I see fit following Wiki. guidelines. Bhissong 13:23, 13 October 2006 (UTC)bhissong

[edit] Images?

Ok, then, following on from that... which images should be on the page? The first appearance, the (relatively) recent Jim Cheung pic, or both? --Mrph 01:26, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Both should be fine. The Annihilation cover also contributes rather than clutters. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Asgardian (talk • contribs) . 08:38, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

I would suggest a diffent image in the character box. Super-Skull is barely distinguishable from the Human Torch on the cover of Fantastic Four #18, which is currently used. I think the character box image should be more indicitive of his skrull-appearance. His first appearance in FF #18 can still be included in the article, just not as the character box image. Thoughts? Bhissong 13:41, 13 October 2006 (UTC)bhissong

I'm tempted to agree - FantasticFour-18.jpg doesn't show him in his natural green and (although he's the focus of the picture) he's relatively small. I'd take the editorial guidelines for images as our best guidance for this - within those limits, what's the best picture available? --Mrph 18:22, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

There is another very good cover shot of him, but I'll have to find it. Will check on the cancer issue. Need to check the Marvel Team-Up story that put him there.

Asgardian 22:37, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Well, what about one of the recent Annihilation covers? I know not everyone likes Dell'Otto's art, but there are a few images that meet the criteria for a character box image. Here are two: and Bhissong 02:54, 14 October 2006 (UTC)bhissong

Well, after checking it turns out there is no cover of the SS using all four powers at once (in fact the Marvel Team-Up cover is pretty bad). Bhissong's 2nd image is very good, and just features him so there will be no questions about anyone else in the shot. Also got the FF cover in next to the text (now more succinct). Asgardian 04:13, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

And in a disappointing turn of events, CovenantD has blindly reverted to what he thinks is the best option for the second time in a row, thereby defeating the purpose of the discussion. Asgardian 04:40, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

Trying to discuss things with you has proven more than frustrating because even when you are referred to various guidelines, policies, Manuals of Style and exemplars, not to mention directly engaged, you tend to ignore them in favor of your preferred version. So far, the best technique seems to be to keep hammering away at those points until you eventually start incorporating them into your edits. I've seen a lot of improvement from you, but in some articles you still refuse to follow the various guidelines on even simple things like capitalization in headers. CovenantD 04:54, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

That is a technical issue, and there has been improvement. You, however, need to work on the personal side of things - see some of your own comments in edit columns. Asgardian 05:48, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

So, we've got the S-S:Annihilation #4 cover at the moment. Works for me and seems to meet the guidelines pretty well. Is everyone else happy with that choice as the top-of-page SHB image? (It seems Annihilation's been rather good for shb images - every character who got an Annihilation miniseries is currently illustrated with one of their cover pics... :)

--Mrph 08:57, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

Yeah. The S-S:Ann. cover looks great in the character box. I vote for it. Bhissong 14:56, 14 October 2006 (UTC)bhissong

[edit] Battle with Sasquatch

IIRC, he contracted cancer after being transmitted into Earth's Van Allen belt (by Spider-man and Miss Marvel, shown in flashback), not because of the augmenting beam. Can anyone confirm this?

Confirmed and altered thusly, along with a link to a summary of Alpha Flight #10 (from UncannyXmen.Net), the issue that first mentions the cancer and states the Van Allen belt radiation as the source. I also added info on the SS's incarnation as Bobby Wright/Captain Hero; I thought it odd that the article for the Drawn Together Captain Hero points to this article for the Marvel Comics version, but the only acknowledgement of Captain Hero in this article was listing the name as an alias in the sidebar. -- Pennyforth 18:22, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Thank you. I didn't know enough about the retcon to include it myself. CovenantD 21:28, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

No problem, and please forgive my scatterbrained-ness and poor proofreading that necessitated so many edits. One of these days, I'm going to learn to turn the TV off when I'm editing Wikipedia. - Pennyforth 20:10, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Exodus or Armada?

So, Marvel have announced that there's a new Super-Skrull series after annihilation - Joe Quesada (Sept 11th) said it's called Super-Skrull: Armada (which is the name we list in the article). Andy Schmidt (Sept 22nd) said it's called Super-Skrull: Exodus. Anyone know any more about which is correct, so we can update the page accordingly? Schmidt's the more recent, so I'm betting on that, but still... --Mrph 09:10, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Other versions

...this info seems to have been stripped down to bare bones at the moment. Two questions...

1. Do we want to add the Skrullian Spymaster back into this section?
2. Do we need more information on the Ultimate Super-Skrull?

Opinions? --Mrph 10:58, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

Good questions. Well, I really don't know much about the Skrullian Spymaster and his relationship to the Super-Skrull, so I'll defer to more experienced parties. As for the Ultimate Super-Skrull, I noticed the trend of including the Ultimate version of a character in the main Marvel Universe character-article (especially when there is very little information on the Ulitmate character). The rational being that there isn't enough info. for the Ultimate character to have a section of his/her own. So, I wouldn't have a problem including Ultimate Super-Skrull.

And...uh...I'd like to say that in retrospect, I've been a bit of an arse in some of my replies. I suppose I could have been a bit less snarky. So, to Asgardian, I apologize. Bhissong 14:54, 14 October 2006 (UTC)bhissong

Don't worry about it. We're cool.

Asgardian 02:07, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

Yes, both of them should appear. With the Spymaster's powers being the same as SS, they are variations on a theme. Restoring deleted text. CovenantD 16:09, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

Oh, and Mrph, in the future you might want to check Asgardian's edits to see if he has reverted to the old SHB and wiped out categories. It's a common problem that he persists in continuing. CovenantD 16:17, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

I'm gotten better and learn a few new tricks every time. What YOU need to realise is that some can rewrite what is essentially verbose (eg. tell the story) text for the better. Don't revert back to something that contains dead links or no reference points which have been added.

Asgardian 02:07, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

Ultimate Versions

Unless there is going to be a separate Ultimate section (which I consider unnecessary), the Ulimate version should always be considered as the "B" version, and as such only warrant a few succinct lines. I've seen far too many Ultimate entries (such as the Super Skrull) where someone just "tells the story". The fact that an alternate version exists and has done A, B or C should be sufficient. The entry should pique interest, while not innundating the article proper.

Skrullian Skymaster

He's an alternate version of the Martian Manhunter, not the Super Skrull. I've never seen the Skymaster do SS-style things such as flame on or develop Thing-like hands. Instead, he calmly stands to the side and acts as counsel to the Squadron Supreme, which is J'onn's role in the JLA (or was until recently).

Asgardian 02:07, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

With regard to the Skrullian Skymaster, I would originaly have said the same thing - but the article states that in New World Order (which I haven't read...) he reveals that he has the Super-Skrull powers... if that's the case, isn't he an alternate version of both? --Mrph 08:52, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

...as for Ultimate Super-Skrull, he's only appeared in one storyline, so I'm in favour of keeping it short. But as with any alternate version, the differences (and a quick summary of the plot?) need to be noted - so I think we at least need to explain how his powers differ from Kl'rt? --Mrph 08:52, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

Mrph - I've read New World Order and it's a fairly weak comparison. That said, I'll tidy up the text and make a coherent reference to it in day or so. Thanks also for the tip about referencing with "Vol" - looks like Wiki is catching up with how it's done in the real world. There's a couple of other characters that need some serious work (poor images; badly written text) so feel free to track me and chime in. The Vision is a good example: what a mess!

Asgardian 11:15, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Present Tense

O.k. So I changed the tense of the article from past to present as per wiki-guidelines. It's still the nice, concise article it was before. If anyone sees any corrects regarding tense, please feel free to change as you see fit. Hope this helped make it a better article. Bhissong 01:03, 16 October 2006 (UTC)bhissong

Good work and thank you. CovenantD 01:33, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

OK. Tidied up the entry on the Skrullian Skymaster. How he joined the Squadron etc etc is for his own page, not here. The matching abilities are the point of interest.

Asgardian 03:24, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Uh, he doesn't have his own page - that's why he's here. Revert. CovenantD 03:31, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Fine. I'll make one. Still not appropriate.

Asgardian 03:32, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

It's inappropriate to create a new page for a variation on a character that would be nothing more than a stub. CovenantD 03:43, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

It seems to be good enough for many other characters. No matter - we put it in the Squadron Supreme entry as it only takes three very succinct lines. I'll do it myself in a day or so.

Asgardian 09:23, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

To be fair, a lot of those characters are getting Merge requests - or should be. WikiProject comics editorial guidelines say that alternate versions should only have their own article as a last resort, if the original article is too large. --Mrph 09:38, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sasquatch encounter/Captain Hero removal

Asgardian, could you please stop reverting the paragraph on the Super-Skrull's encounter with Sasquatch and removing the paragraph on his time as Captain Hero? If you feel the Captain Hero paragraph is too expansive, it can be edited down, but it shouldn't be removed completely; as long as it is established continuity that Marvel's Captain Hero was actually the Super-Skrull, it should be noted, especially since "Captain Hero" was listed as one of his aliases prior to my adding the info to the article, and the article for Captain Hero (the Drawn Together character) points here for the Marvel character of the same name. If it needs trimmed, feel free to do so, or I can do it sometime in the near future (personal responsibilities permitting).

As for the Sasquatch encounter, the assertions that Kl'rt contracted cancer from exposure to his augmentation beam and that Sasquatch dispersed him into deep space are false. Alpha Flight (first series) #10 clearly states that the Super-Skrull's cancer was caused by his initial period of imprisonment in the Van Allen Belts, and that Sasquatch returned him to the Belts at the end of their encounter. (See issue summary here.) The information as I rewrote it is correct, and should not be reverted. -- Pennyforth 20:02, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Addition: Alpha Flight #10 also explains exactly where the Super-Skrull had been since his Marvel Team-Up appearance, and Asgardian has been reverting that clearly stated information to the vague "The Super-Skrull disappears for a time". I think the specific explanation should stand. -- Pennyforth 20:12, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Nicely done, Asgardian. Thanks for listening. - Pennyforth 02:07, 3 December 2006 (UTC)