Talk:Sun Language Theory

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[edit] Joke?

Ha ha ha!!! it is like a joke!

Is there any problem in labelling this pseudo-science?--Chris 13:19, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

No, the Sun Language Theory was clearly pseudoscience. The people who proposed it were not historical-comparative linguists, and it has never had any credibility at all in the wider world of historical linguistics, not even among Turkish linguists. It was put forward for rather obvious political reasons. The evidence offered for it was not the sort of evidence accepted as valid in historical linguistics. The only people who don't consider it a joke are Turkish nationalists who know nothing about historical linguistics.Bill 00:29, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Yes, although the Sun Language Theory is fell into oblivion today, it was regarded as an important attempt for many linguists that day. Bill is mentioning the "history" of linguistics but forgeting that this was more than 60 years ago. The sun language theory is a history now, but this does not necessitates to shame these linguists as pseudo-scientists or nationalists. One of them is Agop Dilacar well known Armenian linguist (DİLÂÇAR, A.; Les bases Bio-Psychologiques de la Theorie Güneş Dil, İstanbul 1936). There are many others such as Anagnastapulos, Bartalini, Denison Ross, Hilaire de Barenton, Jean Deny, Mescaninof, Nemeth Guyula, Samoilovic, Zayanckovski, ... For this reason, i'm totally against calling it as a pseudo-science or nationalist movement. It's just a hypothesis turned out to be incorrect. Especially, shaming these linguists as "Turkish nationalists who know nothing about historical linguistics" or pseudo-scientists is rather simplistic POV. e104421 13:11, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

It is simply not true that the Sun Language Theory had any real credibility among historical linguists, not even sixty years ago. Yes, there were people here and there who supported it, but they were a tiny minority. Furthermore, the "evidence" presented in support of this theory was not the kind of evidence considered credible by the mainstream of historical linguistics since the latter part of the 19th century. You will not find any of the major figures of historical linguistics of the time who considered it a serious hypothesis. It is all too common for people who are not historical linguists to pursue crazy ideas, not realizing that they don't know what they are doing. Agop Dilacar is a good example of the problem. While he certainly knew a lot about Turkish, he was not expert in comparative historical linguistics. Even in its own time, the Sun Language Theory was not well motivated in terms of the evidence regarded as relevant at the time and was not taken seriously by the mainstream of the field. It was indeed pseudoscience. Bill 04:29, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] merging versions by E104421 and Khosrow II

So one source tells that the origin was one guy and the other source says that it was the other? Lets just mention both of them. Correct me if I am wrong. 1936 NYT is an important document but still journalists tend to mix things up and the Turkey of 1936 was a reasonably exotic place (I guess the NYT author read French better than Turkish). Unless there are study showing that one info is wrong lets keep them both Alex Bakharev 00:43, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

TURKS TEACH NEW THEORIES Source:The New York Times Date:Feb. 9, 1936 ISTANBUL Feb. 7-In the presence of Mustafa Kemal Ataturk and members of the Cabinet the new school of history, geography and literature recently was opened at Angora. Its immediate purpose is to make the capital the cultural center of the republic and, combined with the law school, it will be the nucleus of a complete university, sister of the one at Istanbul.

The significance of the new foundation, however, is much wider and more ambitious, for its object is to expound new theories on Turkish history and language for which no less a person than Mr. Ataturk is responsible.

The President of the Turkish Republic, besides being a statesman and soldier of remarkable abilities, has considerable knowledge about history and linguistic matters. As the result of many years of labor in these directions, he has propounded certain theories which will be taught in the new school at Angora. They are somewhat difficult to explain, but their broad outlines are as follows:

Work done by various scientists during the last fifty years goes to show that the Turkish race has been grossly maligned by older historians biased by racial or religous prejudices. The Turks are far form being a predatory race of barbarians. The Turks reached, in remote ages, a high state of culture which, during migrations into China, India, Mesopotamia and Asia Minor, they spread among the less enlightened peoples.

They should threfore really be considered the fathers of civilization and possessors of one of the greatest and most glorious histories in the world. As regards language, the new theory is called the "sun language."

Starting with the conclusion reached by the French scientist Hilaire de Baranton in his book "L'Origine des Langues, des Religions et des Peuples," published in Paris three years ago, that all languages originated from hieroglyphs and cuneiforms used by Sumerians, the Turkish theory claims that the Sumerians, being Turks, originating in Central Asia, all languages also consequently originated there and first used by the Turks.

the first language, in fact, came into being in this wise: Prehistoric man, i.e., Turks in the most primitive stage, was so struck by the effects of the sun on life that he made of it a deity whence sprang all good and evil. Thence came to him light, darkness, warmth and fire, with it were associated all ideas of time: height, distance, movement, size, &c., and give expression to his feelings the sun was thus the first hing to which a name was given. It was "ag" [pronounced agh], and from this syllable all words in use today are derived.

This, briefly, is the theory about the "sun language," and with the new conception of Turkish history it will be taught in the new Angora school. Specialists will also teach Greek, Latin, Sanskrit, Sumerian, Hittite, Chinese, French, English, German, Russian and Hungarian