Talk:Sufjan Stevens

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Contents 1 Archives 2 Christian themes - original research 3 Comparisons 4 Maple River 5 Fifty States Project 6 Pronunciation of His First Name 7 Speculation?

[edit] Archives

• /Archive1 - Through November 2006

[edit] Christian themes - original research

IMO this whole section is really running afoul of WP:NOR. Apparently one editor decides to come up with novel interpretations to emphasize Stevens' lyrics in relation to Christianity; then a second editor decides to balance the content to deemphasize it; and round and round we go. Any interpretation of the lyrics aside from the trivially obvious constitutes original research. Some basic Christian references are probably just too obvious to ignore, and the same might be the case of other sorts of references. But attempts to piece together a picture of Stevens' faith or lack thereof belong in someone's doctoral thesis, not in a Wikipedia article. Please support these very soon with published sources (the citation for "Lord God Bird" is duly noted and should be preserved) or I plan to revert them, regardless of whether they're seen as pro-Christian or pro-secularism or whatever. Cheers, PhilipR 05:45, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Actually, I nearly gutted the subsection yesterday, but thought twice for some reason. I agree completely, it's nearly all original research. Frankly, I wouldn't be opposed to removing everything but the first paragraph or so (and the Lord God Bird blurb). Everything else is unreferenced. · j e r s y k o talk · 14:38, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Agree As I said above: I'm not sure the in-depth analysis of every Christian metaphor presented in his songs is needed to be posted on this page. (including biblical references, etc.) It just seems to take things way to far for this wiki page? Any other thoughts? I suggest keeping it simple with a couple quotes and perhaps a brief stance on his religious position. I would go as far to delete it. Onishenko 20:07, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

Agree too! But can't we find a reputable 3rd-party source analyzing some of this? Dybryd 04:34, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

unsure isn't it obvious that his lyrics are jam packed with Christian references, though? i can pick out waaaay more than was posted on the wiki page. that's just the tip of the iceberg User:claydoc 18:15, 23 December 2006

Of course, but it's not the place of Wikipedia editors to do original interpretive work -- even making explicit what seems to be clearly implied. That's WP:OR There must be a third-party source writing about this we could quote, though. Dybryd 23:26, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

Agree. The section is rambling and collegiate. But Sufjan's Christian themes are very important to his music, and should definitely have a section, so there needs to be something like a summary with references and a couple of more-direct lyrics.Yours etc. 01:28, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Minor point - I was just checking reference 6 in the main article, and I can't see the quote in this article in the referenced text at all. Could someone either correct me, or the article?Shahid1618 15:01, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

I thought the AV article is pretty clear that he attends an Anglican church. While this doesn't mean he is a Christian, it seem pretty significant. Amandamae 23:01, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Of course it means he's a Christian, silly buns.

[edit] Comparisons

The comparison to Guaraldi I removed relied on this sentence from Amazon.com: "Illinois sounds like The Sea and Cake collaborating with the high-school band from a Wes Anderson film on banjo-driven, pulsing meditations on Vince Guaraldi's music for Peanuts." PuerExMachina 06:39, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

That's fine, add it back in and footnote it if you wish. I wouldn't have made the Guaraldi/Stevens comparison but it's published by a semi-reliable source. (I think Amazon's reviews come from somewhere else though.) If you have problems footnoting it just put the URL in single brackets [1] and someone will help. Regards, PhilipR 23:27, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

I removed it because I don't think that quote actually compares Sufjan's music to Guaraldi's music. The quote has to be taken as a whole to make any sense; even then, I'm not sure it makes a lot of sense, at least not enough to warrant inclusion in the article. PuerExMachina 08:45, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Maple River

The song title "Maple River" refers to the Maple River that runs within a few miles of one of the towns where Sufjan grew up in northern Michigan, not the river in Minnesota.

[edit] Fifty States Project

I removed the sentence 'There have been other times Stevens has said he does not really plan to make an album for every state, specifically listing Texas as a state he will "probably never do."^[1]' due to the fact that the quote seems to be lifted from this article, in which Sufjan actually says that he is "definitely not going to do a record about Texas birds or Florida birds." Techpeace 19:52, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Pronunciation of His First Name

I don't know how to properly write (in IPA technical terms) the pronunciation of Sufjan Stevens' first name but I do know its 'soof-yahn'. (See this article for proof.) Basically, I don't think the Wikipedia article has it right. 'Suf-jan' is not how you pronounce his name. So can someone who knows the IPA style correctly write the pronunciation of his name? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 199.212.8.44 (talk) 08:21, 19 March 2007 (UTC).

Yes, we know it's soof-yahn, and the IPA symbols are correct. The "j" in IPA is a "y" sound, as it is in the majority of European languages. Thanks for asking, though! -- Dhartung | Talk 09:08, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Speculation?

Quoting the Article (emphasis mine): "Casimir Pulaski Day" speaks of "All the glory that the Lord has made" in the midst of personal pain and loss, while also noting the limitations of personal faith, singing, "Tuesday night at the Bible study, we lift our hands and pray over your body but nothing ever happens."

That's some odd wording. Deciding what he is noting (that his faith is "limited") is speculation into this quote; who is to say that it isn't a statement of one time his "personal faith" failed him? Or that it's denouncing christianity altogether? Or that he's not making a theological statement on whether or not healing is possible?

Or that it's sarcasm? Or any other number of ridiculous things?

I vote we drop the (again) speculation.Lackinglatin 07:21, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

Agreed that all such inferences should be removed unless reliable sources are provided. –Pomte 07:29, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

Removing, as there has been no opposition against the proposed action. Lackinglatin 17:43, 4 April 2007 (UTC)