Talk:Subnetwork
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[edit] This article needs clarity?
I consider myself fairly technically savvy, but I’m no network admin. I found this article is highly technical and presents more theory rather then explanations. I might suggest it’s a challenging for anyone to understand this who doesn't already have an extensive knoweldge of networking terminology. I found the external link to the about.com article far more effective at describing what subnetworking really is with better examples. --Trode 18:31, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
- Sorry about that. I was trying to leave it pretty simple, but I'm sure it can be dumbed down some more. Taking too much away from the article would leave a lot of room for explanation, but simplifying the basics at the start would probably help. Strip away too many of the details and it becomes little more than an overglorified dicdef. Math articles tend to have the same problem. --Gamera2 20:59, 3 December 2005 (UTC)
- I agree, Trode. I can't make head or tail of it. Maybe add more explanation 88.111.52.30 15:17, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
- This article really needs more clarity. There is, for instance, no clear definition of what the subnet mask is or what role it plays in networking/ TCP/IP. Why are there only certain numbers allowed? How does it work exactly? The article assumes a certain amount of knowledge on behalf of the reader, which is fallacious encyclopedic practice.--Hieronymus 09:04, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
- I agree it could be much clearer. I have an EE degree and do a bit of network administrating on the side, but still found this a very difficult read.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.113.121.17 (talk • contribs) 06:51, September 28, 2006.
- I also agree that this article needs some rewording and cleanup. Its certainly not very clear even for someone who knows what subnetting is and how it is done.--Crossmr 16:27, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
- I looked up "Subnet Masks" as I wanted to know more about the subject. I was redirected to this page, to notice that "Subnet Mask" have an article link here even. Not being too much involved in the Wikipedia community, not knowing the rules, I'm posting here instead of editing the page. Should Subnet Mask be linked in the third paragraph? Johnathon. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 212.159.122.209 (talk) 12:40, 6 December 2006 (UTC).
i added a "simplify" tag for the reasons stated here—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 165.173.14.76 (talk • contribs) 01:30, December 14, 2006.
- If those are your only reasons then it can be removed. The article has been almost completely rewritten since these comments were posted.--Crossmr 02:08, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
Is there a typo under the 'Private subnets' subtitle? When you borrow 2 bits and examine the networks, shouldn't you get 192.168.1.0, .64, .128 and .192 networks only? .0 being all zeros and .192 being all ones taking those out. Then the theory behind calculating the amount of networks you get would match also (2^2-2 = 2).
- Cisco equipment allows the use of subnet zero, I'm not sure if other companies hardware allows this or not as well.--Crossmr 23:56, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Rewrite
Several people have been expressing concern that this was hard to understand. I've spent the last 90 minutes rewriting this article in, what I hope, an easier to understand method. I included some binary examples. I found that when I learned how to subnet seeing it as binary really made things easy for me to understand and grasp the concept. I've only copy edited it a small amount, so I'm sure it does require some of that. I've kept the links as I didn't have the time right now to go through them and make sure they all apply and I've kept a few of the paragraphs and one of the tables that was there before. I've tried to lay down a foundation of what a subnet mask is, what a network address is and how they work together. Any comments are welcome.--Crossmr 17:47, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Image caption
A graphic representation of relationships and source of the various variables representing a chunk of C subnets
"chunk" is an unprofessional term being used here, and that wording is confusing for someone who doesn't already understand subnets, IPv4 and all the terms associated with it. Referring to it as Class C makes it more clear what is being talked about. The other wording:
A graphic representation of the possible lengths of subnets in a class C network
Is a more accurate and concise description of what it is. They are indeed possible lengths, its possible you could have a subnet mask of any of those lengths in a class C network. It will certainly be one of them, but it its possible to be any of them. The image is certainly educational, which is why I didn't remove it, but it needs to be described better.--Crossmr 16:56, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
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- I agree that my description suffers from substandard wording but it does so for the higher purpose of acuratelly describing the image, to work on a better description i would like to highlight the features of the image that need to be reflected in it's description.
- it represents the last of the 4 octet blocks forming ALL of the 32 possible CIDR blocks , all 4 blocks being variations of a base data which is represented here , half of the C class (hence chunk and C)
- it depicts the way one value can be extracted from another and where do all the values come by color code and formula's in the header (hence relation and source)
- i have nothing against anyone crafting a description to both reflect these and be fluent--Mancini 17:28, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
- I agree that my description suffers from substandard wording but it does so for the higher purpose of acuratelly describing the image, to work on a better description i would like to highlight the features of the image that need to be reflected in it's description.
[edit] edit id 91277922 abusive edit
In relation to the http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Subnetwork&diff=91277922&oldid=91271869 edit , i agree with moving the image but otherwise please do not edit my edits anymore , concerning your stated reason for censoring my last edit the data was allready stated , which is false , not once does network address translation is mentioned.
I am in the process to rewrite this article in concordance with the Wikipedia:WikiProject_Computer_networking guidelines , and i was pointing out the history of subnets (reasons why it exists , alternatives) data that need to be in the header
Please comment on the talk page next time you have a issue about my edits not censor them.--Mancini 15:11, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
- Please see WP:OWN if you don't want your edits edited by other editors, do not edit here. The text you added was already covered further down in the article and it was unnecessary to repeat it in the beginning of the article. I've reinserted the part about the IPv4 shortage. NAT wasn't mentioned down below, but NAT has nothing to do with Subnetworking. However I'd already covered the concept of using fewer addresses by using subnetworks below. I've reinstated that piece as a bit of a summary. If someone doesn't understand subnetworking at all, giving a very brief and technical overview about borrowing bits isn't going to help them. As far as the guidelines go, they're guidelines and not policy regarding computer related topics.--Crossmr 15:24, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
- I do not have anything against the others , i resent your bad-faith censoring of my edits , i will present new content for voting on this page from now on and seek technical people to override your questionable expertise on the subject.--Mancini 16:24, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
- I didn't "censor" your edits in bad faith. I resent your bad faith assumption that I was doing it in bad faith. As far as technical expertise goes, if you've got a question about the way I've described something, feel free to ask it. You might also want to read WP:NPA comment on content not the contributors.--Crossmr 16:31, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
- Whatever reason your edit was non-constructive , Intentionally making non-constructive edits to Wikipedia will result in a block or permanent ban and instead of debating about it , i will do as i said and provide new content for voting on the talk page , i am not going to argue with someone that obviously does not even know that in computing a "chunked structure" represents recurrent chunks of slightly variable data--Mancini 16:41, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
- and attempting to own your contributions or making personal attacks will result in the same thing. My edit was constructive in repositioning an image and removing content that was covered further down in the article. You properly raised the point that perhaps not all of it should be removed and it was put back in. As far as chunks perhaps you should tell google, because "chunked structure" isn't a very widely used term.[1] which seems to mostly have to do with a specific file system type which have nothing to do with subnetworking, and an occasional linguistic reference. Using chunk in that context doesn't properly describe what that is--Crossmr 16:52, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
- I do not know what the problem is , but you could have said you reposted relevant data , i assummed bad-faith because we should work toghether , your actions point against.Do i really have to give google tips ? try "chunk structure" , it is widely used to describe data , and quite so in networking relating to packet structure , your description of chunk as an unprofessional term in the context is clearly without foundation.--Mancini 17:05, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
- Packet structure has nothing to do with the process of subnetting a network. The term is not used to describe subnets of a network unless its being used as slang. [2] [3] I see no evidence that the term is commonly used in regards to subnetting or networks in general, outside of speaking about the content of packets.--Crossmr 17:10, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
- I do not know what the problem is , but you could have said you reposted relevant data , i assummed bad-faith because we should work toghether , your actions point against.Do i really have to give google tips ? try "chunk structure" , it is widely used to describe data , and quite so in networking relating to packet structure , your description of chunk as an unprofessional term in the context is clearly without foundation.--Mancini 17:05, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
- and attempting to own your contributions or making personal attacks will result in the same thing. My edit was constructive in repositioning an image and removing content that was covered further down in the article. You properly raised the point that perhaps not all of it should be removed and it was put back in. As far as chunks perhaps you should tell google, because "chunked structure" isn't a very widely used term.[1] which seems to mostly have to do with a specific file system type which have nothing to do with subnetworking, and an occasional linguistic reference. Using chunk in that context doesn't properly describe what that is--Crossmr 16:52, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
- Whatever reason your edit was non-constructive , Intentionally making non-constructive edits to Wikipedia will result in a block or permanent ban and instead of debating about it , i will do as i said and provide new content for voting on the talk page , i am not going to argue with someone that obviously does not even know that in computing a "chunked structure" represents recurrent chunks of slightly variable data--Mancini 16:41, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
- I didn't "censor" your edits in bad faith. I resent your bad faith assumption that I was doing it in bad faith. As far as technical expertise goes, if you've got a question about the way I've described something, feel free to ask it. You might also want to read WP:NPA comment on content not the contributors.--Crossmr 16:31, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
- I do not have anything against the others , i resent your bad-faith censoring of my edits , i will present new content for voting on this page from now on and seek technical people to override your questionable expertise on the subject.--Mancini 16:24, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Merge Suggestion
I don't see the point of a merge here unless its to make the CIDR article huge. I could only see it being merged to have someone suggest that it be split up because both pieces are quite lengthy.--Crossmr 02:31, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
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- I also dissagree with the merge, quite the opposite should be done and move all info about the subnetting technique to it's own article and improve this one to describe clearly and in detail the subnet/subnetwork concept and it's operation.--Mancini 14:02, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
