Talk:Subculture

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[edit] Youth movements

I've added the 'rave-scene' and 'demoscene' under 'Youth movements', even through the scenes are very much alive, and includes many adults already (we're all just getting old arn't we?), should they be categorised as such? But if 'HipHop' is categorised as such, why shouldn't they? It's would be great if somebody with some background could expand the entry with some meaningful POVs on <subj>

I think the definition was a bit too broad, if it includes manga artists, furry artists, gamers, fans, etc.

[edit] Hobbies

The article states that a sub-culture "is a culture or set of people with distinct behavior and beliefs within a larger culture. The essence of a subculture, that distinguishes it from other social groupings, is awareness of style and differences in style, in clothing, music or other interests".

Does manga artist dress different than other? No. Does they have any disinct behavior or belief? Not really. They have a hobby, like everyone else. But a hobby is not the same as a culture. The list is more about "what is cool" than "what is subcultures".

For this reason, I have cut away a lot of the examples. The following has been removed:

--Kasper Hviid 18:57, 14 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I moved the list to List of subcultures - I've answered you there - David Gerard 19:43, 14 Nov 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Of - About problem

I would like to see more of this article about subculture rather than about the study of subculture. -Acjelen 21:57, 14 July 2005 (UTC)

Hmm. There's already an article called List of subcultures - it might be difficult to write about 'subculture as there aren't many experiences common to all subcultures. If you can be more specific, I'll try and add some stuff in. Do you mean different types of subculture (musical, political, social etc.)? Or do you mean material needs to be added on subcultural experiences?illWill 22:12, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
Both. It would also be nice to have information on how subcultures affect the larger culture, the criminization of some subcultures, etc. These would need to be examples, of course. In the article Cell (biology) only a few sentences and a brief timeline are spent on the discovery of the cell. This article spends much too much space on the "discovery" and study of subculture. -Acjelen 21:35, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
I'll try and add some stuff in over the next few days. The reason that there is so much material on the study and discovery of subculture is that it originated as an academic term - it was years before it appeared aoutside academia, and the use of the word in mass media often misses this academic context (in a similar way to Deconstruction). Also, a lot of people now argue that catgeorising cultures in terms of 'sub' and 'dominant' is incorrect. Maybe I will try and work that in too.illWill 03:21, 24 July 2005 (UTC)

The article Cult has a long, extensive discussion of cults generally, though cults vary as much as subcultures do. Moreover, hardly any room is given to treatment on the sociological study of cults or "cult theorists". In terms of the use of 'sub' or 'dominant' as prefixes or adjectives, there is Low German, Subcompact car, Low Countries, Dominant (Music), and Dominant gene. -Acjelen 14:44, 24 July 2005 (UTC)

I see your point, and will attempt to add more material. There is plenty that could be added on the incorporation of subcultures into the dominant culture. There is a difference between 'subculture' and 'cult' as terms though - 'subculture' became prominent via Hebdige an academic term to represent a specific way of theorsing culture, and was only used inside academia for some time, entering the mainstream in part due to Hebdige's work on Punk. In contrast, 'cult' was a concept that existed in popular vernacular long before anybody thought to call themselves a 'cult theorist'. On the other hand, you could probably say that my writing on the subject is biased, as subcultures are an area in which I do my academic research.
Also, what I meant by the use of the prefixes 'sub' and 'dominant' in terms of subculture is that it's a formulation which is being used less often within academia - theorists are now less likely to create an opposition between a 'dominant' culture and 'subcultures' simply because the two cannot be so easily separated. Anyway, material relating to this idea would have to go into a subsection to do with new academic theory, whcih I will be happy to write. Sorry if I'm being less helpful with the actual editing, I'm a little busy working on a paper today. I will try and dig out some references soon. illWill 17:34, 24 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Counterculture

This article is about countercultures, not subcultures. Subcultures aren't formed from rejection of norms, they're formed by assimilation. This entire article should be scrapped, and parts of it should go under counterculture. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by The Almighty Trickshot Jackelope Of Doom (talk • contribs) 13:57, 5 April 2007 (UTC).

[edit] simpler definition

I wrote a stripped-down definition of what a subculture is and added it to the intro to this article.--Andymussell 23:41, 23 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] post-subcultural studies

I think there needs to be more input from the post-subcultural studies perspective on this. For example, subcultures as constructs of, not simply targets of, media and economic appropriation. Although, I don't think there's any need to go into the modernity/post-modernity debate.

[edit] Readded

I readded some lost information that cites the references. Hyacinth 11:51, 2 April 2006 (UTC)


Perhaps the best argument on this is Mafessoli's concept of Neo-Tribes and Andy Bennet's adaptation

[edit] Removed

  • "More simply, subcultures are groups of individuals who, through a variety of methods (conspicuously clothing and behavior), present themselves in opposition to the mainstream trends of their culture. Their specifics vary immensely, and in fact many would find it appropriate to include groups as diverse as ravers, Nazi-Skinheads, BDSM fetishists, and fundamentalist Christians under the category 'subculture'."

I removed the above as it repeats information already in the article and I'm not sure how it is more simple. Hyacinth 11:52, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

"More simply, subcultures are groups of individuals who, through a variety of methods (conspicuous clothing and ostentatious behavior), present themselves in opposition to the mainstream trends of the mainstream culture that they are a part of."

I removed this as it was focusing on COUNTER CULTURES, and presenting them as what sub-culture are. It is misleading and wring to present them so. Corrupt one 03:50, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Difference between subculture and community

Any thoughts? I found two interesting readings realted to that: [1], [2]. It would be nice if we can have a para explaining that difference.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 20:45, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] resistant nature of subcultures

This article, particualr the definition given in the intro seems to say that all subcultures are resistant/rebellious in relation to the main culture. Can a subculture not also be a culture that is not shared by all people the culture but does not actively resist main culture? JenLouise 05:49, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

What type of people "mentally" tend to join subcultures?

[edit] Skater

As it occurs to me one particular group of people have always been included in the whole genre of subculture, but it seems to me that their is no particular belief that defines this group of people. I'm speaking, of coarse, of the skater clique. I doubt that there is any vast expanse of knowledge of the skaters online at all, but it seems that they have been included with other subcultures, for example; the other day I was online and I saw a quiz (on quizfarm.com I believe) in which the title thereof read "which group are, goth, emo, or skater?" now goth and emo are both subcultures, but skater? Skateboarding is a sport and the participants thereof wouldn't be expected to have any subcultural beliefs, however they may fall into the category of subcultures that rely on commercialization. I haven't read all of the article but of what I have, I haven't found anything on skater. Perhaps skaters should be mentioned here (or perhaps if it is it shouldn't). Other opinions? Randy6767 14:28, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

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