Talk:Stuart Sutcliffe

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Start This article has been rated as Start-Class on the assessment scale.		This Beatles-related article is within the scope of The Beatles WikiProject, a collaborative effort to improve and expand Wikipedia coverage of The Beatles, Apple Records, George Martin, Brian Epstein/NEMS, and related topics. You are more than welcome to join the project and/or contribute to discussion.	High This article has been rated as High importance on the importance scale.
		Suggested article edit guidelines: New additions to articles should be attributed to reliable and verifiable sources, using inline citations per the Project's style guide. The system is very easy to use so please do try to help by following this guideline. Most articles should be written in British English. Some terms may be different from - or non-existent in - American English, and some spellings may differ. For more information, see American and British English differences. Document exceptions on the talk page of the article and here. It is Project policy that (with possible exceptions depending on context) all article references to the band's name should be in title case ("The Beatles" and not "the Beatles") If this article is Unassessed, please assess it. See the Article Assessment Department for instructions. If you disagree with a rating, you can change it or discuss it at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject The Beatles/Assessment. This article is also within the scope of WikiProject Musicians, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed biographical guide to musicians on Wikipedia.
Article Grading: The article has been rated for quality and/or importance but has no comments yet. If appropriate, please review the article and then leave comments here to identify the strengths and weaknesses of the article and what work it will need.
The Beatles To-do: You can HELP!: Open tasks for WikiProject The Beatles. Edit or discuss these tasks. As the project is currently just starting, our more experienced editors are working on the project infrastructure, classifying articles, and listing/assessing red links. Your assistance is welcome. If you would prefer to just edit - and why wouldn't you? - we have a choice selection of red links to turn blue and articles to clean! Now let's get busy. To Expand: Apple Records See also: Adopt an article To Clean up: Apple Records discography (wikify). The Beatles' 1965 USA Tour. To Merge: To Create: Phil McDonald (engineer). Lennon/McCartney songs: I'll Keep You Satisfied (produced by George Martin), From A Window. George Martin produced Billy J. Kramer song: Magic Carpet (song). Songs covered by The Beatles: Hippy Hippy Shake. The Big Three. Bag o'Nails, where Paul met Linda. Macca single: My Brave Face. Articles on each Beatle tour (Category:The Beatles tours). Full list & instructions. Lists to complete: Wanted Pics/Graphics: Mal Evans, Flying (song), Astrid Kirchherr, Jimmy Nicol, Cynthia Powell, Alistair Taylor, Ivan Vaughan, Tittenhurst Park, Tony Barrow. We need a better open-licenced photo for the project, to replace the Abbey Road crossing. If you provide a photo, please remove the ReqPhoto tag from the article's talk page and remove the article from this list. Project Discussions: The Beatles history, Individual songs vs longer album articles, Beatle wives, Merge/split proposals Project: Add {{WPBeatles}} to the talk pages of all Beatles-related articles. Send a newsletter to members, canvas for new members, and coordinate tasks. Enter articles classed as stubs into this list (under To Expand) and also list articles needing cleaning and other work here. If you complete one of these tasks, please remove it from the list and add your achievement to the project log.

It is requested that a photograph or photographs be included in this article to improve its quality.

[edit] Hofner President?

IMDB trivia cites Sutcliffe's Hofner President as apocryphal(http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0106339/trivia). Gaberlunzie

What is your point? The article you refer to says "In the film, Stephen Dorff as Sutcliffe played a Hofner President Bass with chrome humbucker pick-ups. In real life, Stuart Sutcliffe played one with wood single coil pick-ups." So he had single coil pick ups, not chrome humbucker ones? Is this important? Paul B 12:32, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Moptop hairstyle

Sutcliffe was not the first member of The Beatles to have this haircut, it was John and Paul. Jurgen Volmer states in The Beatles Off The Record by Keith Badman: "I was combing my hair forward as an act against the bourgeois horrors in Hamburg. The barbers there always cut it too short, so I cut my own hair, but I never did anyone else's. So when John and Paul came to Paris I gave them this haircut. It was their idea to to have it the same as mine". Sutcliffe copied John and Paul. Vera, Chuck & Dave 17:25, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "Sometimes refered to as Fifth Beatle"?

He Was the fifth Beatle, no sometimes about it! Vera, Chuck & Dave 20:34, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Several other people have also been called that. See Fifth Beatle. Paul B 23:07, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

I understand what your'e saying Paul, but this fifth Beatle nonsense is exactly that: media nonsense. There was only one fifth Beatle, and his name was Stu Sutcliffe. Cheers, Vera, Chuck & Dave 15:20, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

It doesn't alter the fact that he is sometimes referred to by that label, and that other people are also sometimes so-called. We can't just insist that one usage is right and the others wrong. Paul B 15:26, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Yes we can, when one usage IS right and the others ARE wrong, as is the case here. Vidor 06:09, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

They aren't wrong, because the word is not used with the literal meaning of "fifth member of the on-stage performers", they are just uses of the label to imply an extra people who contributed to the group. If it were being used literally, it wouldn't even be true, since Sutcliffe was not the "fifth" person to join the group. He became a member before Pete Best, and obviously before Ringo, yet no one refers to Ringo as the "sixth Beatle" do they? Paul B 13:49, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] sexuality

Weren;t ther rumours that he and John had sex together in the early sixties/late fifties? I think the reference is in Goldman's book. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Peterkeith99 (talk • contribs) 02:49, 24 December 2006 (UTC).

That is the only place these "rumours" seem to appear, and Goldman's book has been denounced time and again by people who knew John Lennon, up to and including Paul McCartney, who would have known if anyone knew. (This despite Goldman's portrayal of McCartney as the only real talent in the Beatles.) Zephyrad 04:10, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 500/5 or President bass?

Why is the model of the guitar being changed? The reference identifies it as a President and Klaus Voorman signed the authentication statement. surely he of all people, would know which model Sutcliffe had? Cheers, Vera, Chuck & Dave 02:45, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

hi there. i've got a 1959 500/5 bass so consider myself a bit of an expert/geek on these things. it's true that this model evolved into the similar-looking (and much more popular) president, but the president bass didn't come out until the early 1960s and had different pickups and slightly altered styling.

there are many internet links to verify these facts. http://vintagehofner.mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/basses/bas18.html http://www.recmusicbeatles.com/public/files/bbs/bass-player.html (interview with paul mccartney) http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/hofner/collect/col9.html

these are just three such links. try doing a google search for "hofner 500/5" if you want more. the link in the article to the auction site merely demonstrates that auctioneers are not guitar experts! if you'd like more info about this please visit http://ccgi.harrisonwass.plus.com/sms/index.php

In 1959 in Europe only, this model was known as the 500/5-President Bass.Hofner's web site I've amended the article accordingly Cheers, Vera, Chuck & Dave 23:50, 14 February 2007 (UTC)