User:Striver/Umar's raid against Ahl al-Bayt

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Aban ibn Abi Ayyash has narrated from Sulaym bin Qais. He (Sulaym) heard from Salman Farsi, who said:

. . . He went and requested permission from Hadrath Ali . Hadrath Ali refused permission. The helpers of Qunfuz returned to Abu Bakr and Umar. There two were sitting in the mosque with people gathered around them. They all told that they were not given permission by Hadrath Ali. Umar told them to go back to Hadrath Ali and if he refuses, enter without permission. They went and asked permission. Lady Fatimah told them that she was not permitting them to enter. They returned, but Qunfuz, the cursed, remained. His companions told that Lady Fatimah had such and such, and she was not permitting them to enter. Umar said angrily: "What do we have to do with women?"

Then Umar told those people who had gathered around him to collect wood. They all collected, and Umar himself lifted and went to the house of Hadrath Ali, and Lady Fatimah and their two sons, and arranged wood all around the house and then said in a voice loud enough to make Hadrath Ali and Lady Fatimah hear: "By God, O Ali, come out and pay allegiance to the caliph of the Prophet of Allah, otherwise we will burn your house,"

Lady Fatimah said: "O Umar, what do you have to do with us?"

He replied: "Open the door, otherwise we will burn your house."

Lady Fatimah said: "O Umar, are you not afraid of Allah and are you entering our house?"

Umar refused to return. He asked fire to be brought and he set the door on fire, then he pushed it and entered. Lady Fatimah came infront and screamed loudly: "O Father, O Prophet of Allah."

Umar raised his sword with the shield and hit her on the side. She screamed: "O Father." He then lifted a whip and hit her on the hand and she cried: "O Prophet of Allah, Abu Bakr and Umar behaved very badly after you."

Hadrath Ali rushed, held him by neck and pushed him away and Umar fell down and hurt his neck and nose. Hadrath Ali intended to kill him. He remembered what the Holy Prophet had said, and he said: "By Him, who gave Muhammad the status of prophethood, O son of Sahak, if the book from Allah had not been revealed and if the Holy Prophet had not taken a promise from me before, then you would have known that you could have never entered by house."

Umar, complaining, sent somebody, and some people came and entered the house. Hadrath Ali went forward to lift his sword, so Qunfuz returned to Abu Bakr and Abu Bakr was frightened that Hadrath Ali with his sword, would go to him, since he knew Hadrath Ali's bravery and determination.

. . .Salman said: "Hadrath Ali was taken to Abu Bakr and he was saying: "By God, of I had my sword in my hand, the you would see that you would have never reached this stage. By God, I do not consider myself bad in doing jihad with you. If I had even forty people then I would have dispersed your community. May God curse that community who paid allegiance to me and then became disloyal." . . .

Kitab Sulaim bin Qais, Hadith # 4

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/lofiversion/index.php/t58506.html

Shia accept narrations such as the Burning of Alis house as authentic, do not belive Abu Bakr was truthfull with regards to Muhammads inheritance and also belive that had no right to confiscate The Land of Fadak. But foremost: Shia conclude that they went against Muhamamds explicit orders regading succesion given at Ghadir Khumm. Shia belive that when Umar arranged for the consultation leading to the election of Uthman, he made a conscious desicion to make it impossible for Ali to win, and easy to Uthman to win, in practice giving away the Muslim empire to islams former arch-enemy, the Umayyads. This leading to the battle of Karbala where almost all male relatives of Muhamamd became decapitated. All of this makes manny shias to conclude that Umar and Abu Bakr and some others where the enemies of Ahl al-Bayt.

Please help improve this article or section by expanding it.
Further information might be found on the talk page or at requests for expansion.

Every Muslims equats being the enemy of God, the enemy of Muhammad and the enemy of Ahl al-Bayt as equals. Sunni tend to extend that to include all the Sahaba.

If, for example a Christian opposes Muhammad beliving he is missguided, since the Christian belives the teachings of the Cristian church to be more sound, that would in most cases not cause a Muslim to label the christian as a enemie of God, since the christian belives he is acting on behalf of God. However, a Atheist doing so risks a higher chance of becoming labeled as a enemy of God. Much is dependent of the mindsett of the cirtique.

In fact, there are several narrations of Christians opposing Muhamamd, whithout Muhammad viewing them as enemies.

1 See also
- 1.1 dfkjghd
- 1.2 sdfdf
2 "liar, sinful, treacherous and dishonest"
3 x

[edit] See also

Equating God, Muhammad and Ahl al-Bayts authority

[edit] dfkjghd

http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1643&page=1&pp=10 http://www.galaxydastak.com/books/karbala/

[edit] sdfdf

Could someone add that Ibn Abbas was pro-Mut'ah?

And also that he was an expert in Quran comentaries that was often consulted by Umar, and was admited to be wiser than the later...

--Striver 16:27, 18 Mar 2005 (UTC)

This article WAS not nuetral. Abdullah ibn abbas is respected by sunnis and shias. Saying he thought Omar and abu bakr were liars is being biased and being shia centric. and hence has to be removed.

Biased? Says who? Shahih Muslim includes it as authentic, so in no way is that shia centric. I know Sunnis like Ibn Abbas, everyone does. But that doesent change his oppinions, that have been authenticated by both Shia and Sunnis --Striver 21:46, 9 September 2005 (UTC)

sahih muslim? where? could you please give reference???

here --Striver 23:01, 19 September 2005 (UTC)

Ibn Abbas believing that? non sense. He was a rafida and belived both Umar and Abu bakr to be treacherous liars and sinners. Further, Google does not give any hits on a quote that would be on ALL wahabi sites, if it existed. --Striver 15:36, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

Rafida? sheesh dude you are something. He was purely from ahl-us-sunnah and not ahl ul bidah.

And i guess you dont understand english so well. If you read the complete hadith, It talks about a dispute between Ali and ibn abbas. Ibn abbas calls Ali a "liar, sinful, treacherous and dishonest" person. And not Abu bakr and umar. Please for heavens sake dont misquote ibn abbas from sunni texts. Umar according to the sunni commentators mis understood what ibn abbas was talikng about.

Im going to edit what you have written here.

Odd - I was just sent the same question a while back.

I took a check at Fath Al Bari of Ibn Hajar and came up with the following.

NOTE: This is incomplete and I will try to complete the second half in a few days.

Firstly, before addressing the core issue, everyone has to be aware that unlike the Shias we do not consider anyone Infallible (ma'sum) save the Prophet[s] - Allah bless them -. Thus, whatever errors may be attributed to Sayyidina Ali or Sayyidina Abu Bakr or Sayyidina Abbas are a result of what arises due to human nature. You will see disagreements and quarrels between Sayyidina Umar and Abu Bakr aswell, even between the Ahly Bayt themselves.

However, there are numerous versions of this narration - some of which state the phrase and others which do not. In the Sahih of Imam Bukhari, this phrase is not mentioned, and in the narration of Sahih Muslim, it is. As the student of hadith knows, the most authentic hadith are those present in both Sahih Bukhari and Muslim (meaning: both of them agreed on a hadith and both mentioned it in there books) and then the Sahih of Bukhari and then the Sahih of Muslim. Since the Sahih Bukhari is more authentic then the Sahih of Muslim, the text of the hadith present in Bukhari is given more weight then that of Sahih Muslim, unless proven otherwise.

There are two parts to the narration:

1. Abbas calling Ali a Liar and treachorous. 2. Umar saying Ali thought of Abu Bakr as a liar.

We shall go over each:

1. In Bukhari the hadith states:

فقال عباس يا أمير المؤمنين اقض بيني وبين هذا وهما يختصمان فيما أفاء الله على رسوله صلى الله عليه وسلم من مال بني النضير

without mentioning the phrase "decide (the dispute) between me (Abbas) and this sinful, treacherous, dishonest liar (Ali)."

Shaikh Al Islam In Hajar stated in his Sharh on Sahih Bukhari i.e. Fath Al Bari that there are variant versions:

زاد شعيب ويونس ‏"‏ فاستب علي وعباس ‏"‏

- Shuayb and Yunus added that Ali and Abbas called each other names.

وفي رواية عقيل عن ابن شهاب في الفرائض ‏"‏ اقض بيني وبين هذا الظالم؛

- In the version of Uqayl from Ibn Shihab (Zuhri) in 'The shares of Inheritance' (it says) 'Decide between me (Abbas) and this unjust one (Ali)'.

وفي رواية جويرية ‏"‏ وبين هذا الكاذب الآثم الغادر الخائن ‏"

- In the version of Juwariyya, 'Between this perfidous, deceitful, wrongdoing liar.'

The above variants, one can be found in the Sahih of Imam Muslim which states that Abbas said to Umar:

- Commander of the Faithful, decide (the dispute) between me and this sinful, treacherous, dishonest liar.

Therefore, the hadith in Muslim is not only negative to Abu Bakr (or so it seems) but it is certainly negative to the Prophets Family aswell.

The Shias - if they accept the Sahih Muslim version - would have to agree that Sayyidina Abbas - the senior member of Ahly Bayt and the uncle of the Prophet - called Ali a "Liar" and "treacherous".

So then why condemn Ali for thinking this way of Abu Bakr when Abbas thought this way of Ali? Was it because Ali was "actually" a liar that Abbas said this or because of a disagreement and heated emotions? The Shias can answer this for themselves. Continuing with Allahs help:

2. We have already discussed the first part of the narration where Sayyidina Abbas called Sayyidina Ali a liar and so forth. We shall now go onto the second part regarding Sayyidina Umar and Abu Bakr.

Firstly, once again, this version is only mentioned in the Sahih of Imam Muslim, and not in Bukhari. In Bukhari it merely states:

ثم توفى الله نبيه صلى الله عليه وسلم فقال أبو بكر أنا ولي رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم فقبضها أبو بكر فعمل فيها بما عمل رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم والله يعلم إنه فيها لصادق بار راشد تابع للحق ثم توفى الله أبا بكر فكنت أنا ولي أبي بكر فقبضتها سنتين من إمارتي أعمل فيها بما عمل رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم وما عمل فيها أبو بكر والله يعلم إني فيها لصادق بار راشد تابع للحق

without the use of the phrase "Deceitful, treachorous, liar" but simply enumerating the trustworthiness and truthfulness of Abu Bakr and Umar.

Further, in the Fath Al Bari it states:

"‏ وفي رواية مسلم من الزيادة ‏"‏ فجئتما، تطلب ميراثك من ابن أخيك، ويطلب هذا ميراث امرأته من أبيها، فقال أبو بكر قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم‏:‏ لا نورث ما تركنا صدقة، فرأيتما كاذبا آثما غادرا خائنا ‏"‏

meaning, in the narration of Muslim there was more, and then Ibn Hajar went on to show the narration stating what Umar said Ali and Abbas thought regarding Sayyidina Abu Bakr.

Ibn Hajar follows this by stating:

وكأن الزهري كان يحدث به تارة فيصرح،

meaning, the narrator of the hadith Zuhri would sometimes not mention it and sometimes he would.

وتارة فيكنى وكذلك مالك وقد حذف ذلك في رواية بشر بن عمر عنه عند الإسماعيلي وغيره وهو نظير ما سبق من قول العباس لعلي وهذه الزيادة من رواية عمر عن أبي بكر حذفت من رواية إسحاق الفروي شيخ البخاري وقد ثبت أيضا في رواية بشر بن عمر عنه عند أصحاب السنن والإسماعيلي وعمرو بن مرزوق وسعيد بن داود كلاهما عند الدار قطني عن مالك على ما قال جويرية عن مالك،

meaning, Imam Malik did not mention it in Bishr ibn Umars narration from him, with Al Ismaili and others, which is the same as that of what was mentioned about Abbas and Ali. It was also not mentioned in Ishaq Al Farawis narration, Imam Bukharis Shaikh. It is also established in the narration of Bish ibn Umar by the writers of the Sunans and al Ismaili and Amr ibn Marzuq and Sa'id ibn Dawud, both of them with Daraqtuni from Malik....

Lastly, the issue is mostly regarding rhetoric i.e. concerning Arabic Balagha.

This phrase actually means:

- So you both think he was a liar, treacherous and dishonest?? (Note: he uses the words Sayyidina Abbas used for Sayyidina Ali verbatim to make a point.)

Further proof of this point is, if Sayyidina Ali and Abbas actually considered both Umar and Abu bakr to be liars and deceitful, why would they - with this opinion - go to Sayyidina Umar and ask him to make a decision between them regarding their dispute? Obviously our Shia friends will not be willing to accept this, but then again, reading narrations by means of English translations with limited understanding of the language does lead to false presumptions. However, the same type of rhetoric is also present in the English language.

This reminds of the narration that Shias use to slander Sayyidina Muawiyah that goes:

- The Prophet said of Muawiyah, "May Allah not fill his belly."

Had our Shia brothersbeen even remotely familiar with the Arabic language, they would know that this means "May his sustenance be without end". Actually, in Semitic cultures when someone is presumed to die soon they say so-and-so has reached his fill of food.

Regardless, I strongly advise these people to stop reading English translations and for once actually read the actual Arabic.

And Allah knows best

I am disputing the neutrality of this article as it needs to be re-written from a non-muslims point of view. No shia centricism or sunni centricism please! This is also no place to interpret each others religios texts. Please remove all disputable content. Or atleast have both the groups say their part. instead of removing the others' views.

Be sensible. -Unsigned

[edit] "liar, sinful, treacherous and dishonest"

Salam aleikom dear brother/sister in Islam. I pray you are in good health and spirit!

I hope we both can come to a neutral non-view text with some cooperation.

You wrote:

Rafida? sheesh dude you are something. He was purely from ahl-us-sunnah and not ahl ul bidah.

Rafidah means refuser. That is, refuse to give allegiance to Abu Bakr. As you know, Ali was the head of Banu Hashim afther Muhamamd, pbuh, and also Ibn Abbas tutor. Ali was a rafidah according to both Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim, and Ibn Abbas followed paht the of his tutor and clan head.

Firts of all, i the text does not stated that Ibn Abbas said they where liars, sinful, treacherous and dishonest.

This is how the text went:

At the begining of Umar's reign as Caliph, Ibn Abbas and Ali went to Umar to get their inheritance now that Abu Bakr passed away. Umar refused, arguing that Abu Bakr heard what he claimed. Therefore they both thought Umar and Abu Bakr were "liars, sinful, treacherous and dishonest" ^{Sahih Muslim 19.4349}.

As is clea, the text stated that ibn Abbas and Ali thought they where "liars, sinful, treacherous and dishonest" becase of the inheritance dispute with Umar and Abu Bakr. And that is stated most accuratly in the Hadith from Sahih Muslim:

When the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) passed away, Abu Bakr said:" I am the successor of the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him)." Both of you came to demand your shares from the property (left behind by the Messenger of Allah). (Referring to Hadrat 'Abbas), he said: You demanded your share from the property of your nephew, and he (referring to 'Ali) demanded a share on behalf of his wife from the property of her father.

As is clear so far, Umar is reteling history. He reminds that when Abu Bakr came in power, both Ali And Ibn Abbas demanded

Abu Bakr (Allah be pleased with him) said: The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) had said:" We do not have any heirs; what we leave behind is (to be given in) charity." So both of you thought him to be a liar, sinful, treacherous and dishonest. And Allah knows that he was true, virtuous, well-guided and a follower of truth. When Abu Bakr passed away and (I have become) the successor of the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) and Abu Bakr (Allah be pleased with him), you thought me to be a liar, sinful, treacherous and dishonest. And Allah knows that I am true, virtuous, well-guided and a follower of truth. I became the guardian of this property. Then you as well as he came to me.