Talk:Steyr AUG

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Contents

[edit] cleanup users section

someone vaguely knowledgable please cleanup at least the first para of this section. its hideous Qleem 00:52, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

I agree, there also seems to be a few sentences that need to be removed as they appear to be nothing more than opinion or rumour, unless the original author/s can come up with some references. I was also considering separate sub-headings for each country in a similar way to other pages, however there's not a great deal of information on each and it might look a bit sparse.Six-Four 06:12, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Does AUG mean anything?

Does AUG mean anything? —No-One Jones 21:45, 5 May 2004 (UTC)

Armee Universal Gewehr -- Cabalamat 15:04, 22 May 2004 (UTC)

[edit] ROF

Previous quoted ROF appears to be wrong; I have 3 reference books all of which state it as 650 rpm. -- Cabalamat 15:03, 22 May 2004 (UTC)

I am a former user of this weapon in the NZDF, i recall the cyclic rate of fire being around 600 rpm, although it is possible that weapon fires faster when the gas plug is at the 'adverse' setting Xcomradex 03:05, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
I believe you're correct. Adverse does up the rpm if i recall correctly. TinyPirate 21:33, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Muzzle velocity

Reference works I have give muzzle velocity as 970 or 980 m/s. Added both figures to the text -- Cabalamat 15:18, 22 May 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Notoriety?

The AUG has gained notoriety in popular culture, and has made numerous appearances in films, TV, comics and computer games such as Counter-Strike.

Is "notoriety" trying to imply that is a bad weapon, or that it is a deadly one? It is without a doubt my favorite Counter-Strike: Source primary weapon. Captain Jackson 03:18, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

I believe it just implies that it has become a well-known firearm due to its inovative design. --Squalla 19:36, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Australian Use

Incorrect. The Australian Army does not use the Steyr Aug. Army uses the F88 Aus Steyr, a variant. 203.219.14.62 21:47, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

.....the F88 is exactly the same ....... so no it's not incorrect.
The AusSteyr is made in Australia and is regarded as being of lesser quality (the monopod 'rattles' about more, for example) than the Austrian version. Does this make it a varient? More like a locally-produced copy I guess. TinyPirate 21:35, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
  • Yeah, it would be a variant, hence your statement that the Aussie model is considered inferior to the Austrian one.

[edit] Malaysian Usage

Just saw a Malaysian TV news item where they are going to replace with M4. Sorry, wasn't paying much attention so don't have more details.


Here's a media page from the Australian Defence Force website with photos taken of the AFP and Royal Malaysian Army working on Operation Astute. Nearly all the photos of Malaysian Troops, there a is a solider with Steyr AUG. I'm not sure if they are the Australian made F88's though. http://www.defence.gov.au/opastute/images/gallery/20060621a/index.htm That said, some of the soliders also have M16's with M203 GLAs, the Styer is probably not their main rifle anyway. So yeah, the Malaysian army still seems to be using Steyrs(the media page is for June 2006), and that should be reflected in the article.BrotherEstapol 14:10, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Don't think the Steyr AUG placed second to the M16 in Australia

the gun is lighter than the M16, you don't need a screwdriver to set it apart and it has an optical scope, which allows you to actually hit someone 300 m away

Furthermore the Steyr AUG is used in much more countries than the M16 and even Israel (and Malaysia) developed their own rifle, which both are a copy of the Steyr AUG (might want to include that)

I hightly doubt it placed second to the M16 and I highly doubt that special forces use a standard M16 rifle

Your oppinion duly noted. :) I read in the article that the Auggie was chosen because Colt, USA didn't want to license the manufacture of the M-16. If that is true, then that generally means the M-16 did win, and the Australian government wanted it more than the Auggie.
Where do you get the idea you need a screwdriver to get an M16 apart? If you are an armorer disassembling certain parts, or are trying to remove the butt plate and rear sling swivel, OK I could see you needing a couple specialty tools, but to disassemble it for cleaning and lube it's a snap. You might need a pair of needle-nosed pliers to pull out that pesky retaining pin holding in the firing pin, but persistence and fingernails will do wonders.
As to the range, there are yearly National Service Rifle Matches held by the Marines at Camp Perry, Ohio, USA in which you can only fire an actual U.S. service rifle or a rifle closely based on a service rifle design (i.e. a 'civilian' version). People use the M1 Garand, M-14/M1A, M1 carbine, and yes, M-16/AR-15. Target ranges are 100, 200, 300, 600, and 1000 yards. Yes, people compete (and win) at the longer ranges with M-16/AR-15 type rifles using open sights ('iron sights'; the competition rules forbid optical sighting devices). Sure the scope is impressive and snazzy looking, and perhaps functional at moderate ranges, but it's just that much more to worry about cleaning and breaking.
Special forces using an M-16? Maybe, but I doubt it - they prefer to kill the enemy. The 5.56x45mm NATO round was chosen partly because of it's tendency to injure - not kill - the enemy, so that it would hinder the opposing forces with lots of wounded they would have to take care of (if you faced an enemy that cared - that point was sort of missed by Kennedy's Whiz Kids). Special forces usually prefer weapons with a high first-hit kill ratio, which is the reason you see them still using 'dinosaurs' like the M-14 and FN-FAL. See 5.56mm for more info on that round. ~~ —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 137.246.204.40 (talk) 04:49, 7 December 2006 (UTC).
  • American SF are trained in all sorts of weapons, including the M-16/4. There is the desire among the top military heads to give them their own special weapon (the SCAR IIRC) as their standard issue weapon, but until that comes about, they use what the rest of the US military uses. And the 5.56x45mm NATO round was chosen because of its effectiveness at killing people. That's the whole purpose behind firing at an enemy. If you wound or incapacitate a an enemy soldier in combat, that is fine and well, but you can't rely on that. And where does the M-14 even come into discussion? I don't even think there's any National Guard units that still use those anymore. I mean, not to sound trite, but you're just posting a much of misinformation.

I believe he is referring to the fact that during the Battle of Mogadishu one soldier was noted as using an M14 because he believed it to have better stopping power. Which turned out to be true, as the armor piercing rounds issued for the M16 were found to pass through an unarmored person and not cause much damage. It would take an unusually large number of hits by M16s to take down a person, but this one man's M14 was killing with the first few shots. Now keep in mind, that was against targets that weren't wearing any sort of armor, if the Somalis had been wearing some sort of effective body armor; that would have slowed down the rounds enough to have them stay in the body causing greater internal damage.--LWF 18:15, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Safety catch

I read in the article the comment "The safety catch slides from side to side through the weapon, with one position (pushed fully right) being "safe" and another (pushed fully left) being "full automatic". The middle position sets the weapon to "semi automatic""

I used the Steyr for 12 years in the Australian Army, the safety catch only had two positions, safe (Right) and fire (Left). Control of your shots was done through trigger manipulation, if the trigger was depressed fully to the rear it fired automatic, a lighter trigger pull produced single shots. Underneath the trigger was a small switch which could be pulled down. This was the automatic fire lock-out button. When pulled out it allowed only single shots.

Having said that, i've been out for about five years, has there been a re-design? 220.233.56.215 11:29, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

I only served in the Austrian Army for 8 months, but IIRC there was no extra trigger and the safety catch only had two positions. Firing automatic or firing a single shot depended on how hard you pulled the trigger. If I pulled the trigger halfways back, a single shot was fired; had I pulled it harder to the very back, the weapon would start firing automatically (wasn't allowed to do that though). --Wirthi 09:00, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
this has been fixed now Qleem 15:23, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Single shot and Automatic is controlled by an Automatic Lockout on the base of the trigger. Pushed up is fully automatic. Pulled down is semi automatic. At least, that's the way with the version used in Ireland.

im going to rv the change in the article and shoot an email off to steyr/ do some googling to see if we can resolve this. seems to me the different variants might have diff mechanisms for selective fire. anyway, if youd like to change it back please provide a citation. Qleem 21:55, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
ok according to the steyr website, the a1, a2, and a3 have the pullthrough trigger. its not specified for the 9mm, just says fully auto optional:
a3 >> http://www.steyrarms.com/index.php?id=33
Safety:
Lateral push-through type locks trigger
Trigger:
"Pull-through" trigger system. Fires semi-automatic when pulled halfway to a clearly felt point, fires fully automatic when pulled fully back.
perhaps the irish version has a secondary lockout as well, preventing the trigger from being fully pulled back?
anyway, final conclusion, unless some1 can send in a video or something, i say trust the steyr homepageQleem 20:47, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Falkland Islands Regiment

I read in the article the comment that this gun is in use by the Falklands Defence Regiment. Since that are trained by the British army, and would fight alongside them in case of an invasion I am very surprised by this ( although they are independntly funded ). I would assume the SA80. Can someone explain this? 145.253.108.22 12:33, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Unsourced Section

I'm moving the 'Users' section here for now because none of it is referenced. Please return any or all of this information to the article after it has been sourced. --Wasted Sapience 21:43, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Users

It has been used by the British SAS and other organizations in a counter-terrorism role. It is also currently in use by the U.S. Customs Service. In Austrian service it is designated StG-77 (for Sturmgewehr 77). The Steyr AUG and Steyr AUG HB (HBAR) are used by Luxembourg's army as well. The rifle is further used in the Philippines by the elite Scout Rangers, in Pakistan by the Army and Naval Special Service Groups and the Pakistani ASF (Airports Security Force). The Puerto Rican Army uses this weapon after the 2007 weapon trial.

There are semi-automatic versions that meet U.S. gun law restrictions; these have met with some popularity as a civilian rifle there.

An AUG family based on the AUG A3 was rumored to compete for the U.S. Army's OICW Increment 1 competition, a program to replace the M4 carbine, M16, and M249 machine gun.[citation needed] However, the OICW Increment 1 competition was put on hold and eventually cancelled in 2005.

The AUG also has a modified Australian variant, the F-88 Austeyr, which is the standard service rifle of the Australian Defence Force and the New Zealand Defence Force. There is also a shorter carbine variant (with a shorter barrel) which is used primarily by corps operating in vehicles (such as armour, transport and cavalry regiments).

In Australian service the F88 lost out in trials to the M16A2, while the IMI Galil placed third. The decision to adopt the F88 AUSTEYR was made after Colt refused to grant the licence to produce the M16A2 family of rifles under licence at Australian Defence Industries Lithgow[citation needed]

The safety catch on the Australian F-88 Austeyr has had its serviceability called into question on a number of occasions [citation needed]. The safety catch slides from side to side through the weapon, with one position (pushed fully right) being "safe" and another (pushed fully left) being "fire". In the past, however, there has been a tendency for the catch to lose its ability to lock in either of the positions (i.e. the "click" is lost and the safety catch slides freely (or too easily) from side to side) and thereby risk compromising the safety of the weapon. As a result, the Australian Defence Force has improved maintenance schedules and instructs its members to constantly check the condition ("safe" or "fire") of their weapons in a large range of situations (for example, when picking up or putting down the weapon, when handing it to or receiving it from someone, when changing between most degrees of weapon readiness, etc.).

Austrian soldiers with AUG
Austrian soldiers with AUG

In the Irish Defence Forces the Steyr AUG was selected after more than two years of exhaustive technical assessment by the Army Ordnance Corps and field trials by units throughout the Defence Forces, to replace the FN FAL that had been in use since the early 1960s. Initially a total of nine weapons (Beretta AR70/90, the Colt M16A2, the Enfield L85A1, the FN FNC, the HK G41, the IMI Galil, the FAMAS, the SIG SG550, and the Steyr AUG) from various countries were evaluated technically in firing trials, each firing thousands of rounds while their accuracy and reliability were gauged. Deliveries of the Steyr AUG to the Irish Defence Forces began in 1988. Today the Steyr is the primary infantry weapon of the Permanent & Reserve elements of Ireland's military forces, although it was not introduced into the Reserve Defence Force until 2001.

It is also used by the Falkland Islands Defence Force.

The Malaysian Armed Forces proposes to replace the Steyr AUG with the M4 Carbine by 2007.

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