Talk:Stephen I of Hungary

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Contents

[edit] Old Talk

An event mentioned in this article is an August 20 selected anniversary.

Where have the writer of this article found the info on his children? I've only known about Imre and Ottó. As for Ágota being his daughter, I thought this was already dismissed as not proven. In the article of her daughter Saint Margaret of Scotland she is called "a kinswoman of Gisela". Alensha 22:53, 14 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I removed outdated info on Stephen's children. Hopefully someone will write an article on Andras I, a leader of the anti-Istvan party. Ghirlandajo 10:47, 20 Jan 2005 (UTC)

The Catholic encyclopedia gives baptismal date as 985 for both Geza and Stephen, and then accession in 997. A little medieval dictionary I have gives 975 for Geza's baptism and gives no date for Stephen's. It's a problem.

Opinion seems to favour 985 or 986, or when Stephen was ten: perhaps the earlier date derives from an assumption that he was baptised as an infant.

I've mentioned this before, but genealogy =/= history. One good article is worth at least ten circular stubs.

All the accounts I have read state that Stephen was born a pagan (with the pagan name Vajk), and both Him and his father were baptized together at the same time, when Stephen was ten years old. The Catholic Encyclopedia says this event occured in the year 985.

I like the wikipedia experience. Stephen I was referenced from some places, I looked around, and created the nonexistant page. Later walking the other way around I found Stephen I of Hungary and quickly went to Stephen I to merge it. I was late, as Someone else have already merged it. :-) grin

Muahahaha! Now if we could find a nice picture of him or his crown.... -- Someone else 23:22 Apr 16, 2003 (UTC)


You know the problem: nearly impossible to tell the copyright status of the pictures. Like [1] for the crown and [2] (Photo of a sculpture) or [3] (robe, National Museum). grin 23:46 Apr 16, 2003 (UTC)
The photo of the sculpture should be OK as fair use; the copyright in the sculpture has expired, and the photograph itself is not a creative work. Just be sure to fill in the fair use rationale if you decide to use it. Of course it would be far better if a Hungarian user could take an original photo of the sculpture an donate it under GFDL. Securiger 06:55, 20 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Mother's name is Sarolt and not Sarolta. grin 12:00 Apr 17, 2003 (UTC)

The article seemed to say the "Book of Wisdom" meant the Bible, but apparently it's the deuterocanonical Book of Wisdom. Stephen's reference seems to be the passage "He pleased God, and was beloved, and living among sinners, he was translated. He was taken away, lest wickedness should alter his understanding, or deceit beguile his soul." (4:10–11) —JerryFriedman 00:04, 10 Feb 2005 (UTC)

What about the Hand? Next to the relic in Budapest there is an iscription stating that the hand was found intact on a battlefield 40 years after the battle. There is no mention about the rest of the body.

[edit] Vajk meaning Hero - or something completely different?

  • Vajk(meaning hero) - please provide reference to the meaning of Vajk -- Criztu 15:24, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)
    • actually I've always heard that it means "rich" or "lord", not "hero"... it is said to be a name of Turkish origin. On some websites they say the name in Romanian is Voicu. Does it have a meaning in Romanian? Alensha 2 July 2005 13:47 (UTC)
I don't know its meaning, but in Romanian, Voicu is an old and rather common name. bogdan 12:27, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
  • Vajk is generally considered to be derived from the Turkic "bay" meaning hero or lord (rich is probably supposed to be the same). I have never heard of another ethymology and this is the standard explanation in Western and Central Europe at least. Juro 2 July 2005 20:00 (UTC)
Hm. You mean "Bey"? I'd be interested on how /voik/ was derived from /bey/. They don't look very similar... bogdan 12:31, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
V can be evolved from B, if it could happen in Hebrew, then it could happen in other languages too. Although his mother was from Transylvania, and she might have known the name Voicu, I don't think there was any reason to give him a Romanian name. On the other hand, Hungarian language has been influenced by Turkish, and even on the Holy Crown the ruler of Hungary is referred to as "King of Turkia". I tend to believe his name was of Turkish origin. But, of course I'm no linguist and no historian, just a wikipedian :) – Alensha 21:25, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

If fact both Hungarian Vajk and Romanian Voicu is a name with Turk origin. So St. Stephen did not bore a Romanian name and the father of John Hunyadi did not bore a Hungarian name.

According to the official (legally accepted) Hungarian Given Names Register (see http://www.origo.hu/utonevtar/index.html?id=1095 in Hungarian for details), the origin of the name "Vajk" (enlisted as "the pagan name of king St. Stephen") can be explained in different ways. Originally "Vajk" means "fats" or "grease" [? possible compare with contemporary Hungarian noun "vaj" (="butter) which is related to the Finnish "voi" of the same meaning]. Another explanation can be a diminutive form of the Turkish name "Bay" (which means "rich", "having plenty of"): maybe Bay-k(a) > B/V change: Vajka > shortened: Vajk, thus meaning "small rich". Note: B/V transvolution, mostly in loanwords, is a known phenomenon in Hungarian, see the Roman Latin name of Savaria/Szombathely for example.

[edit] Hont, Pázmány, Nyitra

The ethnicity of Hont and Pázmány is not relevant here: according to any reliable sources, they were German, according to Slovak POV-pusher user Juro, they were Slovaks (I guess Jesus was a Slovak as well). Calling Nitra a Slovak christian center is anachronism: Slovaks have a national identity since the 19th century. Since Hont and Pázmány are figures of Hungarian history, they should be called as Hont and Pázmány. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 195.56.93.165 (talk • contribs) .

I am not the original author of that part. The rest of this comment stems from one of those typical Hungarian fashists (probably even organised) vandalising the wikipedia since several months. To any reader: just ignore any recent statements of Hungarian users in the wikipedia regarding anything concerning Romanians, Slovaks and related topics. Juro 03:16, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

??? – Alensha 13:14, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

I think it would be better if someone came up with an exact proof of whether these two noblemen were truly of Slavic ancestry and not just having property in a territory (of highly diverse ethnic composition) that was later to become Slovakia? As for Nitra, it was indeed an ancient Slavic Christian center in the Moravian Empire but I fail to see its relevance in an article about St. Stephen. The questions of Slovak ethnogenesis (national identity) is a bit complicated, with conflicting theories about that would go beyond the scope of this article. WiseGentleman 17:33, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] ...

"He often disguised himself as a peasant whenever he traveled and freely gave money to any poor people he met (in one account, Stephen was beaten and robbed by a group of beggars to whom he was giving alms, but he forgave them and spared their lives)." -- is it some kind of folk tale? does it belong in the article? Alensha 12:23, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

Adding Princes of Nitra Principality succesion box, Saint Stephen´s name in Slovak (He was a prince of recent Slovak Nitra) and paragraph about distinguishing historic Kingdom of Hungary from Hungarian/Magyar kingdom and republic in 20th century. Thanks for not deleting the whole thing, you are welcome to edit it though.

The purported "distinction" between the Hungarian Kingdom and Hungary is clearly out of place here, what is true that the whole Hungarian history is characterized by the continuity of the Holy Crown. Overemphasizing any Slovak connection of St. Stephen is clearly POV, especially if no direct proof is offered. The fact that Magyars were "less civilized" also needs some further clarification and proof in order to survive deletion.

[edit] Crown

I'm pretty sure the crown is NOT in the Parliament Building. I saw it last year (2005) in Matthias Church. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.7.108.185 (talk • contribs).

It is in the Parliament Building (it's never been taken anywhere else since 2000, not even for a few days' display). You must have seen something else. KissL 09:27, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The year 1000 is wrong.

It's 1001. Saint Stephen was crowned on August 20, 1001.

Not exatly, he was crowned in the first day of the new millenia. According to medieval customs this could be December 25th 1000 or January 1st 1001. August 20th is the day of elevation of his body during the canonization process.
It is most definately not 1001. I am in possession of a book called A Concise History of Hungary written by Hungarian historians and published in 2005. It says, "Stephen was crowned on the first day of the new millennium (25 December 1000 or 1 January 1001)." Furthermore, I myself was born in Hungary and lived there half my life where I learned the legend of Stephen I, which stated that he was crowned in the year 1000. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.227.95.52 (talk) 21:39, 21 January 2007 (UTC).

Christmas Day, 1000. I don't know what lies you're reading.

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