Talk:Steam clock

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An entry from Steam clock appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know? column on 13 April 2006.

Contents 1 Is the Vancouver clock steam-powered anymore or not? 2 This clock is steam powered to the best of my knowlege 3 Move bulk of article to Gastown Steam Clock 4 Much Better

[edit] Is the Vancouver clock steam-powered anymore or not?

If not, it invalidates a lot of the article... Killdevil 20:01, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

It's electric. The article should be edited to remove contradiction. It may be that the description of the steam motor should be moved into past tense. Nesbit 20:05, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

I thought there was a contradiction at first too but the opening paragraph says that the clock is now electric powered. The subsequent paragraph describes how the clock originally worked as the section headline reads.

The article can probably be slightly improved because it is more a description of a particular (former) steam clock and not a "generic" steam clock. co94 Apr 14 2006

It's much more accurate and less contradictory now (thanks folks). Some aspects of the mechanics currently in past tense are likely still operational, but driven by the electric motor. In any case, co94 is correct that the fact the clock is now electric powered makes it a poor example for the article. Nesbit 21:51, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

I've modified the description so that the present tense is preserved for the mechanism transfering mechanical energy (which I believe still exists), but the shift from steam to electric engine is clearly described. Nesbit 23:07, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Presumably the idea was to use the municipal heating grid as a "convenient" source of power for the clock, but the maintenance requirements (cleaning and oiling in particular) must have been pretty onerous so it's unclear how it's better than an ordinary clockwork machine. Since it still uses steam for its whistles, does anyone know where it comes from? Is there still a city-wide steam-pipe central-heating system in operation, or is there just a small boiler for the clock hidden away in a nearby building? PeteVerdon 01:02, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] This clock is steam powered to the best of my knowlege

I restored the original theme - that this is a steam powered clock; I saw it in operation June, 2005 (less than one year ago). I closely examined the mechanism through each of the glass sides and feel qualified (as an amature technophile and mechanic) to judge the motive power of this clock. The steam motor could be easily seen to be providing the power, with no indication of an electric motor, although one could have been covertly hidden in the mechanism, but this would be inconsistant with the placards placed within the case. It was claimed that extensive donations were made by a local pub/brewery to restore this clock to steam power as noted (click on the image for the bulk of the text associated with this device, both external bronze placards and internal pasteboard notices). I have no reason to believe that this device is not steam powered. I also observed and imaged an inlet pressure gauge reading 17 PSI, which is not of publication quality, but which I will provide upon request. Perhaps some diligent tourist could carefuly trace out the piping and even use an IR thermal imaging device to establish the true facts of the matter. - Leonard G.

Fair enough. Probably what happened was that decades ago the steam engine broke down and an electric motor was added. And then sometime after 2000, the steam engine was restored. I've asked the Vancouver library to look for documentation that can be referenced. Sorry for the fuss. Nesbit 01:46, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

By the way, it was clearly stated (I do not recall exactly by whom, but perhaps our Grand Circle tour guide) that the device had been converted to electicity and was now restored to steam.- Leonard G. 23:38, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

I called the pub/brewery corporate office Monday April 17^th for confirmation of the motive power of this device and the date of its restoration to steam, preferably with newspaper article dates. A response to a subsequent e-mail is pending - Leonard G. 17:22, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

As I say, I'm willing to go along with your claim, but it eventually should be verified through some authoritative published source to meet the WP verifiability criterion. Even a newspaper article would be ok, but tourist websites not. Nesbit 01:30, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

I've got more information from Ray Saunders in which he says that there are electric motors but also that the steam engine is used to raise the balls to the top track. I will add this and other details now. Nesbit 18:15, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Move bulk of article to Gastown Steam Clock

The article is supposed to talk about steam clocks IN GENERAL, not just single out one particular (no matter how famous) clock.

The main article should include the definition and provide a few examples (or even one example) as a link and short summary, but the detailed information about the gastown clock should be moved to somewhere like Gastown Steam Clock

Perhaps... but it's not as though there is a booming industry of steam clock makers out there. Ray Saunders made the Gastown clock first and has built most of the others noted in the article lead. I'd vote to keep all the steam clock information in one article, adding histories and technical information about other clocks over time. Each clock could have its own section. Not necessary to split it up unless the article gets too big. Nesbit 02:57, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

As the majority of the article currently at "steam clock" is about one particular steam clock, how about moving the bulk of the article to the title "Vancouver steam clock"? -- Infrogmation 04:03, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

I've just gotten an email from Ray Saunders, the steam clock maker. Apparently the article still has errors, some of which I'll correct now. I now favor keeping the Vancouver clock in the article, but de-emphasizing it in the lead. My reasoning is that people need at least one somewhat detailed example of a steam clock to understand what they are. Nesbit 05:00, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Much Better

Downplaying the Gastown Steam Clock makes the article better.

Still, considering that this article is called "Steam Clock" is the Gastown Steam Clock the best example? I mean, I know it is working, etc., but is the mechanism that of a "typical" steam clock? If so, the article should say it.

I think a short history section would make this article better too. Surely, steam clocks must have been popular in days of yore (Im thinking way before 1971!). Who made the first one? Where was it? Was there a steam clock company in business? What was the incentive to build the first steam clock? etc.

Overall, the article is still very centered on the Gastown Steam Clock and its creator. It does still seem that this article is more on a particular clock than a steam clock in general. There needs to be more information about "typical" steam clocks. co94 April 14 2006.

The type of information that you are asking for is not easy to obtain. Although there *may* have been one steam clock built by John Inshaw in 19th century Birmingham as a novelty, steam-powered clocks have never been built as practical tools. I can find no other information about steam clocks prior to the Gastown clock being commissioned in 1977. The Gastown clock appears to be a prototype for the Otaru and Indiana clocks, so in that sense it is typical. But these are novelties designed to attract tourists, so typicality is not really their forte. I'm sceptical about the claim that the gastown clock is based on an 1875 design because I haven't found any reasonable supporting documentation. In fact, the main weakness of the article is that it fails to meet WP's verifiability standard. Nesbit 20:28, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps it is unfair, but when I think of something as "steam powered" I envision the days of early industry with steamboats, steam powered cars, steam locomotives, etc. So when I read this article about steam clocks I, perhaps wrongly, figured that this was also an example of technology from a bygone era. If that is not the case, then that is fine, but I think other readers will make the same assumption.

If finding information regarding steam clocks is difficult then, again, this article hould probably be renamed or merged into something else. I hope not because I think this is an interesting topic befit an encyclopedia.

BUT I did see this entry from a local restaurant that claims that the Gastown clock is the world's first steam clock. [1] That throws whole new light on the subject! Because if the Gastown clock is the world's first then by default it is the prototype and the article can state that. The plot thickens! Perhaps there is a way to verify this website's claims..... co94 April 14 2006.