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[edit] Question about intergalactic gate bridge macro

I was wondering if its true that "gates from separate networks cannot be chained together by the macro". I haven't seen this mentioned in "The Return" part 1. My technical guess is it has to do with software differences between the gate (assuming there are any and assuming the statements correct). Any references? Wiki Fox 22:24, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure if it was ever explained why you can't go straight through, but it was definitely shown that you have leave one system and then enter the other. My guess is that it's because you would have to dial an 8-symbol address when you move between the systems (whereas getting out and travelling between two nearby gates from the two systems through normal space only involves 7-symbol addresses). Travelling from Pegasus to the Milky Way wouldn't work because only the Atlantis DHD has the appropriate crystal to dial 8-symbol addresses. I don't think we've ever been told if Milky Way DHD's can dial them, we've only seen the SGC's "McGyvered" dialing computer do it, so it might be possible to go the other way without stopping or it might not, but if you have to have a midway station anyway, you might as well stop there. --Tango 14:01, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
Or it is possible to go all the way and the station is just a checkpoint (stop wraith, signal Deadalus class ships between galaxies). Either that or a technical problem such as what I suggested in my first message. After looking at my copy of the episode and not seeing any external power sources my guess is the midway station is there either for issues I've mentioned or for power issues (if power initially obtained from the puddle jumper DHD was sent gate to gate it would dissipate over time). I'm pretty sure though that (assuming theres enough power) you should be able to go straight through, if it were a software issue in the gate you should be able to get around that with a macro but if its a technical limitation thats a little different. The whole gate cant be chained all the way thing appears to be an assumption for the moment. Wiki Fox 14:24, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
Some kind of software issue is very much possible. The problem I mentioned with 8-symbol addresses is almost certainly a problem, though. As for power, I think space gates get their power from attachments to the gates themselves, which probably contain a similar power source to DHD's. The jumper DHD is just a remote control, I don't think it provides power. --Tango 16:26, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
It's pretty much established that you need some kind of uber-power source like a ZPM or something similarly jury-rigged (as O'Neill did in "The Fifth Race") to dial an 8-symbol address (proximity in space makes no difference, since you still need to dial that "long-distance" code). Hence, the need for both the bridge and the way station, since the last gate in the Milky Way chain would have to dial into the Pegasus network, which it would be unable to do so without such a power source. (And if it did have such a power source, then the need for the bridge would be vitiated) --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 16:39, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
There are 34 gates between here and Pegasus, mitigating the need for a large power source. What does not having a ZPM have to do with entering the other gate network? If it were a power issue it could be mitigated using a small power source attached to the gates. If its a software problem a patch could be designed. Either way you would be able to go all the way through so the decision of not doing a full chain was probably made by someone on Earth, which means its not impossible to make a macro to travel through all the gates. Proximity in space is important as well. Farther distance means more power and the reverse is true. Chevrons dialed isn't too important either since the coordinate system can be changed. The macro handles dialing of gates, dialing 8 chevrons normally is point to point while the macro dials each gate sequentially. Wiki Fox 19:58, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
You're not quite getting the point: it's not proximity in space that's the issue. If it were, then it'd be easier to get to a "nearer" system than a further one, and that's never been the issue in the series: it takes the same amount of power to reach a nearby system as it does a distant one. The only problems they've had is when trying to reach another galaxy, so it's dialing the 8-chevron address required to go between "networks" where the power issue comes in. It's like trying to dial from a US number to a UK number without a long-distance service. It doesn't matter if you bring the telephones closer together; you still need the long-distance connection. To repeat: dialing into another galaxy's network requires a ZPM or equivalent. You can argue that it isn't logical, but them's the rules the series set up, and they've been largely consistent with them. --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 20:07, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
All of that I already know, which is why it probably shouldn't have been mentioned since I'm disputing the claim that you cant do a full link through the bridge (actually I asked if there was any bases for the claim). This would also explain the confusion caused by your other edit since it was only somewhat related to what I was talking about. Wiki Fox 20:27, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
Well, if it helps, the basis is simply that it's established (since "The Fifth Race" and reiterated in "Rising") that you can't dial an 8-chevron address without a ZPM. Perhaps that should be added to clarify the situation. --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 21:07, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
Article is still inaccurate, standard 8 chevron address's require a ZPM because of intergalactic dialing, the gates that are being used though require less power because there relatively closer and used sequentially. You don't need a ZPM to dial to relatively close gates from different systems, only for extra distance dialing. I'm mentioning that you can go all the way through and disputing the contrary thats written in the article. If I had the right tools and knowledge I could set up a milky way gate in the Pegasus galaxy that works fine, so long as I substituted the dhd symbols and coordinate system, and set a new point of origin. BTW there are mistakes in the fifth race summary. Wiki Fox 21:36, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
You don't need a ZPM to dial to relatively close gates from different systems, only for extra distance dialing. No, you're wrong. Physical distance has nothing to do with it; it's an extragalactic network that needs the ZPM. If you're asserting that it's physical proximity, please provide a cite for it, because that's never been the way the gate system works. --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 21:49, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
My source is the fifth race, I'll quote Carter and Daniel - Carter "Sir the computer indicates that the wormhole is leaving our known network of stargates, its going outside of our galaxy, far out." Jackson "Thats why the gate needed all the extra power." <--more power needed to dial outside galaxies which proximity wise are very far away. Wiki Fox 22:26, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
None of which indicates that it is possible to dial a Pegasus galaxy network gate with a Milky Way galaxy gate just because you move them close together. --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 01:20, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Theres no evidence the gates wont work together but there is evidence, perhaps proof that it will work with gates used in different galaxies (with preparation).

  1. Firstly the gates use the same wormhole principles shown by the fact you can use earth and Pegasas gates together, granted it was done long distance but this only affects power consumption and travel time.
    1. The earth gate is not the original gate used for intergalactic travel by the ancients. (just a note)
  2. My quote supports my reference to more power for more distance.
  3. The coordinate system can be modified, proven by Dr. Felgers Virus, Avenger (later modified into a Worm by Bal or baal or whatever his name is). Of course this is obvious already because of the macro in the first place which would have to target each gate using a custom coordinate system.

Theres no reasoning behind gates using the same physics but being used in different areas not working together with proper preparation (Software modification to gate OS, custom DHD's, custom DHD OS installed over a standard os, uploadable macro and maybe more options, some more practical then others). Wiki Fox 02:33, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

You must also take into account the fact that the Atlantis stargate and the Earth stargate are special cases because they are designed to link to each other (there is a set of Milky Way-design chevrons that link up with the Atlantis gate, and it has been stated multiple times that the Atlantis gate is the only one that can link up directly with the Earth gate due to a special control crystal). There is no direct evidence that Earth can dial any gate in the Pegasus galaxy even if they had the power. --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 03:27, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
Incorrect. The atlantian gate has an extra crystal, required to allow inter-galactic dialing. This crystal has been removed and reinstalled successfully in other gates (rodney mentioned this can be done, and that atlantis can only dial 8-chevrons because of this crystal, Season 1 I believe). The earth gate has a dialing program written with ancient knowledge that also allows 8-chev locks. This program can also be installed on other DHD's (seen in season 3 volume 2 episode 6 of SG-1 where its taken to an alternate reality and installed in alternate-alternate earths dhd)(I've been re-watching entire seasons due to being home sick) although modification would be necessary to install into standard DHD. Also while there is no direct evidence earth can dial any gate (which I fail to see how it is related to the point of my discussion) it can probably be done with very precise calculation, although I doubt this will be achieved easily if at all. Also the earth gate is not special it was brought to earth by a gould, Ra I believe, hence why I mentioned in my last message the earth gate is not the original one used by the ancients to dial atlantis (in season 10 episode named "The Pegasus Project" in SG-1 an ascended being says they traveled to the gate at the earths southern pole when evacuating atlantis. This was the second stargate recovered by the SGC in an episode called "solitudes" and was destroyed by Anubis using a weapon of apparent ancient design, maybe season 7 or 8 (teal'c was the one who said its apparently ancient design) leaving the one found in a dig in giza for use, rented out by the russians). Wiki Fox 04:13, 12 November 2006 (UTC)


No, no, no! The crystal is in the DHD NOT the gate. Besides, in "Home", McKay removes the DHD control crystal from Atlantis and installs it in the DHD on the planet, remember? That proves the that control crystal is in the DHD not the gate.

And as far as I understood it, the milky way and Pegasus gates require different macros because they're basically like different computer operating systems needing different programming. Thus the need for the midway space station. You exit one system and enter the next, that's why you can't take the trip without the midway space station.

Faris b 05:15, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

One, berating me for using gate and DHD interchangeably that one time, accidentally, is rude, second, we don't know if the OS's are different and if they are its a limitation that can easily be over come. Also the gates OS's are fairly basic so besides the coordinate system and maybe new failsafe mechanisms there probably the same, theres no reason to reinvent the wheel (programming term). Wiki Fox 05:42, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
All this is still speculative, though. Ultimately, all we know for sure is that the midway station is required and you can't jump from one network to another with a normal gate. --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 06:01, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
I disagree, the macro can go gate to gate, so a conscious choice was likely made by someone on earth to stop half way. The gates being from different networks doesn't matter and saying you cant jump networks is inaccurate assuming your talking in the context of this discussion, a network is a group of Stargate's so literally your correct but this is unrelated, i'm referring to the bridge which is a collection of Stargate's in a straight line that are traveled through sequentially. What we do know for sure is two macros have been used and there current set up requires stopping at the midway station. This doesn't mean you cant travel through all the gates though. For the moment I'll put that two macros are used and there current set-up requires a pause, this is in line with what is known about the bridge so far. The paragraph seems a little awkward now though since I used part of the original and re-wrote the other part but my concern was with current knowledge so.. Wiki Fox 07:31, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
McKay called the other half of the bridge of a network, I regarded a network as the large collection of gates in a galaxy so slight wording issue. I mention this because of my last edit, it doesn't sound right now that I look at it. Other then that what I wrote in earlier edits should be fine, thanks for rewriting the two paragraphs I edited Khaos and being the only active participant. Looks much better :) Wiki Fox 08:55, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

This is all speculation other than the simple fact that you have to leave the wormholes at the midway station and re-enter. We don't know if that's by choice or if it's a limitation of the gate system(s), so it's best not to try and put an explanation in the article. For the purposes of idle debate here (with no intention of it being mentioned in the article): We know you need lots of power to dial gates in another galaxy. We know you need 8-chevrons to dial a gate in another gate system. We don't know if those always go together. The distances within galaxies are orders of magnitude smaller than between galaxies, so it makes complete sense for the power requirements to be to do with distance only and not directly connected to there being 8-chevrons. The co-ordinate system doesn't make much sense anyway, so trying to work out if they're using a custom co-ordinate system for the bridge or not is just asking for a headache. For what it's worth, my personal guess is that you would need to dial 8-chevrons (which requires special software, either in the form of the program O'Neil wrote or in the form of the Atlantis DHD's crystal, we don't know if it's contained in regular Milky Way DHDs) to go straight through the midway station without travelling through normal space, but you wouldn't need large amounts of power - but that's pure speculation. --Tango 11:52, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Part of it is somewhat speculatory (not all) which is why I support the current detail in the article, for the moment the detail about the intergalactic gate bridge is in line with the current cannon. I agree with some of your points. For the co-ord system it is obvious they are using a custom or special version, or modified version, the chevrons wouldn't match any stars because of the lack of stars between galaxies. A macro is a program that expands on a program, the jumper DHD could be set up to dial an 8-chevron address or not but the important part is for the macro and DHD to make sure the gate is dialed and you go point to point to point to 35 more points. Theres nothing in the current cannon to prevent it and as I've said before if a limitation were invented it should be easy to overcome but since its merely never been done it shouldn't be mentioned, what we do know for sure and have seen in the show is two macro's are used and there setup is what requires a pause. Also 8-chevs are used for long distance and any full through macro that may be used could be set up to mitigate 8-chevs or not depends on how its setup. My final point is the article has whats been proven for sure in it (for the bridge), and with current cannon there is nothing to prevent full travel with preparation of the gates (if necessary). Article is for fact about this fiction so yet again I agree that this shouldnt be explained, and that the article is fine in respect to the bridge. may have been repetitive as i just woke up. 72.184.236.101 18:18, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Session time out don't know if I should just stick my name in or not Wiki Fox 18:20, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Another gate bridge system question

There might not be enough information avaialbe to answer these questions yet, but I'm posing them anyway.

Based on this article there are few or no orbital Stargates in the Milky way. Where then did the Milky Way gates in the bridge come from? Are they ground gates that have been modified with the power modules found on orbital Gates? Are they modified Pegasus orbital gates?

The article also says "he unstable vortex ("kawoosh") wipes the buffer clean to receive new information every time the gate activates." This is a reference to "48 Hours", in which it is quite clear that the kawoosh empties the buffers of a gate for both incoming and outgoing wormholes. How then do the people stored in the buffers of the gate bridge not get wiped out when the gate dials the next gate? (Rodney saying "store you in its buffer" indicates that you are not immediately forwarded, thus implying that the gates are dialing each other.)

66.254.241.199 00:39, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Once again prefixing it with the speculative caveat: The gates used in the bridge on the Pegasus side didn't just come from orbit, but from planets that are (or have since become) uninhabited. Presumably the Milky Way gates came from uninhabited planets as well.
As for the second question, I think the key might be in the "kawoosh" itself, or rather the lack of it. We've seen call forwarding abilities in gates - "Prototype" is the obvious example, where an "unauthorized call" gets forwarded back to its origin. The bridge macro might work in the same way, forwarding the call from one gate to another without activating the kawoosh that would wipe its buffer until the very last gate in the bridge from which the traveller emerges. --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 00:58, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
I can't remember the exact quotes, but they mentioned taking gates from both galaxies, and they mentioned retrofitting ground gates to work as space gates. As far as we know, there are no space gates in the Milky Way, so they must have found a way to retrofit them, otherwise they would have taken all the gates from Pegasus, and we know that isn't the case (they said so).
"Prototype" was my first thought as well, there must be some way to do it. We know you can modify a DHD (by removing the "master control crystal") to prevent the wiping, prehaps they've fitted some kind out automatic switch that disconnects the crystal at the right point in the process or something. Prototype had something fitted to the DHD that could easilly have included such a switch. --Tango 10:44, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
To be honest I don't remember them saying anything about retrofitting gates, or about taking gates from the Milky Way. Do you remember which episode(s) talked about that? FWIW I have seen all Atlantis Episodes, and only a couple of SG-1 episodes. What I do know is that it is indeed possible to retrofit Milky Way ground gates for space operation. It is even possible to use that gate in Pegasus, and dial back to a gate in the milky way. "The Pegasus Project" is where they show that. Of course, they did not add on the power modules to the dialing Space gate, as by operating it near the black hole the gate could absorb the black hole's Hawking raditation, as well as light being pulled inwards by the black hole's gravitational pull. Besides, The orbiting gate power modules would not even be sufficient for a very short connection (Which is possible with power far less than that provided by a ZPM, as shown in "Letters form Pegasus".)
Having not seen "Prototype", is it possible that Asgard, Nox, or Ancient (perhaps even Furling) tech had been used to simply establish a wormhole without the unstable vortex? That explantion would be simple, but does not cover the gate bridge because the Tau'ri do not have that technology. Also can I get a reference for that "master control crystal", so I can watch the relevent episode or at least read the transcript? Thanks. 66.254.241.199 17:27, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
I was thinking that the Pegasus side gates were orbital gates. I did however remember correctly that the gates had come from uninhabited planets. I'll have to look back on those previous episodes. 66.254.241.199 17:33, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

It was both actually. Both land-based gates with no inhabitants on the planet and orbital gates regardless since people without ships can't use orbital gates.

Faris b 19:45, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

"Irresistible" mentions retrofitting a Pegasus ground gate to use as a space gate. The very beginning of "The Return" mentions that gates from both Pegasus and the Milky Way are used - as we've never seen space gates in the Milky Way (at least, not ones that can dial out - the one near the black hole only received wormholes if my memory is right), it seems reasonable to assume they were also retrofitted. How exactly they did this, I don't know, but I would guess they removed the power source from the DHD and attached it directly to the gate somehow. --Tango 20:17, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

While they mention retrofitting ground gates in Pegasus in Irresistible, there is no indication that they actually did that. They could have just taken more orbital gates. They did not just take orbital gates regardless. Even if the gate is in orbit, the people may still depend on it for trade. (According to Weir). Of course, besides the Atlantis team, only the Wraith and Asurans are known to have ships able to use an orbital gate, and they don't seem likely to do much trading. But since Weir did mention retrofitting a Pegasus ground-gate, That does make me fairly confident that that is what they did for the Milky Way gates. As for how they retrofit the gates, perhaps they just super-glued a Naqahdah generator to the gate. --66.254.241.199 posting from 67.76.205.240 19:57, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Move "Other uses of the concept" section?

I was going to add a reference to C. J. Cherryh's Gate of Ivrel et seq. to this section when it struck me that:

  1. it's a mess;
  2. it sits awkwardly among the detailed discussion of the Stargate Stargate.

The proper (?) thing to do would be to rename this article Stargate (Stargate) (which does exist but redirects here) and have the Stargate (device) article, based on this section, discuss the concept in science fiction in general... Would that be too radical? If it is, then what would be the generic article name? Stargate (non-Stargate)? --Ant 00:40, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

How about merging it all into Wormholes in fiction? That's a nice generic name that covers pretty much everything mentioned in this section, and it has the advantage of already existing. Bryan 00:51, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
I agree with your proposal. But wait for one or two more agreements, or three days with no responses before you do it. Val42 01:06, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

Few other uses actually call them "Stargates" though. Calling an article on generic portals "Stargate" would be a POV title - it's saying the the portal in Stargate is the most important. If there's enough to say about portals in general that wouldn't end up just being a list (has anyone published anything about them which wasn't just about a specific one?), then you could move the section to a new article on Portals in fiction or something. --Tango 11:09, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

I definitely agree that calling all interstellar magic doors "Stargates" is inappropriate. Not so sure about "portals in fiction", though. "Portals" is more generic and would cover all sorts of other things from fantasy stories, for example. This isn't necessarily a bad thing but between this section and the stuff in "wormholes in fiction" there's already a lot of material so expanding the scope even more might result in an article in need of splitting anyway. Still, it'd be progress in the right direction IMO. Bryan 19:39, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
Portals in science fiction? That reduces the scope back to something manageable. --Tango 21:30, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
That works, though lowercased for Manual of Style reasons. :) Bryan 22:57, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
Agree: Part of the definition should be that there is a doorway (or other such) that remains in place and the persons/things teleported move through it. That would distinguish it from a tranporter/teleporter that has a device at one or both ends. It also distinguishes it from being that can teleport themselves from place to place or dimension to dimension. Val42 01:04, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ancient/Ori Stargate

i know than they haven't ever been seen but it's obvious than exist stargates in the ori galaxy. if not how the priors arrive to the milky way?. JDeus01 04:31, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

They have them but only have 1 or few of them seeing as how priors visit the various worlds through the ring transporters. Judging from the rings, the Ori stargates are probably white with pale yellow chevrons.

Faris b 04:56, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Looks like speculation, we can't put it in the article. There's very little information at all about what the situation in the Ori galaxy is like. Bryan 09:44, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
Well, in one episode in Season 9 (I think) they mentioned dialing the Ori galaxy and stated that they were being locked out. So, they must have at least 1 Stargate. And Supergates are technically Stargates, only bigger. Proven by a Season 10 episode where they were able to jump a wormhole from a Stargate to a Supergate. Sabre Knight 11:53, 09 January 2007 (UTC)
If we're talking about the episode Beachhead, I think that they were trying to dial the stargate on Kallana, where the Prior had set up a beachhead. The gate was being held open (somehow), so they tried dialing in anyway. We've seen the Priors use the ring transporters for (apparent) interplanetary transport in the Ori galaxy. We've also seen them arrive via stargates in our galaxy, but we've never seen them leave that way. We can't speculate, so we can only report what we've seen. Val42 03:45, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Mabye it was Season 10, I'm not sure, but somewhere, Carter said all attempts to dial to the Ori galaxy have failed, to which someone replied, "they might be blocking us". In any case a Supergate IS a Stargate, so we know they have at least 1. Sabre Knight 17:07, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

There are probably stargates on each populated world in the Ori galaxy, as ring transporters do not transport between planets. Even if they did use rings as the user interface for interplanetary travel, the matter stream would probably have to be sent through a wormhole (e.g. as stargate), as with the method Vala ended up in the Ori galaxy by. Jacobpauldyer 21:32, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Gate Addresses

Someone has put a theroy about the 7 symbols in gate addresses acting as a staight line set of directions between the destination and point of origin. This completely contradicts both the Movie and the tV Show and also contradiscts the image showing how it actually works which is right next to the section.

[edit] Merge of Wormhole physics (Stargate)

Support

  1. Bryan Derksen 20:02, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
  2. Morphh (talk) 19:15, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
  3. If there is anything worth merging. Otherwise, just redirect. --Tango 20:49, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Talk from Wormhole physics (Stargate)

Wormhole physics is not a fictional field of study! There are plenty of scientists who theorize about wormholes. This article talks about how Stargate descrbies wormhole physics, which is mostly fictional (but is taken from real scintific theories), but saying that wormhole physics itself is fictional is clearly wrong. Tobyk777 04:53, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

Can't this article be moved to Wormhole physics (Stargate)? That would seem to solve the problem you're raising. Metamagician3000 12:35, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
That would be fine Tobyk777 23:15, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
Done! Metamagician3000 04:40, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
I deleted the tag. The issue is resolved. Tobyk777 04:55, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
Good, and I've done some work on the opening sentence that might help a bit. Metamagician3000 05:06, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Articles for Deletion debate

This article (Wormhole physics (Stargate)) survived an Articles for Deletion debate. The discussion can be found here. -Doc ask? 23:49, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] MALP

User 86.131.187.106 commented about the MALP and the DHD. One has nothing to do with the other. The MALP is used for advanced recon to ensure the planet is hospitable, free of Jaffa or other dangers; that kind of thing. FrankWilliams 13:09, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

They also use the MALP to check there is a DHD, so they can get home. It's not relevant to the virus thing, though - Earth was protected because it uses an alternative dialing device (the "McGyvered" one), and is apparently the only gate with such a thing. The other gates with no DHD have no dialing device at all, so they didn't get infected by the virus, but they couldn't be used anyway. (This is partially speculation, but is based closely on what was said in the episode.). --Tango 22:56, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Right, also if the other gates have no DHD then they technially aren't powered up and thus non functional. Also, the virus affects the DHD itself not the gate per se. FrankWilliams 12:47, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, they can still receive incoming wormholes, so they aren't completely non-functional. I'm not sure about the "affects the DHD not the gate" thing... that's what I thought at first, and it seems to be what the episode says, but if that were so, why couldn't they dial out manually? The interpretation of the symbols must be a job for the gate, not the DHD, otherwise dialling manually wouldn't work, since it bypasses the DHD. I guess the virus infected the DHD, and then scrambled the symbols in the gates computers using the connection to the DHD. --Tango 14:25, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Dammit, where's Carter when you need her? :) She needs to explain this to us. FrankWilliams 14:30, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

If we had Carter available to ask these questions, we still couldn't put them here because they'd be "original research".  ;-)
The only hope that we have is that someone involved with the show will read this discussion, get it in the show then we can actually put it on Wikipedia. Interesting feedback loop, isn't it? Val42 04:51, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
It doesn't need to be put in the show - just a published statement from the writers (eg. in an interview) would be a good enough source for the article. --Tango 12:41, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
Answering the DHD/virus confusion, manual dialing isn't always a possibility since a DHD is required to compensate for interstellar drift, the gate itself doesn't have coordinate compensation, thus leaving only gates that haven't drifted too far from there last known coordinates dialiable. Also, Carter mentioned that according to her research she thinks only gates within I think 500 lightyears can get a lock (without a DHD) (mentioned in the episode with the Ashen) so that may have been a factor as well. Wiki Fox 18:10, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
  • get a lock without a DHD Wiki Fox 18:12, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
They've been rather inconsistent with that part of it. I don't think it will ever be possible to explain it, because the address system simply doesn't work - there aren't enough addresses to cover the whole galaxy accurately enough. (I've done the calculations, and even with the most generous assumptions, they are still orders of magnitude short, even accounting for an uneven distribution of addresses in space.) --Tango 11:33, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

How is that possible that they can only dial planets that are 500 LY or closer? For one, Chulak is over 2000 LY away and the Gamma site is 24000 LY away? Or was that statement only true back in season 5 and later they upgraded their capacitors or something? Because very few planets are actually that close to Earth.

Faris b 18:28, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

They can only dial planets within 500 LY without calculating the new positions using the computer program Carter wrote. Before that program was written, they could only dial nearby planets (like Abydos). --Tango 11:33, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] How many gates on Earth?

The article indicates two: the one Ra brought that was originally at Giza, and the Antarctic gate. The Giza one was eventually destroyed, leaving only the one. In "Rising", we see the Atlantis expedition leaving from Antarctica, but in "The Return," both Sheppard's new team and the Atlantis team go through the gate at the SGC. Did they move the Antarctic gate to Colorado, or is there a third gate? nmw 00:35, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

The second gate has a long history. NID had it, Russians had it, SGC (on loan from the Russains)... I can't keep track but I think there is currently just one (but there were two for a period. Morphh (talk) 01:29, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
  • The long histories of the Earth Stargates
    • Alpha Gate: Brought to Earth by Ra, then buried in Giza, as seen in Stargate. That one was beamed out to escape from the Beliskner in Nemesis, then recovered by the Russians as learned in Watergate, then loaned back to the United States in Redemption.
    • Beta Gate: Brought by the Alterans when they colonized Earth. Discovered in Solitudes, stolen by the NID and reclaimed in Touchstone, made into the SGC's Stargate in Small Victories, destroyed by Anubis' gate destroyer in Redemption.
  • Also, the gate which the Atlantis expedition used in Rising was the Stargate in the SGC, the Alpha Gate. Did I miss anything? -- SFH 01:40, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
    • I just watched Rising pt. 1, and it looked like they were leaving from the Antartica site--did they actually leave from the SGC, then? nmw 02:07, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
  • They left for Atlantis from the SGC. -- SFH 02:32, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
    • Ah, okay--I just went back, and noticed the shot of the Cheyenne Mountain tunnel. D'oh! nmw 02:47, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Error in "differences"

It says: "In the movie, each stargate has a unique set of 39 symbols, but in the series, each gate has the same 38 symbols (Earth's symbols based on Earth's constellations), minus a single point of origin symbol that is unique to that individual gate." This is completely wrong. Many times on SG1 it was shown that each gate has unique symbols and sometimes even a speedy retreat can't be made because Daniel hasn't figured out the symbols. What actually helps the dialing is the DHD. Despite being different symbols each corresponding one is on the same spot on the DHD thus allowing addresses to be dialed without interpreting the symbols.--Energman 20:55, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Can you give an example episode? The only time I remember Daniel having to work out the symbols in order to come home was the movie. --Tango 12:02, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
Unfortunatelly no I cannot. I distinctly remember an episode when they arrive on a planet and Jack tells Daniel to "start working on the gate". Daniel pulls out his notebook and starts counting buttons on the DHD. Perhaps you can find it somehow.
However while searching a few episodes I found a peculiar thing in s3 e19. Right in the first scene when the alien archeologist uncovers a stargate symbol but it's the point of origin for Earth. It's impossible for two gates to have the sames point of origin symbol on them.
I think the producers have a few stargates and DHD buttons that they keep switching so that they're not identical on each planet but this number is limited because of the budget. --Energman 21:52, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
I believe there are two gate props, one they use in the SGC and one they take to various locations to use as offworld gates. Sometimes they use the wrong one. I don't think it's significant. We can probably dismiss it as a mistake, or if you want an in-universe explanation, perhaps it was just on that offworld gate, and wasn't the point of origin. If there was only one potential point of origin on any given gate, then a) there would be no point having to enter it every time and b) it would be impossible to move a gate to a new location. For example, in the season 1 (I think) finale (or possible season 2 premier), Daniel Jackson uses a gate on a mothership to dial of alpha site while in Earth orbit and uses the Earth Point of Origin, that would only work if that gate had the Earth symbol on it. I don't know how they work out the point of origin for new gates, the only clue we have is from when Carter and O'Neil were trapped in Antarctica and Carter says (roughly) "I've never seen this symbol before, it must be the point of origin". Of course, I don't think the writers think about these things as much as we do... If you can remember which episode the "start working on the gate" quote comes from (or at least the season, or a vague part of the plot - I can work out what episode people are talking about from the tiniest bit of information, I've watched them all far too many times), I'll watch it again and see if it makes anything clearer. --Tango 22:59, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
We're wandering around in OR territory here, but it seems to me that the origin symbol is specific to the stargate rather than the location it happens to be at. So if we put the Giza stargate on a ship and took it to Chulak, we'd still dial at the end of addresses when using it. At this point a lot of other stargates have been transported hither and yon (the intergalactic bridge, Baal's attempt to set up an independent network, etc.) and it'd be a lot of trouble if they had to take care to ensure each of those had a compatible origin symbol for the new place they were being brought to otherwise. Bryan Derksen 01:06, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
No, definitely not. The point of origin depends on the location in space. It can be a different symbol on different gates in the same place, but the same gate it different places requires a different symbol. My example of Daniel dialing from the mothership using Earth's point of origin is a good example. The most recent episode of Atlantis also mentions the difficulty of dialling a stargate after moving it. The details of how the point of origin works have never been explained (and I doubt a consistent explanation is possible, there just aren't enough symbols to describe a whole galaxy), but the point of origin has been shown to change when a gate moves. --Tango 14:50, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
I makes little sense if it is the way you say. That means some stargates will never work in some parts of the galaxy. Also that would make the McKay-Carter bridge impossible to construct. Maybe we should stop thinking about this and just remove that "difference" because I don't think there is just one system that is consistently used throughout the show --Energman 15:51, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
As the DHD-virus they made (and Ba'al altered) shows, it is possible to reconfigure the addresses. I'm assuming that's what they did for the bridge, and what they'd do if they wanted to move gates around within a galaxy. --Tango 20:45, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
So can we really say for ceratain it's different from the movie version and that all gates have the original earth chevrons on them?--Energman 13:50, 13 February 2007 (UTC)


An Analogy If the stargate is a phone number and the DHD is a phone (Hardwired not cellular). Your phone at home has number xxx-yyy-zzzz. XXX being the area acode. yyy being the exchange within the area. zzzz being the number for an individual. So, if we if we pick up a phone and move it somewhere else physically all and plug it into another phone jack it now has the new number associated with that jack. What makes the "phone system network" operational is the fact that they are all using the same numbering system and they are parsed out by physical coordinates. If the Stargate networks were to work the same way then:

  • A. It makes sense that they all have the same symbols (Akin to all phones having the same set of numbers.
  • B. The place of Origin would have to change so one is no longer at that physical location just like if you move your phone to another area that phone number is no longer applicable. One would have to find the new spatial coordinates and that would be the new symbol of origin (Not to be confused with Origin of the ORI :) )
  • C. Like wise the DHD should also have the same symbols to match the gate's symbols.

Just my 2 cents. FrankWilliams 15:32, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

The analogy doesn't work very well. There is no point of origin with phones - you don't have to tell your phone where it is in order to make outgoing calls. Also, we know there are different symbols on different gates - the gate in Antarctica had a symbol Carter had never seen before, as I've mentioned above. --Tango 20:42, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Agreed the analogy is NOT 100% but it's the closest we have. Also, the phone has to have a physical jack which is tied to the area code (Point of origin. Tied to a geographic place) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by FrankWilliams (talk • contribs) 09:41, 21 February 2007.

From What I've seen of the show, the planet is assigned an address and a stargate has a unique point of origin symbol. Since the other 38 glyphs are the same, it doesn't matter where the stargate is, it just has to be. The 39th glyph is always a point of origin specific to a gate. Both gates on Erath had different orifin symbols, but they both dialed without any apparent modifications. Oh, and Daniel said "Once I realized I was close enough to use Earth as a point of origin..." So, That would mean the planet is used as the point of origin. Sabre Knight 17:00, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

The article states "In the film, the Stargate is easily capable of intergalactic dialing, as evidenced by the fact that the planet Abydos was in a completely different galaxy. In SG-1, Stargate networks are limited to their specific galaxy, unless a tremendous amount of power is used.". I think we should at least mention that Abydos in the series is in the milky way. The difference is merely the location of Abydos, not the capabilities of a stargate. 91.152.15.156 00:31, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

As far as I can see, the point of origin symbol doesn't matter beyond the DHD keypad. The information the gate sends to the network would be based on the gate's actual position in space, and would be calculated by the gate itself, possibly in conjunction with the correlative update program. Jacobpauldyer 21:39, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Inconsistency in gate travel time

The article mentions two times for the duration of gate travel: 0.3 and 0.03. Someone please fix the wrong one. --M.A. 00:08, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

Where's that from? The MALP takes more than a second, and the going-through-jingle is two seconds long! Repairing the Red Sun, Carter interrupted the beam after 6 seconds before her device would have arrived at the other gate... --FlammingoParliament 08:25, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
Ah, it's a flaw in the Ripple Effect episode. Contradiction solved (ie. shown in article) now. --FlammingoParliament 08:40, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

I think the mistake is in assuming the time is constant - I don't think that's been explicitly said anyway, so if we have evidence of different times, that would suggest the time taken varies. (Speculation: Most obvious guess is that it takes longer the further you travel, I'm not sure that holds up, though. It's not important, anyway, as it's pure speculation.). --Tango 13:11, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Travelling between a normal gate and a supergate

Up to "The Shroud" (after which this is not possible) there was a "funnel-shaped" wormhole from Pegasus to the Milky Way. Any theories what would happen if one were to travel through such a wormhole? This wormhole went into the supergate, so probably no problem that way. if one were to dial from a supergate to a small gate and send a large object (larger than a reguler gate) in, what would come out in the other end? A smaller object(shrinking), a core cylinder of the object (as big as the event horizon of the receiving gate), if so would the small gate rematerialize the rest of the object later(segments), lose the information(e.g. dump it in subspace), or maybe it would refuse to accept a transmission of an object it cannot materialize in one piece. any ideas?--Edgjerp 14:18, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

This would be pure speculation so IMO the subject is moot, anything we came up with couldn't be added to the article anyway. Bryan Derksen 19:59, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
We have absolutely nothing to go on with that. A similar question is what would happen if you stepped through the wormhole that was connected to every gate in the galaxy when they were killing all the replicators. It's never been discussed or shown on the show, so we have absolutely no idea. --Tango 17:18, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Actually, In one episode Orlin stated that the size of the Stargate disn't matter, so If the object is small enough, it would go through. As for a huge battleship, who knows. Note that it doesn't matter if you're traveling from the small gate, anyway, which was how they were connected. So, yeah, you were right about that, but who knows? Sabre Knight 17:04, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Purely speculation (obviously), but it might be that a gate would not dial to one smaller than itself. Also, all of the irregularly sized gates shown in the series are designed with built-in dialling protocols instead of a DHD, so this may circumvent the problem anyway.Jacobpauldyer 21:44, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Latin

Why not The Ancients called them Astria Porta (a Latin-esque word for "Star Gate"; in Latin, it would really be either porta stellae or porta in astria) ??? --FlammingoHey 21:09, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Probably because it's unsourced; as such it constitutes original research. — pd_THOR | =/\= | 21:26, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
Right ;-) Well, I did know THAT, what do you think about Longman's Latin Dictionary, astrium/stella? --FlammingoHey 22:04, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Bear in mind that the Ancients are not latin. Their language will be different. Jacobpauldyer 21:34, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Number of Gate Addresses

I made a minor edit to correct the number of possible gate addresses for both the Milky Way and Pegasus stargate networks. I don't have a clue where the original numbers came from, because they were off by BILLIONS. In the case of a hypothetical 9 digit Milky Way address, the total was off by more than a TRILLION. If you do the math properly (and windows calculator proves very helpful for double-checking the pen-and-paper method), the numbers listed previously are wrong, and I couldn't even determine how they'd been calculated. And I didn't even bother to calculate the possible numbers if the 8 and nine symbol addresses are capable of reusing a symbol one or more times; if they are, that drive the numbers up significantly further. It has never been established in the show whether the eighth symbol must be a unique one, or if one of the other seven can be reused. And 9 symbol addresses have never been established, period. Toroca 04:22, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Symbol names from Sateda

The names and numbering of the Atlantis glyphy are wrong. In the episode Sateda the following can be seen on McKay's Laptop:

Chevron 1 Image:AtlantisGlyph01.svg Arami 12
Chevron 2 Image:AtlantisGlyph21.svg Alura 3
Chevron 3 Image:AtlantisGlyph18.svg Ecrumio 6
Chevron 4 Image:AtlantisGlyph15.svg Salma 20
Chevron 5 Image:AtlantisGlyph20.svg Hochi (or maybe Rochi) 25
Chevron 6 (can't make out the glyph) Gilltin 32
Chevron 7 Image:AtlantisGlyph19.svg Subido 18

Could someone look into this, fill in the missing information and update the page? I only have a low resolution screenshot at hand, so take the info above with a grain of salt. 130.83.72.144 13:12, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

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